WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.160 Hey. 00:00:06.060 --> 00:00:15.330 Hi everyone I want to thank you for attending the department stakeholder meetings for the extended Producer responsibility program for packaging. 00:00:16.140 --> 00:00:22.220 I am Brian Beneski, head of the Department Sustainability Unit and will be handling the technical issues of the meeting. 00:00:23.210 --> 00:00:26.720 I would also like to introduce Elena Bertocchi and Jessica Nadeau. 00:00:27.030 --> 00:00:29.240 They are in the sustainability unit and 00:00:29.250 --> 00:00:35.650 The staff in charge of implementing the EPR for packaging program, they will be acting as the moderators for this meeting. 00:00:36.630 --> 00:00:40.340 These meetings are part of the stakeholder process initiated by the department. 00:00:40.470 --> 00:00:44.390 This is the second meeting regarding the topics of education and investment. 00:00:44.870 --> 00:00:52.140 This meeting provides an opportunity for the stakeholders to ask questions of each other regarding the various positions presented in the opening meeting. 00:00:52.150 --> 00:00:56.820 For this these topics and made available on these topics through the programs web page. 00:00:57.750 --> 00:01:02.540 We will make sure that everyone who wishes to make a statement or ask a question will get a chance to do so. 00:01:03.390 --> 00:01:08.340 This meeting is being recorded and the recording should be available within the next week or so. 00:01:08.830 --> 00:01:15.150 A transcript will also be made of this meeting and should also be available through a link on the programs website in a bit of time. 00:01:16.800 --> 00:01:30.350 The information from all the comments submitted and these discussions will be used as the basis for drafting rules that will be submitted to the Board of Environmental Protection as part of the formal rulemaking process in December of 23. 00:01:32.570 --> 00:01:34.190 Pardon me while I admit some people. 00:01:38.980 --> 00:01:39.390 Comments. 00:01:39.400 --> 00:01:42.100 Submittal is not limited to attendees of this meeting. 00:01:42.110 --> 00:01:54.120 The department will accept all comments for considerations that are submitted in writing, new or additional comments can be presented at any time on any topic through the EPR for packaging email address found on our website. 00:01:55.730 --> 00:01:59.970 We currently have four people who are registered to attend this meeting in person. 00:02:00.230 --> 00:02:19.370 Ohh, they're all here and approximately 50 from 3 people registered who will be viewing the meeting live as this is both an in person and virtual meeting we ask that those who wish to speak raise their hand and hold your statements until a moderator recognizes you and allows us time to make you. 00:02:19.380 --> 00:02:20.820 So everyone here is your questions. 00:02:21.940 --> 00:02:25.190 You don't have to be attending in person to ask questions or make a statement. 00:02:25.200 --> 00:02:39.650 Just use the raise hand feature and I will not turn off the chat, but I please ask people not to use the chat if you've got because it makes it as hard for us for transcribing and the this meeting and stuff. 00:02:39.720 --> 00:02:43.500 So don't use chat, but I'm not disabling it. 00:02:44.680 --> 00:02:47.070 I will now hand the meeting over to Elena and Jessica. 00:02:50.700 --> 00:02:52.900 OK, we're ready. 00:02:54.190 --> 00:02:59.760 That 2 pages of questions and we are looking to. 00:03:01.600 --> 00:03:11.430 Partition this meeting into 3 parts, the first part being education, second part infrastructure, and then we have a part on reuse. 00:03:12.590 --> 00:03:17.140 And yeah, these these questions are just to get the discussion started. 00:03:18.190 --> 00:03:30.360 And Yep, if you if you if you have anything to add to a question, Yep, just raise your hand and we'll make you a presenter and give you the floor. 00:03:30.650 --> 00:03:32.210 Or if you think we should be talking about something else. 00:03:33.180 --> 00:03:46.960 Yep, the discussion is not limited to answering our questions, so feel free to but Yep, share anything, even if it's not answering one of the questions we prepared. 00:03:49.910 --> 00:03:51.740 OK, so first section. 00:03:51.750 --> 00:03:52.430 Education. 00:03:53.670 --> 00:03:54.340 Umm. 00:03:54.690 --> 00:04:10.360 As general question, we're we're curious if it doesn't make sense to you all to make education funds available to municipalities or is this something the SO deep should do on a statewide basis? Umm. 00:04:14.210 --> 00:04:19.650 You know if if giving funds to everyone, how do you ensure you use for additional? 00:04:20.110 --> 00:04:21.520 Education. 00:04:22.550 --> 00:04:25.470 Would we want a synopsis of how funds are spent? 00:04:28.560 --> 00:04:29.380 By municipalities. 00:04:34.430 --> 00:04:35.090 Umm. 00:04:35.790 --> 00:04:37.050 Can we just start with the first one? 00:04:39.050 --> 00:04:47.690 Does anyone have thoughts on whether they think municipalities should be able to get some education money directly to be spent by municipalities? 00:04:48.680 --> 00:04:50.730 I think it's important to consider both. 00:04:51.540 --> 00:04:54.010 Sorry for folks in the teams world. 00:04:54.140 --> 00:04:56.450 It's Vanessa, Berry from Natural Resources council. 00:04:56.460 --> 00:04:59.530 Maine yeah, I don't know. 00:05:00.770 --> 00:05:10.750 I I think it's hard to determine a figure and I know that Sarah had kind of mentioned that $10 per person for or for educational purposes. 00:05:11.230 --> 00:05:21.170 Umm, but I think that you know if the SO wants to do something statewide, I think that that has a lot of value because you can teach to the readily recyclable list. 00:05:21.810 --> 00:05:22.320 Umm. 00:05:22.750 --> 00:05:31.320 But I also think that municipalities are already doing a lot of educational work and if higher dedicated staff people to do that work. 00:05:32.030 --> 00:05:48.550 And so I think that that also has value and I don't know if it's a total reimbursement or if it's or maybe it's in the reimbursement, where we're adding staff time, but some of that should be included if they're making those extra gains to educate the residents. 00:05:51.870 --> 00:06:01.840 So the way we were currently thinking about reimbursement would be including time, staff time on education into the municipal cost and then you're in immediate. 00:06:01.850 --> 00:06:23.880 So if you have, if you're sort of an outlier due to that extra education unity, not necessarily in to see that money, that's where I feel like it could be can present a challenge because yeah, is it, is it money that should be coming out of the reimbursement for municipalities or is it coming out of this investment pocket of funds? 00:06:26.350 --> 00:06:27.700 Yeah, that's a good question. 00:06:27.770 --> 00:06:46.220 And I feel like it's that proposes a challenge for municipalities who are doing a lot of the work, but may not actually see that work be reimbursed because it's not part of, it's not in the average cost for minicipal cities of similar solar size and disposition and stuff. 00:06:50.150 --> 00:06:52.080 Can you give some examples on what that person's doing? 00:06:52.090 --> 00:06:52.660 Uh, sorry, Andy. 00:06:52.670 --> 00:06:53.060 Go ahead. 00:06:53.850 --> 00:06:56.220 I'm not sure you can do both right? 00:06:56.230 --> 00:07:06.410 Like have it in the reimbursement formula and then have it pulled out of the infrastructure fund because then I think you start to lose the purpose of the infrastructure fund. 00:07:06.420 --> 00:07:20.020 If that's meant to invest in infrastructure or you know a larger, I mean the SO could potentially engage in a larger education campaign as part of their own objectives. 00:07:20.030 --> 00:07:34.120 But I don't think they've then would you could do sort of three activities reimburse for education fund, municipal education efforts beyond the reimbursement formula and expect to be at so to carry out a statewide education campaign. 00:07:34.130 --> 00:07:39.350 I don't see how those three things comport with an effective use of funds. 00:07:40.350 --> 00:07:45.120 It's gonna be in the reimbursement formula, I think municipalities have to count on that. 00:07:45.130 --> 00:08:01.350 And if they're going but beyond, like we've talked about on, you know, best practices and in the media, and I think that's, that's where it needs to live, if it's gonna exist outside of the reimbursement formula, then yes, I will need to plan for that with him a separate account. 00:08:02.160 --> 00:08:13.410 I don't think you can expect all three types of activities to occur with reimbursement special with education funds can be SO to conduct their own education efforts. 00:08:19.160 --> 00:08:26.650 What sorts of activities do we think of municipality would be doing with education funds if it were to get education funds? 00:08:27.690 --> 00:08:37.280 Umm, but we've heard over the years that 60% of the people get their information from the attendant at the transfer station. 00:08:38.190 --> 00:08:39.920 So you could do a nice TV campaign. 00:08:39.930 --> 00:08:40.780 I don't watch TV. 00:08:40.790 --> 00:08:41.680 You could put it in the paper. 00:08:41.690 --> 00:08:44.460 I don't read the paper when I go to the transfer station. 00:08:44.470 --> 00:08:47.510 If you want my recycling, maybe you got a flyer, or maybe a sign. 00:08:48.310 --> 00:08:58.680 I don't know how you decide who gets what, cause you don't wanna be giving out 400 checks, but if you decide, OK, every town could have up to $300 to do educating or something. 00:08:59.130 --> 00:09:19.940 That might help a few, but and and that's for like I would say, source separated strategies gonna look a lot different than a curbside recycling programs educational strategy because they have to, they have to reach households and that could be mailers that could be that could be tagging programs which are a little bit more strategic. 00:09:19.950 --> 00:09:33.360 But analyzing the material in the recycling and well, that takes a considerable investment, but education and outreach would be different for and that's doing transfer station versus curbside. 00:09:33.370 --> 00:09:33.730 That's. 00:09:33.740 --> 00:09:35.460 Yeah, precisely. 00:09:35.730 --> 00:09:36.800 I think it's a. 00:09:36.850 --> 00:09:50.960 It can be a little bit easier for a transfer facility to like if you have the staff to manage the compactor you know they can assess what's going into the compactor and educate residents as they're putting materials in. 00:09:51.150 --> 00:09:57.580 But yeah, curbside provides a lot more challenges because yoi put something in a cart and then it disappears. 00:09:57.660 --> 00:10:10.700 And so it needs a little bit more education, but it's harder to educate at the individual household level with the reimbursement rate be different though as a community with the curbside program versus a transfer station. 00:10:11.550 --> 00:10:12.020 OK. 00:10:12.150 --> 00:10:14.510 I mean, because we're talking now, maybe not. 00:10:14.520 --> 00:10:24.350 Maybe we're not talking about reimbursement rates, but that could be a factor if it's going to be included in the reimbursement. 00:10:26.940 --> 00:10:35.010 Different, different covers curbside versus transfer station probably soon, yes, so could reimburse differ. 00:10:36.460 --> 00:10:48.330 Sure, those types of programs, but I know we talked previously about read you know you know and and then communities that are of the same size, right? 00:10:48.340 --> 00:10:49.730 So that there would be those factors. 00:10:49.740 --> 00:10:58.010 So you would assume that it size factor would probably let it, you know, larger than size lends itself to her site perhaps. 00:10:58.020 --> 00:10:59.800 And then more apps. 00:10:59.810 --> 00:11:10.300 Smaller, more rural communities themselves transfer stations so that might itself out a little bit without having to create another Formula. 00:11:10.310 --> 00:11:14.550 But yeah, I see Sydney's got her hand up. 00:11:14.560 --> 00:11:15.880 So we're gonna go to Sydney. 00:11:16.910 --> 00:11:18.050 I'll make you a presenter. 00:11:26.120 --> 00:11:27.480 Looking down, she took her hand down. 00:11:27.490 --> 00:11:31.250 Ohh right there, just one down down below. 00:11:31.300 --> 00:11:32.130 Ohh, she got that. 00:11:32.140 --> 00:11:33.020 She had the topic. 00:11:33.120 --> 00:11:36.180 No, stop that. 00:11:46.460 --> 00:11:46.660 There. 00:11:49.860 --> 00:11:50.250 Is it? 00:11:50.330 --> 00:11:51.560 Is it safe to take it down now? 00:11:52.490 --> 00:11:52.690 You know. 00:11:55.190 --> 00:11:56.630 Hi everyone. 00:11:56.640 --> 00:12:10.960 This is Sydney from upstream, but really this comment is more just with my former PSI hat on and not really here expressing an opinion on this, but just thought it might be helpful to like talk about what some existing EPR programs do and how this is typically handled. 00:12:11.090 --> 00:12:15.840 I think both Andy and Vanessa have good points. 00:12:15.850 --> 00:12:27.240 There's typically like you need to think about as the question was raised like the differentiation between what you expect the SO to do and what the municipalities are going to be doing in terms of education. 00:12:27.250 --> 00:12:48.900 So if for example, there's a universal list of what's recyclable, and it's statewide, that probably falls naturally into an activity that the SO would run a statewide campaign on or something, because that's more of like a statewide bigger picture harmonizing thing, and the SO could say like, hey, here's all the stuff our members put on the market. 00:12:48.910 --> 00:12:52.050 And here's what of that is recyclable in Maine, right? 00:12:52.060 --> 00:13:04.630 As long as it's standardized, but then when you start to get into differentiation at the local level in terms of what folks collect and can accept, that's really more on the municipality to kind of do that level of granular education. 00:13:04.860 --> 00:13:22.390 And I think it is fair to say that though some of those costs that are maybe beyond the purview of of the SO in certain instances, so you'd have, you do kind of have to pick a lane when it comes to education, at least when you're looking at how the current programs around the world do it. 00:13:22.400 --> 00:13:46.930 But then there's ways to kind of try to have your cake and eat it too, so you can, you know, have the SO educate on, like I said, statewide things or kind of more harmonizing and big picture things and maybe, you know, maintain that list of what's recyclable on its website and all that and maybe even a good PRO in real life will have a website that includes a list of local recycling contacts. 00:13:46.940 --> 00:13:52.970 So consumers can just find their local person to ask them if they have a question. 00:13:53.560 --> 00:14:03.530 But then when at the local level you know you could have, you just could have that as part of the reimbursement formula and it's just and it does sort of work out to like a median. 00:14:03.540 --> 00:14:22.720 And it's just like you get some extra funding at the local level for anything beyond what the SO is doing that's different locally and or you could have that so set aside like a little pot of money that's just for education and maybe it's more of like a case by case basis, like, hey, we're doing something different over here. 00:14:22.730 --> 00:14:27.080 We really need funding for this to like communicate about this. 00:14:27.920 --> 00:14:30.050 Umm but yeah. 00:14:30.060 --> 00:14:32.650 So anyway, just this isn't really again, not really an opinion. 00:14:32.660 --> 00:14:38.600 I just wanted to share like kind of how this is, how it's kind of done in, in other other programs in case that's helpful. 00:14:45.050 --> 00:14:45.320 Right. 00:14:45.330 --> 00:14:54.850 So the the example we came up, a guy standing next to the curbside drop off or like tagging programs. 00:14:55.830 --> 00:15:00.500 I like contamination type education as opposed to. 00:15:05.210 --> 00:15:08.100 Yeah, and. 00:15:02.700 --> 00:15:19.560 Umm well, I guess they're kind of and yeah, because it's the tagging program that the motivation often for towns is contamination kind of being proactive about it and getting it before it goes into the MRF. 00:15:19.820 --> 00:15:32.760 But I think it's also corrections and behavior on items that can essentially, you know, make this stuff really hard to market and turn into new goods. 00:15:32.830 --> 00:15:33.070 Yeah. 00:15:32.990 --> 00:15:38.730 And it's not labeled, you know, that's that's labeled incorrectly, and people are putting it in there. 00:15:38.740 --> 00:15:39.860 I think it's really informative. 00:15:40.710 --> 00:15:41.140 Umm. 00:15:41.650 --> 00:15:42.100 Yeah. 00:15:42.110 --> 00:15:43.510 Sydney, go ahead. Sorry. 00:15:43.630 --> 00:15:45.860 Well, no, I'm just reinforcing what you're saying really. 00:15:45.870 --> 00:16:04.480 Like there are some EPR's that have done some funding for, like if you discover in the course of this program, there's a few towns where there's exceptional contamination or something, then you then there, you know this has happened in real life and there's some errors that have said, well, OK, we'll give some funding for, like, a tagging program here. 00:16:07.520 --> 00:16:07.760 Umm. 00:16:04.530 --> 00:16:14.360 You know, like a little bit more of like a targeted anti contamination approach, which is more I guess it's less in the reimbursement formula and more of like a set aside set aside funding. 00:16:14.370 --> 00:16:21.070 But again, like a strategic targeted way rather than like everybody gets $5000 a year like whatever, right. 00:16:21.800 --> 00:16:23.650 So that's an option for sure. 00:16:23.660 --> 00:16:29.320 Or you could say you know the SO has to have separate funding available. 00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:51.560 Umm for just anybody who wants it for things like a tagging tagging program or something like that, there's different options that I think what I've seen most in real life is some strategic targeted like like a pot of smaller pot of funds that is available beyond what the SO does at the state level or national level. 00:16:51.730 --> 00:17:09.930 But then get doled out on, like, kind of a case by case basis or like a need based basis, and then you could still, you'd still be getting, you'd still be getting a little bit of your staff expenses reimbursed, if that's the staff at a transfer station, they're not just doing education, they're doing other stuff. 00:17:10.020 --> 00:17:16.370 So like, that's just still part of the operational cost that's getting reimbursed, but it's not the entire cost. 00:17:24.040 --> 00:17:25.320 Yes and no. 00:17:25.330 --> 00:17:35.640 I would just think, too, the more money we put into education at the municipal level, the more responsibility we're like holding the the municipalities for. 00:17:36.230 --> 00:17:49.760 I mean differentiating between packaging and whether it's recyclable or not, I think would have more more positive like effect if it's coming statewide versus municipality by municipality. 00:17:49.770 --> 00:17:52.980 And that's only for those that are participating. 00:17:53.550 --> 00:17:57.870 So statewide will even reach those municpalities that aren't yet participating. 00:18:00.140 --> 00:18:00.390 Yeah. 00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:11.090 And then as we've we've kind of said that there's this, you know, kind of this bare minimum list that all municipalities who are participating in the program need to be collecting. 00:18:11.220 --> 00:18:22.490 I think the statewide effort can obviously include those are that's like I I think pretty clear including those materials and really educating broadly across the state. 00:18:22.600 --> 00:18:40.940 But but then again, there are gonna be some municipalities that are exceeding that readily recyclable list, and they're gonna need some additional educational resources at the local level to say, you know, we also take XYZ items to ensure that those actually are getting recycled at the end of the day. 00:18:40.950 --> 00:18:49.360 So I think there is gonna be some, I think some broad statewide outreach that the SO could could support. 00:18:49.550 --> 00:19:01.150 And then at the municipal level, there's going to need to be at least a small level of investment in education for anyone who's exceeding that, that minimum list. 00:19:02.510 --> 00:19:13.520 And then I think, I think I agree with Sydney, but being strategic about like the once we have data and I'm really excited, I know and our CM is very excited to have data on this. 00:19:13.530 --> 00:19:22.510 But once we have data we can make really informed strategic approaches to how we address contamination and specific communities when it's necessary. 00:19:25.260 --> 00:19:25.380 Yeah. 00:19:30.890 --> 00:19:39.840 But no, I don't think all municipalities need that level of intervention where they're going from house to house year round to educate residents on what's going in the bin. 00:19:40.050 --> 00:19:42.130 And eventually you can kind of pull back on those too. 00:19:44.010 --> 00:19:53.450 Another thing to possibly consider is that some municipalities are gonna need some resources on umm, you know, for people with English as a second language. 00:19:53.520 --> 00:20:00.940 So translated materials that it can be a pretty substantial investment for some communities that need that. 00:20:01.650 --> 00:20:02.130 Umm. 00:20:02.430 --> 00:20:03.980 And it's not it. 00:20:03.990 --> 00:20:06.560 It is a barrier to participating in recycling programs. 00:20:06.570 --> 00:20:27.540 For specific, I can think of a few communities that we've worked on this in the past, and it's been a it's been a challenge to get, you know, multilingual content related to recycling education, some have it, some don't, and that is something that maybe we wanna consider just for equity within the program. 00:20:27.680 --> 00:20:29.020 I would think that that would make sense. 00:20:29.030 --> 00:20:33.210 There would be a lot of efficiencies in having the SO actually do that. 00:20:33.220 --> 00:20:36.710 Yeah, yeah, there's that's definitely possible Ave there. 00:20:36.820 --> 00:20:43.920 But but yeah, having having that be considered in this too was language accessibility and. 00:20:50.220 --> 00:21:03.070 So one thing that we talked a little bit about, so earlier we were talking about if you've got a municipality that's say doing a good job with education spending extra on education when you get to your median and that might get washed out. 00:21:04.030 --> 00:21:34.740 And one way we thought of potentially addressing that and is you could require as part of collection collecting for recycling that there be a minimum amount of education that a municipality do, whether it's, you know, it could be like something like if you have a drop off program, there needs to be somebody there providing education and feedback on on the drop off. 00:21:35.010 --> 00:21:44.680 If you're a single stream community, there needs to be some amount of, you know, X amount of tagging or something that happens. 00:21:48.300 --> 00:21:52.120 Is that something that could potentially be helpful, problematic? 00:21:56.370 --> 00:22:05.940 Deferred to the municipalities to see what's feasible or not in terms of like from their investment, I know labor is a huge concern right now. 00:22:05.950 --> 00:22:16.360 And so if they have to hire an additional staff person, that could present a challenge, but I'm all for, you know, equal access to education for recycling. 00:22:16.370 --> 00:22:21.490 But but yeah, I could see there being a potential issue there. 00:22:21.550 --> 00:22:24.350 And then there's some, you know, like eco. 00:22:24.360 --> 00:22:38.230 Maine, for example, provide some educational services as part of their contract, so some members of a MRF like that might be entitled to education as part of their part of their program when they sign a contract. 00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:41.240 So I don't know where that fits into all of it too. 00:22:45.980 --> 00:22:47.670 Sydney, you're still a presenter. 00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:50.020 I think I saw you might have put something in the chat. 00:22:50.120 --> 00:22:52.470 Do you wanna actually speak to that? 00:22:54.580 --> 00:23:02.090 Ohh sure, I think it's just a little off topic from what you were just talking about, but I was saying yes to the translation costs. 00:23:02.100 --> 00:23:07.350 I mean, those are those can be a very big barrier and and it's very expensive to to get things translated. 00:23:07.360 --> 00:23:20.950 And that reminded me that I forgot to mention that another thing we've seen in real life is PRO's or the SO, creating kind of customizable outreach materials that municipalities could then choose to like customize and use. 00:23:20.960 --> 00:23:29.870 So for example, the PRO, the SO, you could say you know here is the list of everything in a state that is recyclable and that must be collected. 00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:34.730 But then a municipality, if they wanna collect more, could like add to that list. 00:23:34.740 --> 00:23:35.190 Right. 00:23:35.520 --> 00:23:45.210 But then that could already be translated into like 6 languages and they would just need to have the responsibility to like do their own customization piece. 00:23:45.410 --> 00:23:58.600 For that, I do think it's it's not fair to expect the SO to create custom materials for every municipality if they're gonna, if they're gonna get all be all different, right? 00:23:58.610 --> 00:24:03.280 But if there is that list, like sticking to that list, that that's that's very much within scope for this. 00:24:03.290 --> 00:24:03.960 So to do. 00:24:03.970 --> 00:24:11.680 And so yeah, I mean, like we've seen PRO's make it like, I don't even know the tech words are how they do this, but it's a customizable flyer, for example. 00:24:11.690 --> 00:24:13.620 Example and then they could go and be like. 00:24:14.090 --> 00:24:18.240 Here's the file that you can edit, you know, and you're on your own. 00:24:18.430 --> 00:24:25.190 And like add stuff too, and even just that starting point can like be really, really helpful for local governments. 00:24:27.600 --> 00:24:29.640 One would help with the standardization idea too. 00:24:30.630 --> 00:24:31.320 Exactly. 00:24:31.370 --> 00:24:41.510 Yeah, I'm going to make the materials more recognizable and is consistent as possible statewide, so that people are less confused, which reduces contamination, et cetera. 00:24:43.060 --> 00:24:54.720 Similar to like their resources, I think was it Mass EP that made umm like a suite of recyclings I I know that they're there's an organization. 00:24:54.730 --> 00:24:57.920 I don't know if it's the recycling partnership or Mass EP, but there was. 00:24:58.330 --> 00:25:08.920 Yeah, they made like the suite that anybody can use and it's very general, like don't bag recyclables like kind of best practices stuff, but also acceptable lists. 00:25:08.930 --> 00:25:10.700 And it looks really nice. 00:25:10.710 --> 00:25:15.110 So something like that that would cover all of the readily recyclable. 00:25:15.120 --> 00:25:20.230 But then have the add on materials that could be incorporated would be that would be great. 00:25:21.270 --> 00:25:33.320 I'm sure that would be really helpful to municipalities who may not have a staff person who's an expert in graphic design to make a sign to put at the transfer station or put out in a Mailer would be really difficult for them so. 00:25:36.230 --> 00:25:41.930 Like those like assets would be great and put those on a website that municipalities could kind of shop from. 00:26:03.330 --> 00:26:15.710 Any other thoughts on a minimal minimum education requirement for municipalities like a person that drop off or a for a certain amount of tagging? 00:26:20.690 --> 00:26:23.200 You municipalities that's or anyone? 00:26:26.030 --> 00:26:27.370 Harvey's your hands up. 00:26:27.380 --> 00:26:28.270 I'm gonna make you a presenter. 00:26:35.750 --> 00:26:36.040 Ohh. 00:26:41.520 --> 00:26:42.430 And still our Internet. 00:26:38.930 --> 00:26:43.630 Yes, I just wanna say that the more you do, you hear me? 00:26:44.540 --> 00:26:44.940 Yes, yes. 00:26:45.870 --> 00:26:46.440 OK. 00:26:46.490 --> 00:27:04.970 Just the more you uniform that the education can be or any of this can be the less confusing and the better compliance and the you know historically everywhere recycling late rates are not what they should be in my opinion. 00:27:05.990 --> 00:27:14.270 Uh, I think the kind of education you're talking about, uh, is a good on the practical side. 00:27:14.480 --> 00:27:21.480 But I also think in order to get recycling to work, education has to be much deeper than that. 00:27:22.540 --> 00:27:38.170 Uh, in my opinion it should be something that's stressed more in schools and so on, because right now the mindset of most people are a good number of people is they don't care about recycling and that's what really needs to be fixed in my opinion. 00:27:43.360 --> 00:27:55.940 We did have another question here about if there are other entities in the state other than municipalities that might have a role to play, potentially schools or or any other thoughts on that? 00:27:58.520 --> 00:28:06.270 I was curious, are there any interactions between the municipalities that do have sustainability departments? 00:28:06.280 --> 00:28:07.240 Are those sustainable? 00:28:08.770 --> 00:28:13.840 Like appointed people networking with each other. 00:28:13.850 --> 00:28:17.080 I know that town of Brunswick has one Portland. 00:28:17.090 --> 00:28:22.960 I can speak, I I guess from a from a past life about some of the collaborations that have happened. 00:28:23.930 --> 00:28:34.480 A lot of the sustainability coordinators within Southern Maine, obviously we know Portland and South Portland have a joint climate action plan and they work hand in hand on a lot of different projects. 00:28:35.090 --> 00:28:37.340 There are others within Southern Maine. 00:28:37.350 --> 00:28:39.720 I think there's a sustainability coordinator and Windam. 00:28:40.950 --> 00:28:44.160 There has been a position in Falmouth. 00:28:44.220 --> 00:28:45.580 There are new ones now. 00:28:45.590 --> 00:28:58.840 I think Bath just got a sustainability coordinator, but some of them have worked together on recycling issues in the past when when Ecomaine first piloted the tagging programs that they they offered back in. 00:29:00.120 --> 00:29:13.320 2019 Umm we actually they worked with the municipalities and municipalities, hired out the interns to do the tagging program and they were trained by Ecomaine staff. 00:29:14.390 --> 00:29:27.120 Umm, so they they like actually practice on the sort lines to learn the types of contaminants that they saw coming into the facility and then they they got like a robust training from the MRF. 00:29:27.590 --> 00:29:33.190 Then they went out into their individual municipalities, but they came back together for, like, biweekly meetings and, like, debrief. 00:29:34.120 --> 00:29:38.700 Umm, so they worked together on this stuff in the past. 00:29:38.750 --> 00:29:54.570 I'm sure that wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for them in the future, and I'm sure some of them could still have existing relationships on other projects as well, but it has historically been something that they've worked on together for waste management related issues before. 00:29:58.120 --> 00:30:00.810 I'm just gonna say guarding teaching in schools and stuff. 00:30:00.820 --> 00:30:11.550 I mean, anecdotally, I've heard so many parents who said they've gotten into a recycling because of what their kids learn, and I can speak from schools. 00:30:11.780 --> 00:30:12.830 Yeah, so. 00:30:18.430 --> 00:30:25.040 Yeah, it's a good gateway into the household as the schools and you start as young as first and 2nd grade. 00:30:49.100 --> 00:30:52.700 Gonna go ahead and turn Harvey and Sydney to. 00:30:54.940 --> 00:30:56.040 Spectators status. 00:30:56.600 --> 00:30:57.230 Thanks for your input. 00:30:59.640 --> 00:30:59.910 Ready. 00:31:03.250 --> 00:31:04.800 Yeah, I think so. 00:31:04.850 --> 00:31:09.260 So well, I got like I guess a little bit more on that. 00:31:09.340 --> 00:31:09.750 So if. 00:31:13.130 --> 00:31:17.990 If funds were available for municipalities from this. 00:31:20.230 --> 00:31:21.970 That municipalities had to apply for. 00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:32.530 Any thoughts on preventing that just from going to the municipalities that have the resources to apply for the funds? 00:31:33.680 --> 00:31:35.620 Because that's what sometimes seems to happen. 00:31:35.860 --> 00:31:45.600 If you get the same the same municipality that already has a sustainability director is applying for these funds and then the one that can't manage to have a sustainability director and really needs the funds doesn't get any funds. 00:31:46.600 --> 00:31:47.070 Umm. 00:31:47.310 --> 00:32:10.930 And I think just kind of echoing what Sydney had mentioned, I think having some sort of analysis of the municipalities and identifying which areas would be most strategic that may not always be the communities that have, you know and tax base that can fund a sustainability coordinator, umm and maybe sometimes sometimes they are. 00:32:10.940 --> 00:32:19.920 But I think I think also evaluating these, we should look at income, you know average income of residents as maybe. 00:32:22.130 --> 00:32:30.150 Prioritizing some lower income populations over others you know for doling out this money. 00:32:30.160 --> 00:32:36.930 I think from an equity lens, they're often the ones that aren't gonna be able to make those investments themselves. 00:32:37.580 --> 00:33:08.060 So if we can try to consider that in the decision making of who gets funds and who doesn't get funds, I think I think Sarah said in the last discussion that it's really easy sometimes to meet our targets by going to the have population, dense areas, more affluent communities, umm, and putting in that investment and you you get, you get the numbers you need, but we don't want the smaller, more rural parts of the state to get overlooked in that process. 00:33:08.070 --> 00:33:11.160 So they don't need to be factored in. 00:33:11.170 --> 00:33:13.500 I just don't know exactly the perfect way to do that. 00:33:13.550 --> 00:33:26.340 Yeah, I mean every some of the SO would actually do is to you know somehow have some time criteria that where the so is gonna be a more active take, a more active role with helping those communities that need it most. 00:33:28.020 --> 00:33:33.180 I'm going to try out something that people might not like it if I can spend. 00:33:37.210 --> 00:33:49.800 $10,000 in Portland and increase my recycling by 100 tons where I can spend $10,000 in a rustic county in a increase my recycling by two tons. 00:33:51.030 --> 00:33:51.660 What should I be doing? 00:33:56.510 --> 00:33:57.660 As a ton, as a time. 00:33:58.910 --> 00:34:01.650 You got to spend that money, Portland. 00:34:01.660 --> 00:34:08.930 Unless you the only way to towards the dollars in a particular area would be the turned out. How? 00:34:08.940 --> 00:34:13.550 That's justified in the statute either to try to program an environmental standpoint. 00:34:13.600 --> 00:34:14.090 Yeah. 00:34:14.160 --> 00:34:14.910 From a yeah. 00:34:14.920 --> 00:34:34.290 From a sustainable materials management perspective, you're probably gonna spend more carbon terms of trucks and this and that the other to try to capture those two tones then you ever would those, did you say I'm trying to debug tons, you're talking obviously in extreme like ridiculous example but. 00:34:39.030 --> 00:34:40.210 Yeah, I hear what I hear. 00:34:40.220 --> 00:34:45.050 What you're saying I think, yeah, I just don't want them to be overlooked. 00:34:45.060 --> 00:34:58.330 I don't think that it's necessarily gonna be, you know, either we put the money into this community and it has this high impact, it's going to meet all a bunch of our program goals and I don't, I don't think they're mutually exclusive. 00:34:58.340 --> 00:34:59.510 I think maybe we can. 00:34:59.520 --> 00:35:09.140 Do you know an investment where there needs to be more efficiencies and we need to create more, you know, pipelines to get the material to market? 00:35:09.450 --> 00:35:22.900 And yeah, I don't, I don't necessarily think that they're mutually exclusive, but I definitely think you know ROI is important and making sure that we're investing to get more recycling and more diverted tonnage. 00:35:22.910 --> 00:35:25.850 I think that's definitely a priority for the program, but. 00:35:27.890 --> 00:35:28.140 Right. 00:35:28.150 --> 00:35:36.670 And what you were saying about, you know, there are auditing requirements that we haven't, you know, made really clear decisions on yet. 00:35:36.680 --> 00:35:45.940 But part of that could be getting a better sense of where you have the contamination say, and then providing funds to that because a little bit of contamination. 00:35:47.010 --> 00:35:49.800 Umm, actually it does mess up everybody else's too. 00:35:51.100 --> 00:35:56.360 This I saw Neal's hand go up, so I'm gonna make him a presenter. 00:36:11.590 --> 00:36:12.140 Can't hear you. 00:36:18.820 --> 00:36:19.550 Still can't hear you. 00:36:29.940 --> 00:36:30.840 They checked the settings. 00:36:32.320 --> 00:36:35.910 Sydney says you're muted for your device. 00:36:35.920 --> 00:36:37.040 Doesn't look like he's muted. 00:36:37.050 --> 00:36:37.570 No it doesn't. 00:36:42.560 --> 00:36:45.330 No, I sometimes have issues with my headset on teams too. 00:36:46.420 --> 00:36:49.280 Can you get rid of the headset for a second. 00:36:55.880 --> 00:36:58.170 No, nothing has said nothing. 00:36:58.180 --> 00:36:58.850 Headsets fault. 00:37:02.660 --> 00:37:03.190 Call us. 00:37:04.000 --> 00:37:04.770 You can call us. 00:37:04.780 --> 00:37:05.310 Can we call it? 00:37:05.320 --> 00:37:07.690 Can you call us my work phone? 00:37:08.200 --> 00:37:08.630 Yeah. 00:37:08.680 --> 00:37:13.340 And call me 59202485920248. 00:37:20.510 --> 00:37:22.050 Anyone have anything else while we wait for you? 00:37:25.610 --> 00:37:33.740 But some of this thing I've been thinking about it from a regulatory structure and this is not going to show up in a rule, right. 00:37:34.620 --> 00:37:48.370 So all of this perhaps via a factor that the department would evaluate in contracting with an SO would be experience in reaching regions, you know, rural communities helping create effective. 00:37:50.060 --> 00:37:52.950 Thanking programs that things that that. 00:37:55.620 --> 00:38:08.730 At best are done more less in a regulatory requirement structure, but more as a perhaps it reporting yeah, requirement. 00:38:08.740 --> 00:38:16.840 That's considered in the RFP process versus trying to to spell this into to regulatory code. 00:38:17.080 --> 00:38:19.330 So this could be? 00:38:21.660 --> 00:38:28.010 Yeah, I mean, you could do other than say something when we just, yeah, discuss the rules for what the SO would do. 00:38:28.020 --> 00:38:35.950 We could say that that would be a good part, would be a part of the RFP, would be a the. 00:38:35.960 --> 00:38:48.810 SO submittal you know part of their plan would be to reach rural areas and implement that on with the department. 00:38:50.940 --> 00:39:15.680 It's actually our next question is, is there a need to specified any degree or sort of, you know, prioritize priorities, is there need to specify that in Rule it's so are there any things that we want to specify, but that's what should be done to use education infrastructure or what factor? 00:39:17.950 --> 00:39:20.270 But we're still in education at the moment, yeah. 00:39:25.290 --> 00:39:28.530 Neal back, OK, but we got Theresa. 00:39:44.280 --> 00:39:45.350 You're muted, Theresa. 00:39:45.440 --> 00:39:47.390 Do you need to unmute her or can she unmute? 00:39:47.400 --> 00:39:49.220 I think she's just she has unmute herself. 00:40:00.330 --> 00:40:02.120 Wonder if we're doing something that's making people. 00:40:04.310 --> 00:40:04.540 It's. 00:40:04.570 --> 00:40:05.560 I don't see any change. 00:40:07.040 --> 00:40:09.260 She's Neal's that muted and she is. 00:40:12.010 --> 00:40:13.280 Yeah, according to that, her. 00:40:13.290 --> 00:40:13.930 She's the one. 00:40:14.300 --> 00:40:14.830 Did that work? 00:40:13.940 --> 00:40:15.710 Muted. Yeah. 00:40:16.370 --> 00:40:16.710 Yeah. 00:40:16.750 --> 00:40:17.780 Sorry, that was on my end. 00:40:17.910 --> 00:40:22.260 I just moved to tag on to what Andy just said and I think that there's and sorry, my name is Teresa Connor. 00:40:22.270 --> 00:40:23.060 I'm with RRS. 00:40:23.650 --> 00:40:25.530 Umm, but I think there's a lot. 00:40:25.540 --> 00:40:34.920 There is some that sort of differentiation and what you want to put into the statue versus what could be left to be a bit more flexible between the PRO and municipalities. 00:40:34.930 --> 00:40:56.040 And I think particularly and I live in a jurisdiction with very mature packaging EPR program, but what you do see a bit is some need for different educational budgets when things particularly with the material list, if there's changes in the material list, I think there needs to be a lot of education invested into the system when those changes happen. 00:40:56.100 --> 00:41:07.780 And and then also you know during the last couple years of COVID or if there is something like you know you know a fire at a transfer facility and they need to pause the collection of a certain material type. 00:41:07.790 --> 00:41:20.170 There needs to be some flexibility, I think, in that education budget so that there's fees there when resources are needed or there's revenue there, I guess or a budget there when resources are needed in a system. 00:41:21.620 --> 00:41:32.210 So I think it's important for the statute to, you know, identify that, you know, the municipalities will likely what I'm hearing in this is that you know that that list of materials from the PRO is extremely helpful. 00:41:32.220 --> 00:41:38.730 And I know in my jurisdiction it can go as far as being modified to put in your local collection stations in addition. 00:41:38.740 --> 00:41:42.360 So with that standard material, but you can really customize it for your municipality. 00:41:43.080 --> 00:42:08.320 Umm, but then also just that that bit of flexibility for somebody that pro and I think there's also some built-in where I live that municipalities do receive a certain amount because that recognition by the program that there needs to be ongoing education year over year, it's not just point in time but at point in time there's going to be you know demands of the system that will require more education and outreach to citizens. 00:42:10.670 --> 00:42:14.540 If municipalities are getting a standard amount every year, how do you? 00:42:14.550 --> 00:42:20.100 Is there any umm how do you sort of assure that it's being spent on education? 00:42:20.170 --> 00:42:22.350 Is there any like follow up or requirement or? 00:42:24.240 --> 00:42:26.250 I'm not aware that there is and where. 00:42:26.260 --> 00:42:32.870 I mean, I I the area that I'm most familiar with is very much a PRO lead results based system. 00:42:32.880 --> 00:42:39.320 And so if there is that accounting, it happens between the pro and municipalities and it's not part of the public reporting. 00:42:39.600 --> 00:42:47.930 But I think it's the acknowledgement just that they do need to do something, whether that's the land like the staff at the land transfer station asking questions. 00:42:47.940 --> 00:42:53.990 Some of them have their own websites, but I don't know on the accounting and it's something I could look into and share with you if you like. 00:42:54.230 --> 00:42:55.640 But I'm not 100% sure. 00:42:55.650 --> 00:43:13.730 I just believe it is built in to the costing where they work directly with municipality and where they work, but where in my model the PRO also works directly with contractors, so some municipalities aren't engaged in the collection at all anymore and there I think the PRO steps in and does more the education. 00:43:15.600 --> 00:43:15.940 Thanks. 00:43:20.440 --> 00:43:25.180 I think Neal may have gotten is try may have gotten his. 00:43:27.580 --> 00:43:29.640 Like situation situated. 00:43:35.650 --> 00:43:38.550 Ohh Dang, no sound, no sound. 00:43:41.880 --> 00:43:42.410 Just call. 00:43:42.430 --> 00:43:43.040 You can call in. 00:43:43.950 --> 00:43:45.000 That's probably the easiest. 00:43:45.040 --> 00:43:45.620 Yeah. 00:43:45.660 --> 00:43:46.470 What's your number again? 00:43:46.480 --> 00:43:49.570 Brian 5920248. 00:43:53.010 --> 00:43:54.060 Actually I think something else. 00:43:54.070 --> 00:43:55.640 I saw something else pop up in the chat. 00:43:55.720 --> 00:43:57.190 Let's check that out and maybe I'll read it. 00:44:03.610 --> 00:44:04.560 Harvey Rem. 00:44:04.570 --> 00:44:09.220 I like Jessica's statement group Systems and has always been an issue. 00:44:09.230 --> 00:44:13.130 That if something is recyclable in one place, it should be recyclable anywhere at. 00:44:13.140 --> 00:44:15.500 This requires approved systems and technology. 00:44:15.890 --> 00:44:19.500 I also understand Maine is a large state with the spread out population. 00:44:19.510 --> 00:44:30.090 However, in coalition of state government research organizations including universities, industry and the general public, to develop better systems is needed. 00:44:30.100 --> 00:44:36.990 In my opinion, it needs federal support and really a national North American or even global approach. 00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:38.210 Yes, this is an ideal. 00:44:38.220 --> 00:44:41.760 But politics aside, this would help solve the problems. 00:44:47.590 --> 00:44:50.720 OK, gonna assume this is Neal. 00:44:52.710 --> 00:44:55.390 Umm yes indeed. 00:44:55.860 --> 00:44:58.200 Hey Neal? 00:44:58.980 --> 00:45:00.410 Yes, everyone here. 00:45:00.420 --> 00:45:00.620 OK. 00:45:02.460 --> 00:45:02.790 Yeah. 00:45:02.800 --> 00:45:07.980 OK, everyone online here might still gonna raise their hand if they can hear me. 00:45:09.440 --> 00:45:13.010 Yeah, well, yeah. 00:45:13.020 --> 00:45:14.710 Yes, we can connect. 00:45:14.720 --> 00:45:15.160 Great. 00:45:15.170 --> 00:45:15.440 Great. 00:45:15.450 --> 00:45:16.390 I don't think they can hear. 00:45:16.470 --> 00:45:17.430 Yeah, no problem. 00:45:18.470 --> 00:45:18.760 Problem. 00:45:22.500 --> 00:45:32.290 Would be taller, but anyway I wanted to say on the the question of if we have $10,000, where do we invest it? 00:45:32.620 --> 00:45:39.450 Should we give it to Portland for 100 tons, or should we give it to Arostook County for 2 tons? 00:45:40.120 --> 00:46:01.780 And I guess I this kind of dovetails into some of my yet unreleased comments, but I was, I'm proposing that there should be a priority for investment and that the priority the top priority should be expanding the program to all municipalities with the idea that we the in the present day. 00:46:03.210 --> 00:46:10.140 You know, there may be higher population concentrations that would result in better return on investments, true. 00:46:10.200 --> 00:46:35.250 But if you look at the long term where we wanna be as a whole program and that's for everyone to have access to it, the only way to do that is to prioritize expansion statewide and with the idea that as we expand, infrastructure will be built out there be more regional centers will particularly be able to collect more process, more like things will be better long term, uh. 00:46:35.670 --> 00:46:37.900 And so in in your question? 00:46:38.860 --> 00:46:40.490 Or should we give $10,000 to? 00:46:40.500 --> 00:46:46.090 I would say uh, first priority would be expanding to Arostook county. 00:46:46.150 --> 00:47:00.140 Who is potentially not in the program yet, and then after that I think no get the existing participating municipalities and investing accordingly. 00:47:01.980 --> 00:47:09.520 And then the third priority in the lowest priority would be just outside investors. 00:47:09.530 --> 00:47:14.610 People that want to run programs that also align with the goals or the program. Those are my thoughts. 00:47:17.240 --> 00:47:18.260 Neal, thank you. 00:47:32.120 --> 00:47:34.580 Now, I think Teresa's hand is up again. 00:47:34.590 --> 00:47:37.130 Again, so you actually already presented her so. 00:47:39.530 --> 00:47:41.100 Might not have put her hand down. 00:47:41.110 --> 00:47:42.130 So might not might not. 00:47:42.470 --> 00:47:46.160 OK, Theresa, you have anything more to say? 00:47:52.840 --> 00:47:53.390 Hands down. 00:47:53.400 --> 00:47:53.970 OK, great. 00:48:01.670 --> 00:48:05.820 Because something to say, yes, I just said another point. 00:48:05.870 --> 00:48:07.330 Victor Horn made resource recovery. 00:48:08.830 --> 00:48:34.470 I don't mind spending money on the big towns too, but like Neal said, the little towns, we're not going to know quickly if put in 10 grand into, say, Yarmouth is gonna pay off because the rates you know, we want to see them keep going up and we're not going to know for a while like if we spend 2 grand in Machias or Columbia Falls or somewhere, it started take a little while for the people to, you know, get the point. 00:48:34.470 --> 00:48:35.800 How many times you have to tell them? 00:48:36.110 --> 00:48:42.890 I would recyclable cardboard, recyclable until they realized, oh, that's recyclable, so it may be what, a year? 00:48:42.900 --> 00:48:50.130 Six months before we get results and then if there's a economy switch, people switch over to Chewy or Amazon. 00:48:50.140 --> 00:48:51.250 Now we got more paper. 00:48:51.260 --> 00:48:58.700 Because of that, there's so many factors to how what we're collecting is how do you decide this? 00:48:58.710 --> 00:49:00.640 Yes, that 10,000 did a great job. 00:49:00.650 --> 00:49:04.580 We did get 100 tons, but now next year we went down 50 tons. 00:49:04.590 --> 00:49:06.080 Is it because we didn't tell him again? 00:49:06.150 --> 00:49:08.300 Or is it because economic factor? 00:49:10.030 --> 00:49:20.230 Maybe the SO can be like the the lead and making sure some of the big towns get money and a few of the little towns, you know, maybe where there was a second rates are the lowest. 00:49:21.060 --> 00:49:27.130 It would be great if we throw money at them and then all of a suddenly that recycling rate jumped because it would say, hey, we did something right. 00:49:27.960 --> 00:49:30.260 But it takes a while to figure it out. 00:49:30.360 --> 00:49:32.070 That's what we did, is we don't know. 00:49:32.080 --> 00:49:34.030 Aren't are we gonna know? 00:49:34.040 --> 00:49:43.100 A lot more once we get a few rounds reporting in and we could use that reporting to aim education dollars don't help. 00:49:47.340 --> 00:49:50.090 Think you need this segment will be pretty telling too. 00:49:50.410 --> 00:49:58.380 As to what is not getting done, I don't know if it will be telling to what could get done. 00:49:59.710 --> 00:50:04.190 Umm, but what is it getting done and what is getting done as well? 00:50:04.200 --> 00:50:15.600 We'll get from the needs assessment, the bill set aside a certain amount percentage of for education and 2nd or do we know yet? 00:50:18.630 --> 00:50:32.750 That's really, that's actually another question that we have is we were thinking that it might make sense to organize the money such that you have more education money available. 00:50:33.750 --> 00:50:41.150 When the recycling rate is low, as the recycling rate increases, that there's less money available for education. 00:50:43.470 --> 00:50:49.140 Kind of speaking to Andy's like responsive comment, right, we want to have it response. 00:50:49.230 --> 00:50:54.510 We want to have like an interaction between those two, the recycling rate? 00:50:56.180 --> 00:51:02.820 Well, isn't it when the recycling rates up, you're gonna be compensating more? 00:51:03.320 --> 00:51:07.880 So your pool is going to be drawn down, they'll be less money in that. 00:51:08.080 --> 00:51:09.650 There will be less and right. 00:51:09.660 --> 00:51:12.450 And so we were thinking of having that be the education pile. 00:51:12.880 --> 00:51:15.560 So you know, and so have them inversely proportional. 00:51:15.570 --> 00:51:20.310 So then as that would happen, does that make sense or is there a? 00:51:20.720 --> 00:51:28.490 Is that not a relationship we can count on like I think that's a place to start, and we're gonna find out a lot more as we get more data, right? 00:51:29.170 --> 00:51:34.980 Umm, I think that's one of the important things is we just allow for more data to me because we're gonna get so much. 00:51:38.430 --> 00:51:43.960 Going to read Sydney's chat that says strongly agree you need to ensure that collection happens everywhere. 00:51:44.090 --> 00:51:49.810 You can't just meet the program targets by investment, vesting in population centers. 00:51:56.950 --> 00:52:00.260 But we also can't forget participations is optional, correct, right. 00:52:00.370 --> 00:52:02.940 So forcing a standard. 00:52:05.450 --> 00:52:07.730 For communities become can become very challenging. 00:52:08.800 --> 00:52:24.600 If you say you've got a hit, you know this this collection getting near the threshold when no mandate that anybody participates in the PRO can't come in, take service over right and recycling service. 00:52:24.610 --> 00:52:41.030 So there's a balance there and it's made more performance goals, but waits here, it's going to be family going to evaluate forced performance change when there's no obligation from a municipality. 00:52:42.870 --> 00:52:54.900 But even if the but even if the PRO was unable to come in, and you know if somebody's if if you've got a town say that they've decided that they don't think recycling is important, it's so much you can do. 00:52:57.600 --> 00:52:58.700 Where does the price collecting? 00:52:58.710 --> 00:53:01.960 And I mean it's it's it's not in our our law. 00:53:01.970 --> 00:53:11.320 But yeah, writing the level of service in every community could be a requirement, but that's not required. 00:53:12.110 --> 00:53:24.120 So that in a different framework that could be the requirement that you have to provide recycling service and every community in Maine, that's not the standard in the law. 00:53:27.450 --> 00:53:29.780 In that situation, the PRO couldn't choose. 00:53:29.790 --> 00:53:30.830 Yeah, we're gonna invest here. 00:53:30.840 --> 00:53:37.100 We're not gonna invest there to get our numbers out of this area versus that area, but that's not what's in the law. 00:53:37.110 --> 00:53:43.380 But neither neither is or no obligation for there to be outside of collecting by the recyclables. 00:53:43.620 --> 00:53:44.500 Much change. 00:53:45.050 --> 00:53:45.580 Municipality. 00:53:45.590 --> 00:53:45.870 It's either. 00:53:48.570 --> 00:53:51.960 The this is the challenge with what structures I guess. 00:53:59.960 --> 00:54:12.250 So we wouldn't, I guess what you're saying is we wouldn't want to look at maybe we would wanna look at where recycling rates are low and say let's throw some money there, but we wouldn't want to do that indefinitely because maybe that's just a sink. 00:54:12.700 --> 00:54:13.330 Money sync. 00:54:13.420 --> 00:54:15.220 You'd wanna see results, right? 00:54:15.260 --> 00:54:16.140 Yeah, yeah. 00:54:18.380 --> 00:54:23.970 Similarly with contamination, if you were to identify areas of need, you'd throw money for mean. 00:54:28.330 --> 00:54:29.420 But how long? 00:54:29.430 --> 00:54:32.660 I mean, you said a year, how long do we think you know what? 00:54:32.670 --> 00:54:39.140 What do we have any sense of of when you start to see result when you could expect to start seeing results? 00:54:40.540 --> 00:54:45.990 Well, I'm gonna read Harvey's chat here that says all good points, but this is incremental and it takes time. 00:54:46.000 --> 00:54:48.630 It will not happen in one year or even five years. 00:54:49.000 --> 00:54:52.820 It will be affected by supply and demand, recessions, expansions, etcetera. 00:54:53.260 --> 00:54:55.020 I think a balanced program is needed. 00:54:55.070 --> 00:55:01.380 It needs to produce enough recycled materials for other programs such as PCR content, to be successful. 00:55:01.450 --> 00:55:12.440 Actually, PRC post recycled content and then Sydney adds there should not be any funding for a municipality that is not participating in the program though, right? 00:55:13.850 --> 00:55:16.790 So if you're not collecting, you're. 00:55:16.860 --> 00:55:22.570 If you're just not, you choose not to participate, not collect the material. 00:55:22.800 --> 00:55:24.510 You're also not gonna be available. 00:55:24.900 --> 00:55:25.820 Get any education? 00:55:28.650 --> 00:55:29.090 Umm. 00:55:29.390 --> 00:55:35.540 If I wouldn't think education funding, we weren't necessarily thinking we were thinking that it might be a good place for some investment fund. 00:55:36.430 --> 00:55:36.810 I'm not. 00:55:36.850 --> 00:55:39.100 I wouldn't, but the other thing wasn't. 00:55:39.110 --> 00:55:49.730 Do you just go made the point about, you know, that's where you have the statewide anything that the SO is doing statewide is kinda by default give some sure. 00:55:49.800 --> 00:55:51.710 Yeah, some education to those areas. 00:55:51.980 --> 00:55:55.190 But yeah, I wouldn't think we'd be giving recycling education to it. 00:55:55.760 --> 00:55:57.010 I wouldn't make sense. 00:55:57.020 --> 00:56:04.210 I wouldn't think somebody thinks, well, hey, what's statewide education should actually be? 00:56:05.480 --> 00:56:09.860 They can, you know, this is out there and municipalities should use. 00:56:10.780 --> 00:56:18.910 That's maybe part of the SO statewide outreach is kind of a general understanding that this is available. 00:56:19.130 --> 00:56:28.400 It's designed to save municipalities money by reimbursement and you should take advantage of it. 00:56:34.350 --> 00:56:35.920 Yeah, I see that education as a tool. 00:56:37.430 --> 00:56:43.930 Say, Lewiston and the all around get that money through the statewide program. 00:56:44.220 --> 00:56:45.700 Towns that aren't recycling. 00:56:46.680 --> 00:56:50.980 They may look to their town leaders and say, hey, these other people are recycling. 00:56:51.340 --> 00:56:52.620 It looks pretty simple. 00:56:53.180 --> 00:56:54.290 They're getting money for it. 00:56:54.300 --> 00:56:55.250 Why are we just sitting here? 00:56:56.030 --> 00:57:01.810 So it could drive some of the lower performing towns into doing something. Yeah. 00:57:02.240 --> 00:57:03.130 Might be wishful. 00:57:03.140 --> 00:57:19.510 All of the nonperforming you know, if the pounds nonperforming and they're just, we're not recycling whatever and then they do see the neighboring towns are actually getting money because they are recycling, then that that would incentivize that. 00:57:22.760 --> 00:57:28.220 Then when you publicize successes around the state, make a lot of time. 00:57:28.670 --> 00:57:30.570 You know, these times that aren't participating? 00:57:30.580 --> 00:57:31.820 Yeah, scratch their heads. 00:57:32.310 --> 00:57:38.080 I mean, that could be actually like part of, but part of the, you know, couple of years into it, you know. 00:57:38.310 --> 00:57:45.560 So I was like the advertisement of like these towns got this money and this much money and all they did was collect. 00:57:46.350 --> 00:57:49.320 Yeah, the the recycling list. 00:57:49.330 --> 00:57:52.730 And they said this much on tipping fees of trash, trash. Right. 00:57:52.910 --> 00:57:54.660 The book don't you want that to? 00:57:54.960 --> 00:57:55.990 It's a matter with you guys. 00:57:56.000 --> 00:57:56.100 Yeah. 00:57:58.640 --> 00:58:00.310 So we're having a hold on message. 00:58:00.560 --> 00:58:01.150 There we go. 00:58:01.190 --> 00:58:01.680 We're back. 00:58:01.690 --> 00:58:02.170 We're back. 00:58:03.080 --> 00:58:03.940 Could written a song. 00:58:04.060 --> 00:58:04.950 Nobody missed us. 00:58:07.850 --> 00:58:08.670 Part of our band. 00:58:08.680 --> 00:58:09.490 You should get. 00:58:09.500 --> 00:58:12.470 Maybe we should pull these guys into the into the presenters. 00:58:13.190 --> 00:58:13.630 What's that? 00:58:13.640 --> 00:58:17.010 Maybe we should pull people into the presenters instead of just having the comments in the chat. 00:58:17.060 --> 00:58:17.310 Yeah. 00:58:17.510 --> 00:58:21.730 To make Sydney, I think that's probably useful, don't you think so? 00:58:21.820 --> 00:58:22.450 But, she added. 00:58:22.500 --> 00:58:24.570 So now I'm gonna make you a yeah. 00:58:30.710 --> 00:58:31.050 What's that? 00:58:34.840 --> 00:58:38.100 I think everyone thinks chaos. 00:58:38.110 --> 00:58:39.380 Well, I don't know in this group. 00:58:39.390 --> 00:58:41.300 I don't know if this group would have chaos. 00:58:42.310 --> 00:58:50.020 And then do you have anyone else who wants to add to the conversation in a back and forth manner, just raise your hand and I'll make you a presenter. 00:58:50.390 --> 00:58:51.370 Somebody in the yeah. 00:58:53.650 --> 00:58:54.950 You're still on the phone, right? 00:58:59.380 --> 00:58:59.520 Hello. 00:59:02.590 --> 00:59:03.280 No, no. 00:59:03.290 --> 00:59:05.920 I can see hang up should we said yes though. 00:59:06.160 --> 00:59:06.990 Yeah, I'm here. 00:59:07.040 --> 00:59:07.600 OK, I'm here. 00:59:11.960 --> 00:59:13.950 So sending you saw, I saw you chatted. 00:59:13.960 --> 00:59:15.420 Some things you want to like, talk about it. 00:59:17.550 --> 00:59:21.920 Ohh sure, I guess I was busted multitasking. 00:59:24.130 --> 00:59:33.700 I was a just trying to keep track of the so there was someone maybe was Andy was saying like, you know, you don't you don't wanna pour money into a like a sinkhole, right. 00:59:33.710 --> 00:59:34.850 You you wanna see results? 00:59:34.860 --> 00:59:49.420 And I guess I was trying to wrap my own head around that and I'm I was thinking, I guess outloud in the chat, but in my mind you're not really doing that the way this is set up because it's true there's no obligation for municipality to participate. 00:59:49.430 --> 00:59:55.620 But then, if they don't participate, they don't get any funding, including for education or investments like why. 00:59:55.770 --> 00:59:58.000 If you don't want it, then you don't get it. 00:59:58.090 --> 00:59:59.920 You know, I think that's kind of the setup. 01:00:00.030 --> 01:00:14.660 So that's the incentive to participate and we would hope that everyone will eventually, but I don't think that means I don't think that means you're pouring money into a sink as long as you allow time for results to to occur. 01:00:14.830 --> 01:00:21.880 I guess that's that's kind of what I was trying to get out of the chat, but I hear you that like the statewide anybody could theoretically take advantage of that. 01:00:21.890 --> 01:00:23.420 But like, that's fine. 01:00:23.630 --> 01:00:25.800 It's not like that's extra work for the SO. 01:00:30.620 --> 01:00:32.520 At some point, it's not the best use of your money, though. 01:00:34.870 --> 01:00:35.250 Well. 01:00:38.120 --> 01:00:38.700 In what? 01:00:38.750 --> 01:00:41.340 Like, I guess what's an example where what where? 01:00:41.350 --> 01:00:47.630 It's not a good use of money like to to do education investments into a community. 01:00:53.640 --> 01:00:53.840 Yeah. 01:01:05.740 --> 01:01:05.980 Umm. 01:01:06.060 --> 01:01:06.290 Umm. 01:01:06.530 --> 01:01:12.660 For education and because I mean, I think there are, I mean they talk about this, right? 01:01:12.670 --> 01:01:15.830 You have these spreads of people and there are some people that are always gonna recycle. 01:01:17.110 --> 01:01:17.390 Mm-hmm. 01:01:15.840 --> 01:01:18.090 There are some people that will sometimes recycle and there's some people. 01:01:18.100 --> 01:01:19.060 They're just not gonna recycle. 01:01:21.720 --> 01:01:22.650 If you had a pocket of. 01:01:19.800 --> 01:01:27.780 Umm, but I guess do you think that they're really, like geographically segregated? 01:01:27.790 --> 01:01:31.740 So there's just like a whole town of theoretical people that are just never gonna recycle. 01:01:31.750 --> 01:01:43.200 Cause I would imagine that's a pretty like even distribution and there's some people who are gonna be over achievers and every little tiny community and then some who are never gonna do it in every community and then like a middle ground that's accessible. 01:01:43.210 --> 01:01:44.360 But I hear what you're saying. 01:01:44.370 --> 01:01:54.240 Like I guess I I This is why I kind of lean toward the like, just have a do you have the SO do the statewide stuff anybody can use and customize that. 01:01:54.250 --> 01:01:55.580 That's very useful. 01:01:55.590 --> 01:02:01.680 And then in addition to that, just have a small pot of targeted education funding. 01:02:01.730 --> 01:02:09.080 If there's a need and it's not indefinite, it's like, hey, there was a really bad contamination and this area in this county. 01:02:09.190 --> 01:02:18.510 So we're gonna put do a two year tag and feedback program here and then we're going to measure the results and we don't have to do it again if it works, it works. 01:02:18.990 --> 01:02:19.210 Right. 01:02:18.520 --> 01:02:22.470 If it doesn't work, something else needs to happen, you know? 01:02:22.480 --> 01:02:26.310 But like yeah, I think that I think that would be probably pretty reasonable. 01:02:27.600 --> 01:02:27.870 Right. 01:02:27.880 --> 01:02:29.670 It's like an education project. 01:02:31.250 --> 01:02:31.410 Yeah. 01:02:29.720 --> 01:02:34.850 You do it and then you evaluate it at the end, and if it was useless, you don't do it again. 01:02:35.700 --> 01:02:36.020 Right. 01:02:36.700 --> 01:02:38.020 Wait, that's genius. 01:02:39.360 --> 01:03:03.290 Guidance to replicate across a different municipality, so if it like you collect data before and after as part of this like funding process like you know we need to know why this is needed here and the SO can be play a supportive role in that and they collect data to justify why we're doing this project. 01:03:03.720 --> 01:03:06.950 There's substantial investment there for a short period of time. 01:03:07.100 --> 01:03:17.770 Then there's a follow up and that can be shared with other municipalities who need to replicate something like that at the local level, yeah. 01:03:20.770 --> 01:03:23.400 Seem like or by the SO, right? 01:03:23.470 --> 01:03:31.900 Yeah, yeah, the SO can provide that as a recommendation for another community that may need it next time. 01:03:40.930 --> 01:03:43.850 So that does kind of lead us into getting feedback. 01:03:46.400 --> 01:03:48.720 Uh, we mentioned. 01:03:48.880 --> 01:03:55.990 We're gonna need a mechanism for stakeholders to suggest or provide feedback on potential projects or uses of funds. 01:03:58.590 --> 01:04:02.860 Umm should this be on going? 01:04:02.970 --> 01:04:05.060 Should we have a voting process? 01:04:06.610 --> 01:04:08.670 Uh, good. 01:04:09.970 --> 01:04:14.750 The SO develops ideas into projects that are shared in the annual report. 01:04:19.370 --> 01:04:24.180 So basically, the law requires that there is some input into, so the SO. 01:04:24.370 --> 01:04:39.260 We should have probably started with this before, but baby, where the SO is going to be proposing uses for these funds and there is supposed to be some sort of mechanism by which people can by which the SO accepts. 01:04:43.520 --> 01:04:46.790 Feedback or suggestions on this? 01:04:48.420 --> 01:04:57.110 And so that's what we're trying to think about is if there are certain things that seem like and. 01:05:03.500 --> 01:05:11.410 I I guess I kind of have like a follow up question because I in thinking about this. 01:05:12.140 --> 01:05:16.160 I also kind of compared it to the waste diversion grant program for the DEP. 01:05:16.950 --> 01:05:17.310 Umm. 01:05:17.670 --> 01:05:25.870 And I know that there's like a rigorous scoring process on how the DEP decides to fund or not fund. 01:05:27.080 --> 01:05:28.750 I don't know what that process is. 01:05:28.760 --> 01:05:30.730 I haven't applied for one before. 01:05:31.700 --> 01:05:32.590 You think it's rigorous? 01:05:32.720 --> 01:05:34.090 Well, I'm sure it's. 01:05:34.140 --> 01:05:34.530 I love it. 01:05:34.540 --> 01:05:37.280 Well, and maybe this is an area of opportunity, right? 01:05:37.290 --> 01:05:38.220 Like, where are the? 01:05:39.280 --> 01:05:41.050 You know, what does that process look like? 01:05:41.060 --> 01:05:44.150 Is it something that should be replicated or maybe not so much? 01:05:44.160 --> 01:05:45.750 Maybe it needs more. 01:05:45.920 --> 01:05:48.210 Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that it's not regress. 01:05:48.280 --> 01:06:05.080 No, but but I guess maybe using that as kind of a point of reflection and seeing if we can leverage something that's already happening in the state, because I think that waste diversion grant program has a lot of overlapping projects that would be relevant to the. 01:06:05.090 --> 01:06:16.300 SO once this gets started, I think there's a lot of municipalities that apply for funding that this would be applicable for the EPR funding structure. 01:06:16.970 --> 01:06:22.960 Umm so I guess I I'm looking at that and seeing could this be similar? 01:06:22.970 --> 01:06:23.480 Could this? 01:06:23.540 --> 01:06:38.870 How would how does it need to be different and that sort of thing and trying to not recreate the wheel here and use something that municipalities are already somewhat familiar with as the basis for how we decide what projects are worth funding. 01:06:38.880 --> 01:06:47.740 And at this time and which ones are not, what you're looking for a means to get feedback back to the SO right or input. 01:06:47.750 --> 01:06:55.330 I mean, for instance, one of our ideas was like, do you, as part of your municipal and producer reporting have a couple of questions at the end. 01:06:55.390 --> 01:07:00.420 That are like here are some suggestions for uses of these funds. 01:07:00.890 --> 01:07:01.850 Choose your favorite. 01:07:01.930 --> 01:07:03.380 Choose your favorite three. 01:07:03.390 --> 01:07:06.840 I mean, is that something that we think is useful input? 01:07:06.850 --> 01:07:11.030 Is that something that's people are going to be interested in providing input too? 01:07:13.510 --> 01:07:14.750 I yeah. 01:07:14.760 --> 01:07:16.180 You don't have to do it every year. 01:07:16.250 --> 01:07:26.190 I mean if it works you found an Ave to get good information, but if it doesn't work you try something else on some other years report. 01:07:27.660 --> 01:07:32.180 Umm but yeah, were you just looking for? 01:07:33.950 --> 01:07:44.800 From municipalities, for example, you don't wanna make it that complicated like you're working on a response for a proposal or proposal for RFP. 01:07:46.050 --> 01:07:48.460 Alright, I think right. 01:07:48.470 --> 01:07:49.660 How much effort do you require? 01:07:49.840 --> 01:07:55.910 Because it's gonna be an effort for them to fill out their darn annual report to begin with. 01:07:57.920 --> 01:08:00.430 So it keep it as simple as possible. 01:08:00.440 --> 01:08:02.280 Seems to be the role of in my mind. 01:08:05.250 --> 01:08:15.730 So who did the SO ultimately answer to someone that DEP that but yeah, so the SO proposes projects and DEP approves. 01:08:15.740 --> 01:08:22.930 Was there any like a steering committee of towns that would have any say of what the SO you said? 01:08:22.940 --> 01:08:27.680 They want suggestions, but is it just us town saying, hey, we want to do this? 01:08:27.690 --> 01:08:29.220 And yes, I said Nope. Sorry. 01:08:29.320 --> 01:08:29.800 No. 01:08:30.610 --> 01:08:32.710 Yeah, it said recycling establishments. 01:08:32.720 --> 01:08:33.520 It's producers. 01:08:33.540 --> 01:08:36.090 Oh, so that's exactly the question we're looking at, right? 01:08:36.100 --> 01:08:46.850 You can either in Rule say this is what we're gonna try to fund, or if you want more flexibility and you don't want deep to just be making this stuff up, well, we're gonna do this this year and this next year. 01:08:46.990 --> 01:08:58.830 Then you try to have some sort of mechanism whereby maybe it is like maybe it's a public comment period, maybe it's part of municipal report reporting, maybe it's a committee that reviews these things. 01:08:58.960 --> 01:09:00.150 What was the producers? 01:09:00.240 --> 01:09:03.080 It seems like they should get a say on that committee too. 01:09:04.620 --> 01:09:09.590 Maybe they see, like, hey, if we push this way, the program works better. 01:09:09.640 --> 01:09:15.130 It's, you know, as it stands in the law now, there's not an advisory committee that can serve in that. 01:09:15.140 --> 01:09:17.440 There's no I think you probably have to change the law. 01:09:18.190 --> 01:09:24.730 I didn't have to be support for it given where we are with things, but uh and I. 01:09:26.810 --> 01:09:30.550 The comment period perhaps that's, I mean that's that's gonna feel like this. 01:09:32.130 --> 01:09:32.920 Not exactly. 01:09:32.960 --> 01:09:45.720 Probably be as productive as having folks that yeah, that you know, are involved in municipal projects or you know producers that are closer to these things. 01:09:47.050 --> 01:09:52.430 Public comment periods bring out the lawyers and the regulatory folks versus necessarily the practical folks, so. 01:09:55.520 --> 01:09:56.090 I don't know. 01:09:56.100 --> 01:09:58.320 Maybe there is authority guys have under. 01:10:00.690 --> 01:10:02.650 Larger solid waste authorities to bring. 01:10:04.220 --> 01:10:04.470 Maybe. 01:10:04.480 --> 01:10:05.390 Maybe you could bring. 01:10:05.560 --> 01:10:07.130 You could bring an advisory together. 01:10:07.140 --> 01:10:11.960 I guess it just couldn't approve projects officially. 01:10:12.060 --> 01:10:26.090 That's that's there's a structure that's set up in other states where the Advisory Council has to be given the opportunity to respond to ideas and for the PRO and or the SO comes up with so well. 01:10:26.100 --> 01:10:29.030 This is the department that approves, right? 01:10:29.040 --> 01:10:29.400 Right. 01:10:29.410 --> 01:10:54.990 I mean, so you could say something like, you know the SO for as part of the process for presenting projects to the DEP to approve will oversee and steering committee, municipalities that will review and by or rank or provide input on those in the department will consider that as part of its. 01:10:55.810 --> 01:10:56.980 Consideration you for us. 01:10:56.990 --> 01:11:01.530 If you're fundings no, you you don't like that. 01:11:01.590 --> 01:11:03.620 I don't know if you got the authority to force the. 01:11:03.630 --> 01:11:08.060 SO to do that, I think you could force the SO you the statute says you could. 01:11:08.290 --> 01:11:22.200 The SO has to consult with stakeholders, including producers and different groups, but I don't think you can force them to create a committee because that's like a governance structure, that organization. 01:11:25.060 --> 01:11:25.650 You could. 01:11:25.700 --> 01:11:26.620 I mean, you could just. 01:11:29.410 --> 01:11:31.320 If DEP's get the final approval. 01:11:31.510 --> 01:11:32.480 DEP could get it. 01:11:33.560 --> 01:11:35.050 Uh group of people together? 01:11:35.060 --> 01:11:39.410 Or I mean, maybe you do it during the readily recyclable meeting we already have to have some sort of. 01:11:39.420 --> 01:11:40.130 Yeah, right. 01:11:40.740 --> 01:11:50.150 I mean, I'm also trying to figure out, Speaking of learning lessons from this process, how do we streamline any input that we need so that we're not asking. 01:11:50.160 --> 01:12:02.900 So one of the reasons to DEP didn't want the advisory committee to begin with is because it brings a lot of if it's official, it brings a lot of, you know, timelines and and and all kinds of official. 01:12:02.950 --> 01:12:14.620 Yeah, rigamarole, but it also, you know, requires, you know, the time, the volunteer time from all these entities that maybe do or do not have time to do so. 01:12:14.630 --> 01:12:16.460 And and like and. 01:12:16.470 --> 01:12:30.790 So to what extent if we're looking for input on a number of different things, we probably need to think about how can we get that input through the same, you know, or if we're gonna have people's attention once a year or are we gonna have it twice a year? 01:12:30.800 --> 01:12:35.270 Or is this important enough that people will pay attention and give input on a rolling basis? 01:12:35.750 --> 01:12:37.860 Not right, but like so. 01:12:41.610 --> 01:12:55.480 So I guess I don't have a solution here, but just the idea being that maybe a specific meeting for this purpose is that too much to ask or do we think that we'd get interest and participation in such a thing? 01:12:57.540 --> 01:13:02.270 Your participation in a meeting, but it feels like you're talking about it. 01:13:02.330 --> 01:13:15.460 Like if it's an infrastructure investment, you're talking about something that's specialized and probably take more than just a four hour meeting just to evaluate a years worth of infrastructure investments or education program. 01:13:17.180 --> 01:13:17.950 This, that and the other. 01:13:17.960 --> 01:13:18.330 Right. 01:13:18.340 --> 01:13:20.530 I mean it, it feels like you need a little bit more. 01:13:21.920 --> 01:13:23.520 I just my my opinion on on. 01:13:25.530 --> 01:13:30.740 I think you would generate the attention and interest that I'm not sure. 01:13:30.750 --> 01:13:38.670 Just like one meeting a year, will do that, you know, on the on the whole program, you know, like and you don't need to be. 01:13:41.570 --> 01:13:47.670 Dedicated to those aspects of the SO's plan or the work? 01:13:47.730 --> 01:13:48.290 Yeah, so. 01:13:51.340 --> 01:13:51.480 But. 01:13:57.760 --> 01:14:01.200 I think saying you're any board meeting going to be meaningful and. 01:14:01.350 --> 01:14:04.610 But understanding project. 01:14:09.270 --> 01:14:13.020 Neal got the comment you hear us on the phone. 01:14:15.980 --> 01:14:18.870 Open 11 second but to stand up by your stool. 01:14:18.960 --> 01:14:19.340 There you go. 01:14:21.660 --> 01:14:26.170 Yes, yes, but yeah. 01:14:29.030 --> 01:14:30.230 Feels like I'm bringing in an airplane. 01:14:30.620 --> 01:14:31.980 To me, you are, I've. 01:14:35.920 --> 01:14:39.520 Several several comments ohm. 01:14:40.230 --> 01:14:40.710 I think OK. 01:14:43.690 --> 01:14:47.850 Is on the the frequency and I guess I would. 01:14:48.320 --> 01:15:01.810 I would like to put it out there that we should try to move fast on an investment as fast as we can reasonably and not just hope it to a a once a year cadence, but allow for proposals to be submitted. 01:15:02.690 --> 01:15:08.760 You're around on a continuous basis and have a process that is able to move things through. 01:15:08.770 --> 01:15:15.560 Get approval and fun thing continually so that we can run to opportunities that are. 01:15:17.640 --> 01:15:34.890 A little more short term, you know, for example, you know, I mean a municipality come into the program, uh, before the tourist season in four months and they need $5000 for a bin and Baler and something like that. 01:15:34.900 --> 01:15:40.680 So umm, if we he would pick this process to very. 01:15:42.010 --> 01:15:49.550 Did you early process and we're going to miss out on some opportunities. 01:15:50.990 --> 01:15:52.680 Stuff can go to landfill eventually. 01:15:52.690 --> 01:15:53.650 That doesn't need to. 01:15:54.690 --> 01:16:03.780 Umm, I also think that another purpose of the of investment, you know, besides just expanding capacity is reducing cost. 01:16:05.200 --> 01:16:11.950 So obviously the the sooner that you can reduce cost, the more money that you're gonna save long time. 01:16:14.160 --> 01:16:14.410 Uh. 01:16:15.800 --> 01:16:19.740 Other thoughts were I wasn't sure. 01:16:21.220 --> 01:16:23.090 Uh, I know Elena. 01:16:23.100 --> 01:16:31.270 You had lots of comments about gathering inputs from all the stakeholders. 01:16:31.340 --> 01:16:52.710 I know a lot of your your background information or questions were about the the input to be gathered and I guess I was wanting to know if you could give me some examples because I didn't quite I understand what all these input that you were seeing would be and how it pertained to the process of the. 01:16:57.140 --> 01:16:58.880 SO for instance. 01:16:59.290 --> 01:17:08.070 And I mean it does the statute doesn't talk about exactly how the input will work so much is saying that there should be input. 01:17:08.620 --> 01:17:29.930 And so, I mean, some of the ways we imagined that could happen would be if the SO puts proposals in its annual report and then people comment on that annual report or if when producers and municipalities are providing their annual reporting, they had some. 01:17:30.980 --> 01:17:33.630 Ability to rank uh. 01:17:37.090 --> 01:17:39.220 Not even if not specific projects? 01:17:39.230 --> 01:17:41.690 Maybe priorities? 01:17:41.700 --> 01:17:52.070 Current priorities for, because Andy's right, if you're looking at specific projects, it's probably umm a certain level of depth that you need to get into before you want people making decisions on it. 01:17:53.760 --> 01:17:57.690 But you know, even just priorities, these are the things that we think are important. 01:17:57.700 --> 01:18:00.040 Are we're seeing needs in the program right now for these things? 01:18:01.980 --> 01:18:10.070 So I guess there are a number of mechanisms how you could get that feedback that we're just supposed to have some, I guess. 01:18:20.870 --> 01:18:21.550 Hold on. 01:18:21.780 --> 01:18:22.490 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:18:29.030 --> 01:18:29.280 Yeah. 01:18:29.290 --> 01:18:29.360 Yeah. 01:18:31.840 --> 01:18:37.530 Uh, I guess I would say that the priorities should be determined ahead of time. 01:18:39.730 --> 01:18:42.790 Laid out in the rules have agreed to by everybody. 01:18:45.170 --> 01:18:45.470 And then. 01:18:50.190 --> 01:18:57.050 Put together at runtime or during the proposal process would be for related to how to. 01:18:59.870 --> 01:19:03.990 Read these projects according to the priorities that we've already established. 01:19:09.540 --> 01:19:10.560 Does that makes sense. 01:19:13.010 --> 01:19:20.760 Umm, I feel like with word the plan is to complete this needs assessment and then we'll have identified program goals. 01:19:20.770 --> 01:19:32.730 I feel like those things should be weighed pretty heavily and what we invest in based on what's been identified within the needs assessment as things that need to happen in order for the this to be successful. 01:19:34.220 --> 01:19:44.840 And at that point, we're looking at project, sorry, right, like the needs will identify what projects are really essential to help drive the program forward. 01:19:46.550 --> 01:20:00.680 We don't know what those are yet there yet to be determined, but they'd be they'd be based in data and information that's been collected through the process, and that's something that's already kind of baked into this. 01:20:01.210 --> 01:20:15.940 So I I don't know if there's some way to incorporate that and make sure that those projects that are identified within the needs assessment or opportunities that are identified there, you know, kind of I think that starts us off on the right foot. 01:20:19.180 --> 01:20:19.630 Yeah. 01:20:19.640 --> 01:20:22.880 Make sure that investments address the program goals in some way. 01:20:23.230 --> 01:20:26.430 Yep, I like the priorities being. 01:20:29.010 --> 01:20:33.060 Static, but how long the ranking for projects? 01:20:35.520 --> 01:20:42.640 And those projects are already going to, you know, have baked in, meeting the meeting those priorities. 01:20:43.880 --> 01:20:44.780 OK, so. 01:20:48.240 --> 01:20:50.280 That more comments in the chat. 01:20:50.350 --> 01:20:53.230 So yeah, so I'm gonna read Harvey's comments. 01:20:54.070 --> 01:20:55.780 Umm, I might have missed them. 01:20:56.650 --> 01:21:06.650 So he's his first idea was float funding according to Formula yearr one and 2% with this police population of state population next. 01:21:09.000 --> 01:21:15.250 Thanks percent to be used for education and wide percent arrange to be used for system improvement. 01:21:15.350 --> 01:21:22.460 And then after that you might add some sort of participation factor to incentivize for continued improvements. 01:21:23.800 --> 01:21:25.220 Like as a starting point, yeah. 01:21:37.420 --> 01:21:46.350 So the review structure you guys already have some process for evaluating the the twice annually solid waste credits, right? 01:21:47.460 --> 01:21:49.480 That being something that could, that's not statute. 01:21:49.490 --> 01:21:51.550 That's right, that's not statute. 01:21:51.560 --> 01:21:51.870 Yeah. 01:21:51.880 --> 01:21:52.910 Yeah, that's just true. 01:21:52.920 --> 01:21:54.350 It's an internal process. Yeah. 01:21:55.270 --> 01:22:04.250 So when you've got something to to build off of to maybe have input into, it's made more for the infrastructure investment. 01:22:04.340 --> 01:22:07.270 Umm than predication. 01:22:07.280 --> 01:22:12.510 But I don't know makes those decisions or scored those projects so. 01:22:15.290 --> 01:22:16.260 Good society. 01:22:16.270 --> 01:22:18.160 Small elite team DEP. 01:22:20.820 --> 01:22:25.420 So so yeah, evaluation process for that. 01:22:25.430 --> 01:22:27.300 But yeah, that was something that I was mentioning too. 01:22:27.310 --> 01:22:30.340 I think the waste diversion Grant is something that already exists. 01:22:30.710 --> 01:22:32.200 If there's some way to. 01:22:32.450 --> 01:22:33.410 Yeah, it's very. 01:22:33.450 --> 01:22:49.010 I mean very simply that reviewing RFP responses to an RFP, they go through, they rank them and then they talk about them and they, yeah, the the there's a team that reviews them and ranks them and then they prioritize them and rank them. 01:22:49.020 --> 01:22:56.030 So yeah, Harvey's got his hand up and you have you're a presenter, Harvey. 01:22:56.040 --> 01:22:56.870 So go right ahead. 01:22:57.440 --> 01:22:57.790 OK. 01:22:57.800 --> 01:23:12.420 I just wanted to say that factor would seem to be that would be able to be a way to implement the all that you're now talking about about having priorities and you get people started. 01:23:12.430 --> 01:23:20.300 And I think if you have a formula like that, you kind of be both sides of the questions you're talking about. 01:23:20.310 --> 01:23:21.050 Who gets the money? 01:23:22.000 --> 01:23:24.020 And then the better that they perform. 01:23:24.610 --> 01:23:44.170 Uh against the priorities or whatever criteria you say, then that's a reward for for the municipalities that file that follow that and then you continue to help our try to help other municipalities, you know be incentivized to improve. 01:23:45.600 --> 01:23:48.150 But I think you gotta make it a statewide program. 01:23:48.160 --> 01:23:55.340 And I again, some people say you know which way, but I don't think you should leave any municipalities out. 01:24:06.460 --> 01:24:06.880 Thank you. 01:24:11.350 --> 01:24:15.470 OK, we exhausted our list under the education topics. 01:24:15.480 --> 01:24:19.810 So now we're gonna transition into the infrastructure topic. 01:24:19.820 --> 01:24:24.170 There's one last statements someone wants to make about education. 01:24:27.850 --> 01:24:29.270 Peter, hold on, Peter. 01:24:38.070 --> 01:24:39.340 Right, Peter, you should be good to go. 01:24:42.110 --> 01:24:42.760 Thank you. 01:24:42.770 --> 01:24:55.010 I'm just wanted to tie in again with one concept I brought up at the last meeting, which was environmental management systems. 01:24:55.360 --> 01:25:02.200 Again, when I hear the conversation going on here about first doing the study. 01:25:03.220 --> 01:25:09.300 Establishing your performance goals, then selecting projects. 01:25:09.850 --> 01:25:13.860 It sounds very familiar to that plan. 01:25:13.870 --> 01:25:19.510 Do check act process that exists with management systems. 01:25:21.090 --> 01:25:36.870 When I look at the structure of how you're regulations are set up, it seems that you're asking for a plan from the SO that would propose that selection process. 01:25:37.770 --> 01:25:43.140 How will they go about ranking the different projects they have? 01:25:44.880 --> 01:26:04.980 Well, obviously you want that ranking to be based on the goals that are established for the program, but I would think that once projects are selected, that selection process should be transparent, should be open to comment. 01:26:06.130 --> 01:26:10.260 Once that's selected, then you want to assign. 01:26:10.270 --> 01:26:15.980 Assign some pretty specific requirements to that in the form of targets. 01:26:16.910 --> 01:26:21.200 So who's going to be responsible for implementing that project? 01:26:21.280 --> 01:26:23.760 What's the schedule for that project? 01:26:23.950 --> 01:26:26.630 How you gonna measure performance with that project? 01:26:28.280 --> 01:26:31.340 It's critical that that process be flexible. 01:26:32.400 --> 01:26:58.270 So you don't want that all the find up front, but you do want that structure to find up front so that there is a level of comfort understanding what are the overall goals you're shooting for as well as how do I get involved in those selection of those projects from year to year? 01:26:58.930 --> 01:27:07.670 How is the SO and the people responsible for implementing menting the projects held accountable? 01:27:08.730 --> 01:27:10.780 So once again, I think there is a. 01:27:13.710 --> 01:27:35.200 There was well established processes out there for going through this type of selection, but I do think you want the flexibility right at the front to allow the SO to propose a specific process that they're familiar with that works for them. 01:27:38.500 --> 01:27:47.640 I don't know if that makes sense, but it again as I listen to this it it sounds very familiar with management systems. 01:27:48.890 --> 01:27:51.750 Well stated. 01:27:54.040 --> 01:27:54.270 Oops. 01:27:54.080 --> 01:27:54.360 Right. 01:27:56.990 --> 01:27:57.560 Thank you. 01:27:58.170 --> 01:28:01.050 And those processes you were referring to are, he gone, gone. 01:28:02.270 --> 01:28:12.400 I can hear that that's the process is you are referring to are are I haven't yet had a chance to look at the document you sent last last time, but that's what you're referring to, right? We. 01:28:13.120 --> 01:28:13.480 There. 01:28:14.190 --> 01:28:19.380 Uh, I'll just say they're common across the board with management systems. 01:28:20.010 --> 01:28:22.460 It's basically plan, do check act. 01:28:22.650 --> 01:28:31.280 It can be quality management systems, it can be environmental management systems, business management, system safety management systems. 01:28:31.750 --> 01:28:33.840 They all start with the same thing. 01:28:34.230 --> 01:28:35.590 Understanding what your goals are. 01:28:36.750 --> 01:28:43.150 Understanding what your requirements are, where are you in your needs assessment coming back? 01:28:43.420 --> 01:28:46.780 Selecting what makes the most sense to tackle this year? 01:28:48.020 --> 01:28:49.270 What are my projects? 01:28:49.340 --> 01:28:50.330 How am I gonna rank them? 01:28:50.340 --> 01:28:51.630 Come. Uh. 01:28:53.430 --> 01:28:56.790 Communication got the stakeholders involvement. 01:28:57.210 --> 01:29:24.050 Once you select projects you want to communicate out to the people who are involved in implementing them, they may not just be just the project holder, it may be a whole community that needs to get involved with implementing the key in it though, is because this is so new it's I think it is very important to maintain flexibility. 01:29:25.060 --> 01:29:27.940 You can have a broad goals. 01:29:30.310 --> 01:29:33.160 Project should have very specific targets. 01:29:33.170 --> 01:29:35.450 Very accountable targets. 01:29:36.450 --> 01:29:36.960 Uh. 01:29:37.850 --> 01:29:40.000 Understanding what the schedule is. 01:29:40.490 --> 01:29:42.360 How you gonna measure performance? 01:29:42.990 --> 01:29:45.580 What the cost is with this project? 01:29:45.970 --> 01:29:47.310 Who is responsible? 01:29:48.430 --> 01:29:56.130 That's where you can get the level of detail, but that changes again from year to year based on on conditions. 01:29:58.160 --> 01:30:03.150 But that's my $0.02 worth, just in terms of listening to the conversation. 01:30:05.460 --> 01:30:06.220 I thank you. 01:30:16.900 --> 01:30:17.330 OK. 01:30:17.380 --> 01:30:24.200 Glad we got that final comment for education topic and now we move on to infrastructure. 01:30:25.150 --> 01:30:35.500 So ohh yeah, if anybody has any anything to put in regarding infrastructure, you're welcome to do so. 01:30:35.570 --> 01:30:37.010 We'll get the discussion started. 01:30:37.020 --> 01:30:38.060 We have a few questions. 01:30:40.570 --> 01:30:50.290 One of them being, uh should should money for infrastructure be inversely related to the amount of packaging material? 01:30:50.300 --> 01:30:59.980 That's not readily recyclable, so as more packaging material becomes readily recyclable than there's less money to invest in infrastructure. 01:31:06.230 --> 01:31:09.520 This working to create that response. 01:31:11.570 --> 01:31:14.860 Is this really what we discovered? 01:31:14.870 --> 01:31:17.770 Something becomes in that process. 01:31:17.780 --> 01:31:19.100 I think it's a good rule of thumb. 01:31:38.960 --> 01:31:44.800 So we we got comments talking about novel or emergency. 01:31:46.230 --> 01:31:46.770 Umm. 01:31:47.800 --> 01:31:57.690 Like projects or investment, how would we define novel and emergency projects? 01:32:02.620 --> 01:32:13.240 So I mean, organizing and organizing privacy is something like, say, there's suddenly a bunch of contamination that needs to be sorted out or needs to be addressed in the system. 01:32:14.320 --> 01:32:19.420 You know you can and it's causing significant systematic issue that's probably an emergency. 01:32:20.890 --> 01:32:22.220 Wait for novel materials. 01:32:25.830 --> 01:32:35.350 I mean that that's like a lot of things can fit that category either based upon volume, material characteristics, fails. 01:32:35.420 --> 01:32:39.870 You know, just that could be kind of anything. 01:32:39.880 --> 01:32:58.880 I don't know if that's something you wanna define and the regulatory statute because it could be pretty wide and broad, but it would be at the SO with the departments approval and identified projects to go after this, right? 01:32:59.840 --> 01:33:04.230 I don't there could be some benefit, right? 01:33:04.240 --> 01:33:05.440 Outline like an emergency. 01:33:06.770 --> 01:33:08.950 Need infrastructure perspective. 01:33:11.460 --> 01:33:20.330 It it'll it'll be and with the department or with you never input after this and and eventually comes into this program. 01:33:21.400 --> 01:33:27.980 Uh, that you're trying to help identify things like that, you know, urgency. 01:33:29.440 --> 01:33:31.820 That could be it could be an existing. 01:33:31.830 --> 01:33:33.570 It can be rather precise, right? 01:33:33.580 --> 01:33:35.810 Like I've been suddenly, you know. 01:33:38.340 --> 01:33:47.350 I don't know material was breaking or or, you know contaminating their materials and it's happening systematically for some reason we addressed but. 01:33:50.050 --> 01:33:50.700 Novel. 01:33:50.770 --> 01:33:53.360 I mean anything can be novel and edge. 01:33:53.670 --> 01:33:56.000 And if you're trying to move it to the recyclable. 01:34:00.480 --> 01:34:03.700 Is novel someplace that funding should be focused. 01:34:06.140 --> 01:34:06.910 Umm. Umm. 01:34:07.920 --> 01:34:10.240 Only if it has a systematic impact right? 01:34:11.450 --> 01:34:15.350 Like if you sell and products and mainly right. 01:34:15.630 --> 01:34:17.080 It's not to be dramatic. 01:34:17.130 --> 01:34:18.110 Little thing can have. 01:34:22.740 --> 01:34:23.110 Deal. 01:34:23.120 --> 01:34:25.090 And Harvey, you're both on muted. 01:34:27.660 --> 01:34:28.080 Anything. 01:34:25.140 --> 01:34:28.120 So 10 products, I know to your point of like chasing. 01:34:49.720 --> 01:34:50.020 I don't know. 01:34:54.980 --> 01:34:56.730 Harvey has his hand up Harvey. 01:34:56.770 --> 01:34:59.050 Ohh you could go ahead and speak Go Harvey. 01:34:59.380 --> 01:34:59.730 Yeah. 01:34:59.740 --> 01:35:05.720 I just think innovative within the relationship of what your goals are. 01:35:06.780 --> 01:35:08.710 Should be pretty broad. 01:35:09.520 --> 01:35:11.420 It also includes processing. 01:35:12.210 --> 01:35:13.800 Uh materials. 01:35:15.520 --> 01:35:22.990 Are there innovations as long as related to meeting the goals of of your program? 01:35:26.700 --> 01:35:29.580 Any thoughts on innovative versus proven? 01:35:35.480 --> 01:35:38.330 In terms of what's a better place for the money to go? 01:35:39.320 --> 01:35:41.380 It's asking for every but anyone I guess. 01:35:49.550 --> 01:35:51.880 Or not Sydney's got her hand ip. 01:35:54.220 --> 01:35:55.640 Sydney, OK. 01:35:55.640 --> 01:35:58.310 Yes, I I just have a quick clarifying question. 01:35:58.320 --> 01:36:16.040 So is we're talking about money that the SO gives to municipalities to invest in infrastructure or are we just talking about money that the SO directly invests into infrastructure throughout the state and has to get approved by DEP? 01:36:18.240 --> 01:36:29.590 Sorry, we're just generally talking about the fact that there is money for infrastructure that right the SO is going to somehow it could be either it could be any of those things. 01:36:30.380 --> 01:36:30.840 Gotcha. 01:36:30.600 --> 01:36:39.000 But yes, the the law says that the SO will suggest uses to DEP and DEP. 01:36:39.010 --> 01:36:39.580 Will approve. 01:36:40.720 --> 01:36:41.240 Right. 01:36:41.280 --> 01:36:48.490 And so I guess in that vein, like emergency, as Andy said, I mean you could have any number of emergencies. 01:36:48.580 --> 01:36:55.100 When I hear emergency, I think of like you just need to have funds on hand when there's a I don't know. 01:36:55.110 --> 01:37:01.140 There's like a freak hurricane and the transfer station is flooded and now you need a new. 01:37:02.580 --> 01:37:05.010 Thingy like or something you know? Right? 01:37:05.020 --> 01:37:06.370 Like, that's an emergency. 01:37:06.420 --> 01:37:12.710 Like my sorter broke and I can't recycle anything now, like, that's an emergency. Right? 01:37:12.770 --> 01:37:14.450 And so there has to be funding set aside. 01:37:14.460 --> 01:37:28.220 But I think that would still probably fall under like it's not really operational expenses because it's like beyond the day-to-day cost of just operating a transportation or a MRF it's more of like a we need some pot, some rainy day funding. 01:37:28.540 --> 01:37:32.050 But the SO can kind of plug in to make sure the system keeps chugging along. 01:37:32.060 --> 01:37:40.050 So that's what I think of when I hear emergency and you're just gonna have to do that to be, like, a fiscally responsible the SO. 01:37:40.260 --> 01:37:43.050 But uh, then novel. 01:37:43.060 --> 01:37:50.080 I think you need to be careful with who's deciding that it's novel and and how. 01:37:50.090 --> 01:37:50.320 What? 01:37:50.330 --> 01:38:07.520 What that process looks like and what the approvals look like, because if you just have one municipality or a group of municipalities that decides like we wanna, we just really wanna be able to in our county specifically recycle this random type of package. 01:38:07.530 --> 01:38:11.840 Like just for argument sake, let's just say like iPhone cases. 01:38:11.850 --> 01:38:19.580 I know that's not a covered material, but just let's roll with it like we really want to be able to recycle iPhone cases here, and that's a novel material. 01:38:19.590 --> 01:38:22.640 But we feel like it's gonna have a huge impact in our area. 01:38:22.650 --> 01:38:25.740 Like, is that really a good use of funds? 01:38:27.160 --> 01:38:31.400 Probably not to be honest, but I think you would need to be you would. 01:38:31.460 --> 01:38:35.570 It would be on them to have to make that case of, like, why does this matter? 01:38:35.810 --> 01:38:37.490 Why should we get funding for this? 01:38:37.670 --> 01:39:05.350 Cause you DEP are gonna have to then assess like is this really gonna get us to the targets that we that we wanna get to for this program or is this really like worth worth the time and the investment because there is an infinite funding and umm, you could go down to zillion rabbit holes trying to make things recyclable when in fact the easier, better path of least resistance is just to like choose a different material for iPhone cases. 01:39:05.360 --> 01:39:05.620 Right. 01:39:05.630 --> 01:39:15.070 And so, like, there's gonna be a lot like the it's it's a dangerous slippery slope to just kind of go off ad hoc with lots and lots of random novel potential ideas. 01:39:20.510 --> 01:39:21.050 Right hand. 01:39:15.080 --> 01:39:25.480 You you want a, you have to make sure that it's tied back to the system goals and that this is gonna have like a actual anticipated positive impact on the program. 01:39:29.520 --> 01:39:47.850 So I guess I imagine the funding being more like the SO making the case to DEP that we want to invest, you know, statewide or in some manner of in in these 10 communities on this like on flexible packaging, right or like we have a way to do this and we can show you that it will be recyclable. 01:39:47.860 --> 01:39:49.710 And here's the impact it's gonna have throughout Maine. 01:39:49.720 --> 01:39:51.570 And like, here's where we can go with that. 01:39:51.580 --> 01:40:15.330 And here's that's why we want to spend $10 million in Maine doing this thing and then it would be on DEP to say, OK, that seems like a good use of our program's money and time and knowing that that's gonna take funding away from other potential investments and always needing to set aside emergency funding as a separate kind of bucket. 01:40:25.590 --> 01:40:26.200 Thanks Sydney. 01:40:27.070 --> 01:40:27.660 Thank you. 01:40:34.520 --> 01:40:53.760 And then we wanted to know if if there is a need to specify to any degree in Rule, what sorts of infrastructure investments should be prioritized, and some of our suggestions include regional. 01:40:55.180 --> 01:41:01.030 Uh, maybe need to accommodate a material that hasn't been recently made, readily recyclable? 01:41:01.120 --> 01:41:05.550 Need to make a material that is not readily recyclable, readily recyclable? 01:41:06.790 --> 01:41:10.410 Uh, maybe getting municipalities to get started. 01:41:11.440 --> 01:41:16.690 Uh investments that mimic past successful projects. 01:41:19.210 --> 01:41:20.300 Or just, yeah. 01:41:20.310 --> 01:41:23.460 Does meeting or not meeting a goal change prioritization? 01:41:25.810 --> 01:41:25.990 Yeah. 01:41:27.530 --> 01:41:33.520 The build that up, I think some of our discussion around rather recycle to the first point that you raised. 01:41:33.530 --> 01:41:50.870 I think it could be most useful and whether or not they're formally designated is almost readily recyclable, or is the the materials and product types that are close but perhaps fall short are probably. 01:41:52.840 --> 01:41:59.490 I'm going to be the the higher priority for evaluating structure investment permit portion. 01:42:01.900 --> 01:42:15.630 I and then you think there's there could be some value in having for the on deck circle or you know and it also gives municipalities some direction where the list might evolve. 01:42:16.800 --> 01:42:24.570 There are some that may choose to to have markets for certain materials are able to talk about that right? 01:42:24.580 --> 01:42:27.040 There's a minimum and there's and they could do more. 01:42:28.990 --> 01:42:41.900 I think having a category like that edges maybe it's not linked to readily recyclable, but categories of prioritization for infrastructure investment could serve as a surrogate where you're not. 01:42:43.140 --> 01:42:47.910 Yeah, well, overtly, saying these are the next readily recyclable materials to move on. 01:42:47.920 --> 01:42:56.080 But there's things that we are suggesting could be very helpful for infrastructure because they're not recycled. 01:42:56.090 --> 01:43:00.970 But I do, I mean rather recycle is the is the key factor to driving behaviors. 01:43:00.980 --> 01:43:06.790 And so I think IT infrastructure investment needs to be linked to that standard somehow. 01:43:10.470 --> 01:43:12.380 Discount, you know startup costs for. 01:43:14.060 --> 01:43:18.010 Yeah, municipalities that are coming into the system, but they're accepting the money. 01:43:18.610 --> 01:43:28.550 You've probably aren't already had to believe that they can deal with all the readily recyclable, and there's there's a little bit of a chicken and egg there. 01:43:28.560 --> 01:43:28.930 Like where? 01:43:30.280 --> 01:43:30.580 OK. 01:43:30.920 --> 01:43:35.140 They've got no ability to collect, sort or cycle. The regular cycles. 01:43:36.570 --> 01:43:41.610 Would be like a lead in period of time before they have to start collecting it. 01:43:41.620 --> 01:43:42.520 You know that type of thing? 01:43:42.530 --> 01:43:43.510 I don't know how that would work. 01:43:44.400 --> 01:43:45.980 I'm not saying that it wouldn't work, just. 01:43:49.430 --> 01:44:00.770 Thinking about it from there, SO's perspective and and running a program that's up and running, what are we going to invest next in should be I think those things that are next to the potentially readily recyclable. 01:44:05.640 --> 01:44:06.350 Or just add that. 01:44:06.360 --> 01:44:22.360 I also think that hoping you you mentioned the municipalities that are not currently able like they don't have the capacity at this point to even get on board because of infrastructure that's just lacking. 01:44:23.080 --> 01:44:23.650 Umm. 01:44:24.200 --> 01:45:46.290 And this is where I'm I feel like trying to find like the SO working with the municipalities to try to find like a economies of scale and regionalizing to make those efficient so that they can, if they're gonna, they're gonna get started to do it, to do it in a way that's, you know going to it's going to be the least cost to the municipality but to also allow an opportunity for multiple municipalities that are not currently on board get started all at once I see I see that being a worthwhile investment especially since we've all been talking about making this program accessible from every point in the state and trying to encourage this I think having an opportunity for the municipalities to get some of that initial funds to get started it this could be a good avenue for that because I think waiting until reimbursement comes along is there it's gonna be really hard to convince a municipality to put in all of that initial investment to get reimbursed later they're gonna have to put in a year plus all of the capital for the infrastructure that they need in order to do this and then wait for that to come back. 01:45:46.620 --> 01:45:56.540 So I think this pocket of money might be appropriate for this rather than awaiting reimbursement in that in, in specific cases. 01:45:56.550 --> 01:46:05.370 And I think the SO can help you know leverage relationships across a region and try to consolidate and do this efficiently. 01:46:07.890 --> 01:46:19.810 But yeah, I I I see a lot of municipalities who are not currently recycling stay exactly where they are because they can't afford the initial investments needed to get get started. 01:46:39.560 --> 01:46:51.870 Any thoughts on an appropriate level or, you know, helping with that initial investment there in terms of like a match, say umm. 01:46:55.130 --> 01:46:57.330 I would assume we want to match of some sort. 01:46:57.530 --> 01:46:58.020 Yeah. 01:46:58.030 --> 01:46:59.440 I mean, yeah, I think some. 01:47:02.950 --> 01:47:03.620 I don't know. 01:47:03.630 --> 01:47:12.800 I don't wanna pull numbers out of thin air, but I would maybe lean on municipal perspective for that to see kind of what that would look like and what's feasible and what's not. 01:47:12.870 --> 01:47:23.250 That uh, so yeah, I think this this is probably something, you know, the SO's gonna have a good picture of where the opportunity gaps are. 01:47:23.260 --> 01:47:48.610 And you know, maybe try to work to reduce the cost as much as possible so that there's less of a barrier to entry for municipalities, umm, whether that be like a jointly operated transfer facility or a consolidation location for material to go to and make transportation more cost effective, it could look like a lot of different things. 01:47:50.100 --> 01:47:55.800 But yeah, I I don't know if I should speak to what municipalities can feasibly invest in that. 01:47:59.250 --> 01:48:00.250 Vic do you have anything to say? 01:48:02.790 --> 01:48:09.650 There's I was trying to think about some of the towns I'm dealing with now that don't have anything like Eastport. 01:48:09.820 --> 01:48:17.030 You know how much money is enough or 15-100 thousand, but if the regional is, Jessica said. 01:48:17.490 --> 01:48:18.180 Maybe he's poor. 01:48:18.190 --> 01:48:22.730 Works with the Machias or Dexter works with Dexter or something? 01:48:24.530 --> 01:48:26.480 Not starting from scratch. 01:48:26.490 --> 01:48:28.480 Whole buildings. Balors. 01:48:28.570 --> 01:48:29.430 Compactors. 01:48:29.440 --> 01:48:30.170 The other thing. 01:48:32.930 --> 01:48:41.850 Might be cheaper, but how much is enough nor a good call back during a roll off is like 25 grand. 01:48:42.800 --> 01:48:44.840 And you have a place to put it, and you have electricity. 01:48:45.710 --> 01:48:56.960 But if your curbside is 2 or $3, a stop and it's goes on and on, but it would be nice for some of the towns that say you decide mixed paper is going to be one of the regular recycle, which I don't think we've still decided. 01:48:58.650 --> 01:49:01.010 One town we have everything going for us. 01:49:01.020 --> 01:49:05.390 We gotta Balor or we got a place to put it, but we just don't have enough space for this one item. 01:49:06.220 --> 01:49:10.640 Maybe they need a storage help, but it's the same old thing. 01:49:10.650 --> 01:49:13.080 Who decides which town gets what money? 01:49:13.090 --> 01:49:23.440 And so the big towns get more to the little guys out in the woods, get a box to pretend, you know, you gotta have somebody to oversee that. 01:49:24.030 --> 01:49:33.130 And this are you asking the SO to do too much or you're not doing them the authority or do they not have the responsibility to do it? 01:49:34.570 --> 01:49:38.860 Like we decided they can't have a ask forced to help guide them. 01:49:38.950 --> 01:49:39.200 Right. 01:49:40.250 --> 01:49:41.700 You decide that or we don't know. 01:49:43.410 --> 01:49:44.550 No advisory committee. 01:49:44.560 --> 01:49:45.750 To me, we don't know if that's. 01:49:45.840 --> 01:49:56.010 I think I think deep is not interested in there being is an official an official steering committee if they so once to have an advisory committee, it's up to them to make their life easier I suppose. 01:49:56.260 --> 01:50:00.520 But yes, I can't imagine that would be a like they would. 01:50:00.530 --> 01:50:02.470 I can't imagine us having a rule against that. 01:50:02.530 --> 01:50:03.090 Yeah. 01:50:03.170 --> 01:50:13.800 Anyway, if it were a, and if it were a if it were a PRO that's already functioning in another jurisdiction, they might have something similar already. 01:50:15.400 --> 01:50:16.980 So you give a town like, I don't know. 01:50:16.990 --> 01:50:18.570 I'm picking towns that don't recycle now. 01:50:18.580 --> 01:50:20.870 I think like Frankfurt, they do nothing. 01:50:21.300 --> 01:50:29.600 You throw 10 grand at him and then come back to the year and that well, we recycled a ton, right or we recycled like a lot. 01:50:29.660 --> 01:50:34.730 So you can't really pull the fonts back, but I like your idea of matching. 01:50:34.740 --> 01:50:38.600 It makes the town responsible that look we have to put some money. 01:50:38.610 --> 01:50:39.410 You'll give us some money. 01:50:40.670 --> 01:50:51.760 So that sounded good, but I think if you put in that initial investment and then they're gonna get reimbursed going forward on a tonnage basis. 01:50:52.230 --> 01:51:04.840 So I guess that would help ensure that their recovering as much material as possible in the long term, because they would then be reimbursed based on similar municipalities that average cost. 01:51:04.850 --> 01:51:13.710 So I can see it being just helpful and instead of spending the wheels on, I can't afford to do this, but I want to do this. 01:51:14.630 --> 01:51:21.420 It gives them at least a little bit of that initial, you know, leverage so that they can get the equipment that they need. 01:51:21.430 --> 01:51:26.820 And then the reimbursement structure should incentivize them to get as much tonnage as possible. 01:51:27.810 --> 01:51:32.520 You know, out of that transfer station or regional facility or, you know, whatever it is. 01:51:32.530 --> 01:51:36.560 But I think that the SO can be helpful in facilitating. 01:51:36.570 --> 01:51:39.630 Alright, well, you're not recycling and you want you want to do this. 01:51:39.640 --> 01:51:43.120 You just don't have the funds this town over here, your neighbor. 01:51:43.290 --> 01:51:47.380 Maybe you guys haven't been talking, but they also want to recycle. 01:51:47.460 --> 01:51:57.130 So why don't we find a place that's strategically located and, you know, they kind of just like setting the stage for this infrastructure that's needed. 01:51:58.630 --> 01:52:06.150 Putting in that initial investment and then letting the reimbursement model take care of itself going forward, if that makes sense. 01:52:07.220 --> 01:52:14.570 The reimbursement model only works for them if they're working below the median cost, though. 01:52:14.580 --> 01:52:15.040 Mm-hmm. 01:52:15.080 --> 01:52:15.380 So. 01:52:15.440 --> 01:52:20.880 Well, no, it's, I mean it's to give them even if they're working above the median cost they're getting. 01:52:21.010 --> 01:52:21.880 They're so something. 01:52:21.950 --> 01:52:23.520 Yeah, they're getting something back. 01:52:23.530 --> 01:52:23.980 So they can. 01:52:23.990 --> 01:52:33.900 I mean, it's still might offset there, but if it's an entity that's not made this a priority in the past and you give them a whole bunch of stuff for free and not necessarily gonna make it a priority going forward. 01:52:33.910 --> 01:52:34.840 But if there was a match. 01:52:37.050 --> 01:52:38.380 And we have heard. 01:52:38.910 --> 01:53:00.760 I have heard about the need for that like help with the regional sort of initial situation, situating IT infrastructure and designing infrastructure from a number of municipalities actually sort of like there's a need to, you know, there's like engineering studies that need to look at how much material you might you expect and where would this place be and how much space would you need at all? 01:53:00.950 --> 01:53:07.320 Just like those studies can be pretty, pretty expensive. 01:53:07.330 --> 01:53:17.280 And they're like, right, require a lot of municipalities to sign on and spend a lot of money when there's, like, no, you don't even know if the other guy is gonna be like, you know what? 01:53:17.290 --> 01:53:22.010 I don't wanna do this and then we spent this money for no reason, so that might be a thing. 01:53:22.020 --> 01:53:25.770 That's like the Esso could just pay for potentially a study the like. 01:53:28.920 --> 01:53:34.630 Now I would think which is enough data generated to this point to help keep something like that. 01:53:34.640 --> 01:53:38.100 That sort of studied to a lower cost. 01:53:38.520 --> 01:53:40.660 Would that be kind of part of the needs assessment? 01:53:40.810 --> 01:53:41.080 Yeah. 01:53:42.150 --> 01:53:44.930 Oh yeah, I guess if it's the desserts. 01:53:44.940 --> 01:53:48.780 And yeah, then, yeah, opportunities for this location will place. 01:53:49.450 --> 01:53:51.220 Yeah, to me, I mean, it's kind of would be the needs. 01:53:51.230 --> 01:53:51.780 You know what? 01:53:51.790 --> 01:53:56.740 What areas to have needs and would be served service center. 01:53:56.750 --> 01:53:58.720 The place for it. Yeah. 01:53:58.760 --> 01:53:59.200 Yeah. 01:53:59.250 --> 01:54:00.980 Yeah, like looking at it from that one. 01:54:02.110 --> 01:54:05.840 Yeah, but, but yeah, I just, I see them there. 01:54:06.150 --> 01:54:17.660 They'll be in a good position to identify where there's an opportunity for this level of investment and then maybe help with that first kind of infusion of funds. 01:54:18.590 --> 01:54:28.080 So that cause I I'm I know that there are municipalities that are really excited about E PR, but they're looking at it from the outside because they don't even know how to get in yet. 01:54:28.090 --> 01:54:34.820 Like, they don't even know where they're gonna come up with the initial money to get the compactor. 01:54:34.830 --> 01:54:50.880 Whatever they have to do to justify that in order to get this process even started for that, OK, it's back to like the the needs assessment would be what, you know, what towns aren't just doing anything and but it would be to get them rolling it. 01:54:53.480 --> 01:54:56.010 Could be that granular that we'd know about every town. 01:54:56.040 --> 01:54:56.770 But not every town. 01:54:56.780 --> 01:55:07.740 But I would think would identify, you know, be totally internally areas you know they can say like looking at a regional looking at you know doing the needs assessment. 01:55:07.750 --> 01:55:15.610 We've identified that this, this area of of Maine is none of the towns are doing anything. 01:55:16.670 --> 01:55:19.020 And what would it take to get them? 01:55:19.420 --> 01:55:23.350 What are the needs to get them on board? 01:55:29.090 --> 01:55:29.590 Yeah. 01:55:29.940 --> 01:55:36.500 Well, listen, I have a question that has to do with your nebulous materials list. 01:55:37.570 --> 01:55:47.110 Umm, number of years ago I tried to get the place that I was working with to recycle boat shrink wrap. 01:55:47.540 --> 01:55:52.180 Is that on your nebulous list, or is that even a problem anymore? 01:55:53.360 --> 01:55:58.650 It's #4, right, LDPE huge problem, not packaging. 01:55:58.660 --> 01:56:06.970 Packaging, not package isn't packaging the product, your packaging the boats and then you're unpackaging the boats. 01:56:06.980 --> 01:56:17.840 But that's technically what you're paying for the you're you're paying hundreds of dollars a year, but for that meaning, it's a product. 01:56:18.370 --> 01:56:20.910 The way that the way the law defines it here. 01:56:21.930 --> 01:56:24.640 Umm, but yeah, we've had that question multiple times. 01:56:25.500 --> 01:56:31.310 She didn't plastic component to readily recyclable sheet plastic. 01:56:31.320 --> 01:56:41.410 Or is it not pallet wrap well packaging, just that why if it's not the consumer that's getting it and it depends? 01:56:41.920 --> 01:56:45.220 The distribution packaging. 01:56:45.230 --> 01:57:00.230 Yeah, probably often distribution packaging, but I don't think always I was just thinking that you know you could spin offs once you establish a program for the little bit of sheet that we are generating, they're gonna hopefully create demand for more. 01:57:00.680 --> 01:57:01.820 So be outlets for it. 01:57:02.650 --> 01:57:05.660 So big overtime it evolved nicely. 01:57:05.890 --> 01:57:10.420 Once we get it going, actually that boat wrap is is a bear. 01:57:10.670 --> 01:57:13.790 Ohh, that same thing boat wrap when you ship cars. 01:57:13.860 --> 01:57:18.180 This they have like a boat wrap on them is that packaging. 01:57:19.360 --> 01:57:21.250 We ship cars from, say, Detroit. 01:57:21.700 --> 01:57:25.780 They get the white looks like borap on top of the car and the mirrors to protect them. 01:57:26.770 --> 01:57:30.940 Are we calling that packaging like two big or is it just thought of? 01:57:30.950 --> 01:57:31.860 I never got it. 01:57:31.970 --> 01:57:38.260 Sorry, that's that, doesn't there we go to the intended today, that's not going to the consumer. 01:57:40.830 --> 01:57:54.280 I wonder if you ship boats directly to Allison from, like, Pennsylvania shrink wrap, shipper Dawson Packaging, but if you were to ship it to individual individual consumer, that would doesn't do that. No. 01:57:54.440 --> 01:58:06.610 I was just just wondering if, uh, boat shrink wrap was in this nebulous concept of packaging, but we we think it's out of scope because it has come up. 01:58:06.620 --> 01:58:08.200 You're not the first person to bring that up. 01:58:09.310 --> 01:58:14.890 Well, it's just at certain times of years it is a big problem is being one of them. 01:58:15.300 --> 01:58:17.690 You know, it's being that time here. 01:58:18.130 --> 01:58:20.110 Hopefully I'll drive a market for that type of. 01:58:21.960 --> 01:58:34.470 We tried that in the early 2000s and it worked until they contamination factor was the rope and the grommets. 01:58:34.820 --> 01:58:40.800 If you didn't take enough of it out, the place that we were sending it to and Connecticut didn't want it. 01:58:42.880 --> 01:58:48.080 So of course, there's always a lot of logistical things, but I I was thinking that it. 01:58:52.370 --> 01:58:52.730 OK. 01:58:52.740 --> 01:58:53.070 Thank you. 01:58:59.390 --> 01:59:01.340 Think many people upset that it's not? 01:59:04.180 --> 01:59:04.440 Yep. 01:59:05.600 --> 01:59:05.990 OK. 01:59:06.000 --> 01:59:13.810 So I guess we touched base on the needs, needs assessment, informing infrastructure movement. 01:59:13.860 --> 01:59:16.990 Although I got, so you gotta needs assessment, right? 01:59:18.090 --> 01:59:21.440 And it says we need a regional facility here. 01:59:22.990 --> 01:59:26.140 UM, then what? 01:59:26.610 --> 01:59:31.840 We assume the SO isn't gonna be owning this regional facility, right? 01:59:31.850 --> 01:59:36.260 So is there a A does it? 01:59:36.320 --> 01:59:39.540 Does you know do we send out a formal RFP? 01:59:39.890 --> 01:59:46.820 You know the so send out some sort of like request for proposals that says, you know, this is what we're looking for. 01:59:46.830 --> 01:59:48.340 Who wants to own it? 01:59:48.890 --> 01:59:50.000 I don't know how does that. 01:59:50.010 --> 01:59:50.580 How do we? 01:59:50.690 --> 01:59:57.110 Does anyone have thoughts on how that functions like India so own the facility not granted. 01:59:57.520 --> 01:59:57.860 Yeah. 01:59:57.870 --> 01:59:59.300 Yeah, that's it's. 01:59:59.310 --> 02:00:01.440 Well, I don't think they're the right question and brought it. 02:00:01.450 --> 02:00:02.400 They're not gonna be. 02:00:02.410 --> 02:00:04.120 They're not gonna be the right entity. 02:00:04.680 --> 02:00:09.230 There's been a lot of regional recycling facilities in Maine that have failed. 02:00:10.250 --> 02:00:14.840 I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Sandy River recycling quite a few towns. 02:00:14.850 --> 02:00:21.790 Coastal recycling 17 towns at one time, but Nora Paris is still going, but they used to take 15 towns in or more. 02:00:23.000 --> 02:00:24.270 Why don't these work? 02:00:24.860 --> 02:00:26.110 It's impossible change. 02:00:26.440 --> 02:00:35.640 That was, I think, SRRA Sandy River was, I think the dinosaur people switch what they wanted to do, right. 02:00:35.700 --> 02:01:02.380 But I think if this if the if the cost of managing all those packaging were stabilized through this this then I don't think that a facility like SRRA would have you know holder I don't know, I mean I can't speak to what could have been saying yes if this facility could have gotten if the funds from this this program that shouldn't have failed, right, right. 02:01:02.390 --> 02:01:07.740 If this was happening 10 years ago, then we might still have facility like that in existence today. 02:01:07.790 --> 02:01:08.990 I think that that's part of it. 02:01:10.570 --> 02:01:11.460 Yeah, I can't. 02:01:11.470 --> 02:01:15.920 I can't speak to the coastal resources one, but I can. 02:01:15.990 --> 02:01:20.780 I can say that that was a good reason why SRRA is no longer happening. 02:01:23.340 --> 02:01:24.330 See Neal's. 02:01:24.340 --> 02:01:26.550 Got his ahand up. 02:01:33.680 --> 02:01:34.590 Anything to make me? 02:01:39.300 --> 02:01:52.610 And I guess my my thoughts on the goal of the SO is that it's functions are fairly well defined and it should kind of stick to what its functions are. 02:01:52.730 --> 02:01:56.830 That's primarily administration management of this program. 02:01:58.700 --> 02:02:26.210 I think that it it needs to partner with outside entities to stuff infrastructure projects, things like this, but I don't think the SO should become a construction project management for a company and it's it's primarily administrative in nature and it's going to do best different states focused on those are not deleted effort to things. 02:02:26.260 --> 02:02:32.230 There could be, you know, offloaded to other entities like. 02:02:35.480 --> 02:02:38.780 Like the SO 02:02:38.790 --> 02:02:44.610 May identify you know we need a a regional processing center in Augusta County. 02:02:45.690 --> 02:03:11.680 Umm, you know, they could put an RFP, find a company or maybe a a group of towns cooperative, but some sort of entity that wants to see this project through that can elicit and really drive the project, be the SO could provide input, could provide incentives, investment those sort of thing. 02:03:16.270 --> 02:03:16.830 And from. 02:03:37.090 --> 02:03:41.880 Part of identifying something out of the needs assessment would be engaging. 02:03:41.890 --> 02:03:55.750 The stakeholders in those in that region and you know, make sure make sure that they're all on board if they if they wanna create a cooperative to establish that, then you say you say why not? 02:03:56.100 --> 02:04:01.900 And then I mean, if they go, maybe maybe that means an RFP process. 02:04:01.910 --> 02:04:02.900 I I don't know. 02:04:05.950 --> 02:04:14.420 Yeah, I mean, you can't force municipalities to participate, which is where this might have some challenges. 02:04:14.430 --> 02:04:17.510 Yeah, you can't force them to work together to right. 02:04:17.520 --> 02:04:19.770 Think to have some regional facility. 02:04:19.780 --> 02:04:21.870 It's kind of up to them. 02:04:21.980 --> 02:04:26.450 You can leave the horse to the other horse to water, but refuses to drink. 02:04:26.460 --> 02:04:31.940 Then you just got to develop a system that doesn't have that regional facility in it. 02:04:32.400 --> 02:04:33.830 It will it say. 02:04:36.440 --> 02:04:44.810 So if there were so that if you got, say, let's say you gotta municipal regional association, that was gonna take this on so like qualifies as a municipality under the program. 02:04:46.130 --> 02:04:53.880 Do we feel like then you could just the SO could just say, OK, take this money without having any. 02:04:55.460 --> 02:04:56.160 Umm. 02:04:56.460 --> 02:05:02.800 Sort of bidding process or or looking around for other entities to fulfill that need. 02:05:02.810 --> 02:05:13.360 There had been identified if if a municipal entity is willing to step up and do that, then we just question is they'd be private corporations. 02:05:13.370 --> 02:05:15.560 That would come in potentially. 02:05:15.770 --> 02:05:17.650 So I mean, who knows? 02:05:17.660 --> 02:05:18.180 Maybe not. 02:05:18.390 --> 02:05:19.210 Should you ship? 02:05:19.220 --> 02:05:26.390 Give me the and we fund a private facility and there's. 02:05:26.400 --> 02:05:28.840 I don't think there's any restrictions on who gets the funding. 02:05:30.110 --> 02:05:36.540 See if you get the towns to own it, and then they can hire out this private corporation, whatever that might be. 02:05:36.850 --> 02:05:37.910 It run their facility. 02:05:40.400 --> 02:05:41.820 And they leave it still. 02:05:41.830 --> 02:05:44.250 Municipally, why you municipally owned or whatever. 02:05:48.680 --> 02:05:59.800 So I guess what I'm hearing is that the priority would be to have a quasi municipal entity and in cases where no one wanted to do that. 02:05:59.810 --> 02:06:02.300 Maybe maybe that's the longer a priority. 02:06:02.830 --> 02:06:03.360 Right. 02:06:03.430 --> 02:06:04.460 Maybe that's what happens. 02:06:05.010 --> 02:06:10.300 Maybe if the municipality is, if we, say, look our priority, go ahead back problem. 02:06:10.420 --> 02:06:11.670 You just broke the point. 02:06:12.020 --> 02:06:21.230 You take a regional facility, it's up to them if they wanna have them pick a hauler to kind of run it for him or serve them. 02:06:23.100 --> 02:06:24.370 Right, right, right. 02:06:24.380 --> 02:06:25.250 So that that works. 02:06:25.540 --> 02:06:32.030 You know, if Casella or Archies or Bolster is the next door neighbor, it might make sense for them. 02:06:32.280 --> 02:06:39.770 You know, they're the entity that you work with, cause they've been testable and they can say, OK, I'm gonna have this hauler or haul my goods to this place. 02:06:39.780 --> 02:06:44.570 So that place or something that's that seems fine, doesn't it? 02:06:45.120 --> 02:06:47.520 I don't think you can learn it in the infrastructure account. 02:06:48.200 --> 02:06:49.630 Reimbursement is clearly limited. 02:06:49.640 --> 02:06:53.280 It's just this municipal funding I I think you're gonna. 02:06:55.710 --> 02:07:18.950 That there could be some issues if if you regulation stipulating that the infrastructure funding can only flow to municipalities because that would seemingly municipality could create the infrastructure for private sector and you run into anticompetitive practice or or or or competitive practice that that could really damage. 02:07:19.070 --> 02:07:25.200 I think the ability to allow the system to work well, so I don't. 02:07:25.210 --> 02:07:28.360 I'm not sure you can limit it that we do. 02:07:29.620 --> 02:07:30.500 You know it. 02:07:32.110 --> 02:07:39.060 It's begged my ohh, you know, deliver infrastructure that's effective, but I don't know and I think. 02:07:42.850 --> 02:07:46.530 Somebody is going to have to let it contract out, right? 02:07:46.580 --> 02:07:50.460 Like if if $10 million is down on the right that needs to be invested in it. 02:07:52.000 --> 02:07:59.390 You know, two facilities around the state that would have to be agreed upon between the SO and DEP. 02:08:00.740 --> 02:08:04.730 So somebody's gonna have to to let the contract or have to put the bids back out. 02:08:04.740 --> 02:08:05.100 Right. 02:08:05.600 --> 02:08:06.250 Forward it. 02:08:07.480 --> 02:08:09.060 That's what we're trying to figure out. 02:08:10.260 --> 02:08:16.140 So you mean who of the SO report DEP is is the contractor of the funds? 02:08:19.730 --> 02:08:20.270 I think it's. 02:08:20.280 --> 02:08:21.430 I think it's the SO. 02:08:21.440 --> 02:08:21.790 Would not. 02:08:22.140 --> 02:08:25.590 I think it's also because the, well, I don't know how like. 02:08:27.900 --> 02:08:52.440 The way the statute is written, it would sound like the SO has the funds and the SO was looking for DEP approval to use the to use the funds and then they waste the way I read this stuff then they would as it still has that without some type of quest for the facility identified in the needs assessment and then. 02:08:56.730 --> 02:09:06.360 People would respond to that when you're assessment taking into account like you don't want to see a big recycling center built next door to another one, right? 02:09:06.370 --> 02:09:08.120 Because that doesn't make sense, right? 02:09:08.170 --> 02:09:14.440 So you'll need that sense so there would be that should the needs assessment that would cover that, shouldn't it shouldn't allow that to happen. 02:09:15.740 --> 02:09:20.800 I mean, you would think that yeah, assuming it's any good, assuming that's what you say, then we picked the right. 02:09:20.810 --> 02:09:37.310 SO come, you know, like a places that are maybe underserved or there's nont enough capacity, those might get a higher priority than the middle of a big city that already has like three major processors, right? 02:09:37.370 --> 02:09:37.850 I mean, that's. 02:09:37.860 --> 02:09:37.990 Yeah. 02:09:39.380 --> 02:09:39.930 Who does that? 02:09:39.940 --> 02:09:41.940 You say the DEP does say or the yes, SO does that. 02:09:43.970 --> 02:09:45.100 Yes, so holds the line. 02:09:45.350 --> 02:09:46.000 OK, that's it. 02:09:46.010 --> 02:10:42.670 With the DEP approval. I think that the SO spends the money and wisely. The DP step since says right now, which actually prevent them from yeah thing and unwise. He beginning they right they come to us and say hi deep can. We spend this and then we say. Yeah, that sounds like a wise can, we presently. I was like could we proceed with with trying the needs assessment has identified this need a needs a facility. There's an area of the state that the ones recycling. No, the municipalities recycling from because it's too inefficient because they will cost too much money and it'll actually be an investing in that will area with a facility increase how's ability recycle and make it more efficient and ? 02:10:43.130 --> 02:11:03.810 We said approve it and then they would go forward with some kind of request for someone to put in that facility and then actually, Andy, you're kind of you could be the municipalities could band together or or or a company could say. 02:11:03.820 --> 02:11:05.100 Ohh well actually we should. 02:11:06.420 --> 02:11:08.090 We could do this and little bid on it. 02:11:08.170 --> 02:11:14.120 We've got we'll acquire the property and we'll get the money and we'll operate it. 02:11:17.270 --> 02:11:17.720 Thank you. 02:11:17.760 --> 02:11:19.140 Competing bids. 02:11:19.150 --> 02:11:23.330 Yeah, competing beds and then you select, but which one? 02:11:25.020 --> 02:11:35.970 That's the best part of the SO plan would be putting forth suggesting an RFP process showing us how that's how that would happen or is. 02:11:38.800 --> 02:11:42.910 Well, it would be dictated in in what we say about infrastructural investments. 02:11:44.690 --> 02:11:45.100 Umm. 02:11:48.150 --> 02:11:50.900 I guess we'll probably be there could be either, I mean. 02:11:55.330 --> 02:12:12.820 It might not be the SO in terms of what Neil said, it might not be within the SO sort of wheelhouse through the kit that would be in their wheelhouse to to do the administrative work of putting out the bid and everything, I would think, but not doing the construction management, that type of thing. 02:12:16.440 --> 02:12:17.280 So then, right? 02:12:17.360 --> 02:12:21.650 So OK, still looking at that mechanism, the plan do check act. 02:12:23.190 --> 02:12:24.820 Yeah, they would do the plan. 02:12:24.830 --> 02:12:29.740 They would do the check, they would do the act, they would RFP out the do do. 02:12:33.720 --> 02:12:33.880 But. 02:12:40.480 --> 02:12:44.500 So SO says this is been identified in the needs assessment. 02:12:46.200 --> 02:12:47.110 Let's do it. 02:12:47.400 --> 02:12:48.370 That's the plan. 02:12:48.660 --> 02:12:54.850 And DEP says OK and then SO gets needs a set. 02:12:54.950 --> 02:13:00.950 Does that does an RFP, we'll type thing or SO does it go ahead? 02:13:01.560 --> 02:13:13.370 So I mean think about so, so that would think like the needs assessment actually say something like it's costing a lot of money because we need a central facility here to serve these towns. 02:13:15.580 --> 02:13:24.570 It would that would increase, that would increase the town's ability to recycle and also decrease cost, because we're making the system more efficient. 02:13:25.970 --> 02:13:27.290 And I mean, they should actually be. 02:13:27.300 --> 02:13:33.910 That should be part of a cost benefit analysis done by the SO that would say look if we spent $2,000,000 on a. 02:13:36.370 --> 02:13:44.230 And this kind of on this facility, after five years, the vicinity of it will pay for itself or something like that. 02:13:44.410 --> 02:13:44.960 You know? 02:13:44.970 --> 02:13:58.500 So then yeah, then then when they would put out a bid for that type of facility and it could be whether it's municipalities banning together to do it or around. 02:14:01.790 --> 02:14:04.920 Is that a lot of what you wanna then puts it? 02:14:04.930 --> 02:14:08.870 I didn't wanna name names, but just a a rando waste management company. 02:14:10.390 --> 02:14:13.920 With the bid for it and then we, you know, select the right one. 02:14:17.740 --> 02:14:19.860 Is there any need to be? 02:14:21.260 --> 02:14:25.080 Concerned about the same entity? 02:14:25.090 --> 02:14:30.350 Who is doing the needs assessment and saying this should happen here? 02:14:30.430 --> 02:14:35.070 Being the entity that then picks the who's up, doing this is happening here. 02:14:35.540 --> 02:14:35.730 Why? 02:14:35.770 --> 02:14:40.780 Would think that we would be part of that process of picking you think we would be part of the process of ohh yeah. 02:14:41.910 --> 02:14:44.270 And we will be part of that selection process. 02:14:46.560 --> 02:14:47.710 Because I don't think they would have. 02:14:49.550 --> 02:14:51.180 Yeah, we should be part of the selection. 02:14:51.190 --> 02:15:00.600 The review and selection process because I don't think we want the so to just select you also want municipalities which the material would be like. 02:15:00.610 --> 02:15:01.540 Well, that's interesting. 02:15:01.550 --> 02:15:06.710 Because then if, if that's their major stakeholder, they've got to work with whatever entity this is. 02:15:06.890 --> 02:15:13.620 If you, but if it's your loss gonna say that the municipalities could band together as a regional facility, then they're also selecting. 02:15:14.610 --> 02:15:17.780 They're also on the board that may select themselves to do it. 02:15:19.710 --> 02:15:23.390 It's not OK, which is, yeah, tricky. Yeah. 02:15:25.740 --> 02:15:26.550 OK. 02:15:26.560 --> 02:15:27.610 It's maybe right. 02:15:29.120 --> 02:15:30.200 You'll get his hand up. 02:15:30.880 --> 02:15:34.210 Yeah, because I thought he hung up. 02:15:34.740 --> 02:15:36.030 He said that he came back in. 02:15:36.190 --> 02:15:37.200 I think he did. 02:15:37.210 --> 02:15:38.950 He actually changed his stuff. 02:15:39.540 --> 02:15:40.780 Ohh, he did he? 02:15:40.820 --> 02:15:42.390 I think he left and came in. 02:15:42.470 --> 02:15:43.030 He's not. 02:15:43.320 --> 02:15:46.210 He's not on my phone anymore, saying that switch and now he's yeah. 02:15:46.260 --> 02:15:48.610 Audio because you have audio or do you need to call me? 02:15:48.780 --> 02:15:50.030 You need to put him in person. 02:15:50.050 --> 02:15:50.320 I need that. 02:15:50.470 --> 02:15:53.670 Sorry he left and came back on him. 02:15:53.710 --> 02:15:54.770 He hung up on you, Brian. 02:15:55.470 --> 02:15:56.400 He hung up on you. 02:15:56.450 --> 02:15:56.860 Gotcha. 02:15:56.870 --> 02:15:59.600 He did this story of my life. 02:16:01.470 --> 02:16:03.000 That's what we have to suggest first. 02:16:03.010 --> 02:16:06.370 When there's technical difficulties, you're supposed to leave and then come back. 02:16:06.380 --> 02:16:08.560 Let's see if it fixes situation. 02:16:08.350 --> 02:16:08.610 OK. 02:16:08.570 --> 02:16:08.920 Yeah. 02:16:09.780 --> 02:16:10.910 Hello, can you hear me? 02:16:09.290 --> 02:16:12.360 Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's better. 02:16:12.370 --> 02:16:13.380 No, not at word. 02:16:12.840 --> 02:16:14.530 Wow. Ah. 02:16:16.020 --> 02:16:17.070 Don't mess with them like that. 02:16:18.830 --> 02:16:19.220 Tricksters. 02:16:23.440 --> 02:16:25.050 Yeah, I had a comment. 02:16:25.300 --> 02:16:27.870 I lost it in all of the the commotion. 02:16:28.580 --> 02:16:30.590 Let me see if I can get the get the thread back. 02:16:31.440 --> 02:16:32.170 We were. 02:16:32.560 --> 02:16:35.400 We were talking about, yeah. 02:16:32.550 --> 02:16:36.240 You're talking about the choosing of an action. 02:16:37.480 --> 02:16:54.470 Ohh yes I one thing I wanted to say is that I don't see that it's possible that the SO could just uh select someone to implement a project and give them investment money without approval of the DEP. 02:16:54.780 --> 02:17:04.320 Feel like I don't have the uh statue right in front of me, but I feel like that that was laid out that there was an approval process needed from the DEP for that. 02:17:05.190 --> 02:17:06.600 That is that alright or? 02:17:06.830 --> 02:17:08.120 Yes, yes, correct. 02:17:09.000 --> 02:17:09.240 OK. 02:17:08.130 --> 02:17:09.920 That is, yeah, yeah, you're correct. 02:17:18.750 --> 02:17:19.090 Yeah. 02:17:19.160 --> 02:17:21.430 Keep you would approve the individual that was elected. 02:17:21.490 --> 02:17:23.400 What I think there'd be several approval points. 02:17:23.410 --> 02:17:25.490 There'd be the approval of the needs assessment. 02:17:25.620 --> 02:17:29.190 There would be the approval of moving forward with that type of project. 02:17:29.520 --> 02:17:33.650 There would be the approval of the actual RFP. 02:17:33.660 --> 02:17:36.990 They get sent out and then there would be approval of the selection. 02:17:37.000 --> 02:17:39.750 So yeah, there's a there's a huge problem. 02:17:39.140 --> 02:17:46.210 So are you saying each of these steps is it needs approval from the DEP which also needs approval from the general public? 02:17:47.650 --> 02:17:49.490 Would not think from the general public, though. 02:17:50.930 --> 02:17:51.430 This is Brian. 02:17:52.490 --> 02:17:53.110 Well, that's bad. 02:17:51.110 --> 02:17:53.710 Yeah, just OK. 02:17:54.240 --> 02:17:59.050 There's been many and then no, it's not quite. 02:17:59.180 --> 02:18:00.530 It's not quite true either. 02:18:00.800 --> 02:18:01.600 Lovely, don't worry. 02:18:03.100 --> 02:18:11.330 Yeah, I think we just need to make sure we balance efficiency and speed with, you know, making sure that the goals are met. 02:18:11.720 --> 02:18:23.320 So I think what the the objective of getting department approval is just like a a governor switch, making sure that the SO doesn't go off the rails, you know, just get out of control. 02:18:24.980 --> 02:18:42.660 But we also don't want to limit it too much from been able to operate in a normal, you know, business sort of way where it can just figure out what needs to be done, get some, get some momentum behind the project, get some people involved. 02:18:44.100 --> 02:19:09.870 I I I would, I would think that a good process would be that they would just open up an RFP for submitting proposals and do some analysis to figure out who has the the strongest proposal, who's actually going to be able to meet the goals and then maybe put that together with some supplementary reporting, some due diligence and give that to the DEP. 02:19:10.080 --> 02:19:16.050 Just to kind of give it some weight and put their but their thoughts behind the the proposal? 02:19:17.660 --> 02:19:28.100 Umm, but I I guess the the idea of each of those discrete steps meeting approval does sound a little little heavyweight. 02:19:29.700 --> 02:19:32.860 You know, maybe maybe it's necessary, but I don't know. 02:19:34.010 --> 02:19:35.420 Just have to consider I think. 02:19:34.500 --> 02:19:49.890 Well, I mean, I think submittal of the needs assessment, I mean, I think we definitely want to have approval of any need that they move forward on trying to fix. Uh. 02:19:51.770 --> 02:20:03.750 And I would definitely want to be the department to be part of the approval of an actual selection of facility, you know? 02:20:04.850 --> 02:20:05.600 Oh, for sure. 02:20:05.750 --> 02:20:07.340 Yeah, before a check is cut. 02:20:05.030 --> 02:20:09.260 Uh, and I mean right before the check is cut. 02:20:09.800 --> 02:20:09.960 Yeah. 02:20:09.270 --> 02:20:11.450 I mean and then the other thing too is, so the other. 02:20:11.460 --> 02:20:21.970 So then there was this two points that in the between that one was to approval of the needs then the approval of the RFP itself that it puts out. 02:20:21.980 --> 02:20:26.550 I mean, I would think that we would wanna be, that was the third one. 02:20:26.660 --> 02:20:32.350 I think the second one is just the project in general would with the idea going forward the idea? 02:20:32.580 --> 02:20:37.310 Well, it could also be much more of a. 02:20:39.930 --> 02:20:45.200 Technically, I imagine a discussion as opposed to a back and forth in terms of efficiencies. 02:20:45.210 --> 02:20:56.420 Yeah, maybe it would be a fun some type of a letter approval of the department has reviewed the needs assessment and concurs with the with the priority of the following needs. 02:20:56.970 --> 02:21:00.850 And then the SO moves forward and says, OK, well, I'll leave. 02:21:02.060 --> 02:21:03.230 He started. 02:21:03.570 --> 02:21:12.590 You know, we've decided that, yes, we're gonna move forward with this need of a facility here in this part of Maine, you know? 02:21:13.950 --> 02:21:14.750 OK. Yeah. 02:21:12.640 --> 02:21:17.850 And then yes, move forward with that developer. 02:21:17.970 --> 02:21:25.550 Yes, develop a RFP for it and then we develop it and they submit it for review and approval. 02:21:25.960 --> 02:21:30.390 So we make sure that it's meeting that and then the selection, I mean that's it. 02:21:30.840 --> 02:21:31.660 Now it's standard. 02:21:32.580 --> 02:21:34.940 Not sure why that would be overly well. 02:21:35.710 --> 02:21:35.990 OK. 02:21:34.950 --> 02:21:37.650 I guess we just need to think about as we go along. 02:21:37.880 --> 02:21:58.210 If there are too many points that require too many signatures, you know you know how we didn't have a, you know, we could have A and the other state of a change that these infrastructure investments that are requiring an RFP have to probably they're exceeding a certain like I was monetary value. 02:21:58.220 --> 02:22:02.610 Yeah, it definitely seemed not your municipal infrastructure investment. 02:22:02.620 --> 02:22:07.550 We're talking about a clausi municipal like Mega project here. 02:22:07.610 --> 02:22:07.740 Yeah. 02:22:07.750 --> 02:22:08.770 We're not talking about just. 02:22:09.530 --> 02:22:09.710 Yeah. 02:22:08.810 --> 02:22:15.630 This is just setting up a baler at the Heartland 95 interchange. 02:22:15.890 --> 02:22:18.870 This is something more substantial. 02:22:18.880 --> 02:22:19.470 Yeah. 02:22:19.980 --> 02:22:28.430 The other question there cause the infrastructure account prior to approval for all investments, let's say every facility of Maine means new. 02:22:28.440 --> 02:22:30.330 A new generation of an optical sorter. 02:22:31.570 --> 02:22:49.200 You want to think through differentiating SO because that's not something that's not necessarily impersonal, because that might be a, you know, we need to invest in, in slate of infrastructure across the state and it's equipment versus facilities based. 02:22:50.510 --> 02:22:55.930 And does that require the same level of of approval? 02:22:56.500 --> 02:23:01.600 Assume that that requires some level DEP approval, not talking about facility. 02:23:02.900 --> 02:23:08.990 So you may want to treat those different differently, but it's not right. 02:23:09.000 --> 02:23:09.480 You're not. 02:23:09.530 --> 02:23:09.910 You're not. 02:23:09.920 --> 02:23:13.010 You wouldn't be an RFP out because you know where the things are going. 02:23:13.030 --> 02:23:15.840 I know unless it's for what optical sorter? 02:23:15.850 --> 02:23:17.700 That was what it means. 02:23:17.710 --> 02:23:19.400 What optical sort are you buying? 02:23:19.450 --> 02:23:19.880 Wow. 02:23:19.990 --> 02:23:20.250 Yeah. 02:23:20.260 --> 02:23:26.930 Well, I think it's like say you're saying it's like let's say we decide that a ton of towns need the same piece of equipment. 02:23:26.940 --> 02:23:27.900 Then you can put that out. 02:23:28.750 --> 02:23:31.420 Umm good for stuff here. 02:23:32.380 --> 02:23:38.120 Let's say let's say you're moving something on to the readily recyclables to this because that's. 02:23:38.190 --> 02:23:41.200 That's might be a driver in your infrastructure decisions. 02:23:41.210 --> 02:23:53.880 So let's say between flexibles flexible packaging into the right of recyclables list, and to do so requires 10 optical sorters across the state in the major facilities that exist in the state. 02:23:54.790 --> 02:23:57.240 And they're to generation technologies. 02:23:57.250 --> 02:24:06.660 There might be two or three different riders that could do that, so each facility could sort of choose from allowing it means certain specifications. 02:24:06.670 --> 02:24:17.260 That is a fifth generation and whatever optical sorter and so that's something that DEP approves that as a general infrastructure investment. 02:24:19.360 --> 02:24:29.910 Concept that was identified by needs assessment to some extent, but also driven by the fact that we're trying to do this materials up and then you know in essence. 02:24:31.720 --> 02:24:36.100 And so that's checks to all the facilities that need that infrastructure investment. 02:24:39.040 --> 02:24:39.360 Umm. 02:24:40.900 --> 02:24:41.800 Different setup. 02:24:41.860 --> 02:24:45.830 Yeah, different setup, setup and bed contracting for specific facility. 02:24:45.840 --> 02:24:50.880 You wouldn't need RFP's, it would be and some of them could be private too. 02:24:50.940 --> 02:24:53.220 Could be private or could be public facilities, right? 02:24:53.340 --> 02:24:53.730 Right. 02:24:53.740 --> 02:24:56.700 And there could be a interesting mix. 02:24:56.710 --> 02:25:05.000 Of the 2 maybe when I require that they they also notify you who receives the funding so that you understand. 02:25:05.010 --> 02:25:05.340 OK. 02:25:05.350 --> 02:25:09.710 Casella got two of these for two of their facilities, but then you know. 02:25:11.750 --> 02:25:14.680 Tri County Area, got one, etcetera, etcetera. 02:25:14.690 --> 02:25:17.860 So that you can understand who got the investment. 02:25:20.820 --> 02:25:21.040 Yes. 02:25:20.830 --> 02:25:51.800 So Andy it, it seemed like you were kind of touching on the fact that maybe there needs to be some way to to slice the the process into variants such that there's a, there's kind of a lightweight process maybe if a town just needs a baler or they just need some bins or some sort of low investment that that doesn't include the whole process of incremental approvals to move forward versus larger regional ones that maybe need the whole process. 02:25:52.650 --> 02:25:53.120 But what? 02:25:53.130 --> 02:25:54.040 What's the line like? 02:25:54.050 --> 02:25:57.660 How do you divide these different processes? 02:25:59.950 --> 02:26:01.350 And you could say holy new. 02:26:04.570 --> 02:26:04.800 Umm. 02:26:01.360 --> 02:26:05.140 I mean, you have to almost create a definition of that threshold. 02:26:05.190 --> 02:26:08.680 Wholy new infrastructure would be a new type facility. 02:26:09.450 --> 02:26:16.640 Find that say that for wholy new recycling infrastructure, you know the. 02:26:19.620 --> 02:26:19.900 Yes. 02:26:19.910 --> 02:26:26.220 wholy new infrastructure the SO must see bids for that infrastructure within an RFP process. 02:26:26.230 --> 02:26:30.920 That will you, the final word bid would be approved. 02:26:30.930 --> 02:26:35.790 by DEP. Variety for instruction. 02:26:35.800 --> 02:26:36.200 Pressman. 02:26:36.210 --> 02:26:45.510 That's not wholy new recycling infrastructure to structure the SO will notify the Department of the need. 02:26:46.410 --> 02:26:58.430 And there are annual infrastructure investment, you know, portion of report and the annual report and then or to the department. 02:26:59.220 --> 02:27:03.450 Yes, right there could be a a presentation. 02:27:03.800 --> 02:27:17.830 I think it's only two big why am I will be going to two pages of different processes where it's either you're augmenting existing infrastructure where you're building wholy new cycling infrastructure. 02:27:17.840 --> 02:27:22.230 So yeah, because there's a clear owner or there's not. 02:27:22.310 --> 02:27:24.020 Yeah, I gotta go. 02:27:24.110 --> 02:27:24.940 So thank you. 02:27:24.950 --> 02:27:25.320 Thank you. 02:27:25.330 --> 02:27:26.340 That's the question, yeah. 02:27:28.440 --> 02:27:28.660 OK. 02:27:29.530 --> 02:27:29.880 Yeah. 02:27:29.890 --> 02:27:40.410 It as far as new infrastructure versus upgrading old I if if we're bringing new municipalities on board. 02:27:41.300 --> 02:27:53.400 Uh, they may not have existing infrastructure and they may not need much to get started, but I wouldn't want them to get swept into the the heavyweight process as well, just because it was new stuff. 02:27:53.930 --> 02:27:54.250 So maybe. 02:27:56.550 --> 02:28:09.700 New new facilities, but also there's a a threshold, a dollar amount or I don't know, maybe maybe just me, just municipalities that are onboarding have a different process something. 02:28:13.020 --> 02:28:22.970 But do you understand the distinction that I'm that I'm saying, if we just say new, all new infrastructure heavyweight process, existing infrastructure, you know, lightweight process? 02:28:23.890 --> 02:28:36.310 Umm, I think it it loses an element of the the the size like the scope you know like if it's a small project and it's new, maybe it's just easy and lightweight would be fine. 02:28:37.830 --> 02:28:58.240 I think there's still that distinction between facility and equipment though, and if it is a municipality that's needing an investment beyond a piece of equipment and it still has to do with the magnitude of a facility, I don't know how much we want to compromise. 02:29:01.830 --> 02:29:08.730 Like the checks and balances of that process, because it's still a facility, but I understand what you're saying. 02:29:14.760 --> 02:29:28.410 The thing about those those like an investment in infrastructure like starting a municipal facility from the ground, that's a great opportunity to also find out what surrounding municipalities might be using it. 02:29:28.420 --> 02:29:29.990 So I can see it, I can. 02:29:30.040 --> 02:29:47.410 I see how starting a facility from the ground is a big project, even though it might only be considered a municipal investment, there's still a lot of potential to make sure you know it's in an optimal location it has. 02:29:49.110 --> 02:29:54.850 The capability of, you know, executing those best practices so. 02:29:57.130 --> 02:30:09.870 Neil was just mentioning how we just want to maybe to lessen the checks and balances of the of an initial investment in a municipal facility. 02:30:12.400 --> 02:30:15.450 So we'll just, yeah, what? 02:30:12.670 --> 02:30:16.220 When when I need this holiday is the onboarding, like when we're trying to get someone on board. 02:30:17.060 --> 02:30:18.710 It's a new municipal facility. 02:30:18.720 --> 02:30:20.550 Gonna have to go through site location. 02:30:23.250 --> 02:30:24.490 I would assume. Yeah. 02:30:24.560 --> 02:30:24.950 Yeah. 02:30:24.960 --> 02:30:25.510 So. 02:30:25.560 --> 02:30:33.090 So it's gonna be an expensive facility even in new, you know, small one, cause the storm water management and all the rest of the stuff you have to do. 02:30:34.130 --> 02:30:38.360 Umm, it's a hard one to put a line across. 02:30:38.370 --> 02:30:38.980 Neal, I think. 02:30:40.450 --> 02:30:41.570 Yeah, I agree. 02:30:43.620 --> 02:30:43.910 Right. 02:30:43.920 --> 02:30:49.030 It's going to be I'm this this part of the process is a small part of the process. 02:30:49.040 --> 02:30:49.490 Yeah. 02:30:49.580 --> 02:30:50.440 The process? 02:30:50.510 --> 02:30:51.100 Yeah. 02:30:51.160 --> 02:30:51.940 When you get into that. 02:30:58.230 --> 02:30:58.950 That's good. 02:31:01.310 --> 02:31:01.770 OK. 02:31:04.490 --> 02:31:09.340 Are there any other general comments on infrastructure investments? 02:31:14.960 --> 02:31:15.440 Peter. 02:31:15.520 --> 02:31:18.030 Yeah, but we gotta move him. 02:31:18.990 --> 02:31:22.310 But then you don't have much time. 02:31:25.240 --> 02:31:30.130 I guess, I guess I've watched him do it a few times too, and I probably could have figured you're good. 02:31:31.340 --> 02:31:32.230 Thank you. 02:31:32.760 --> 02:31:34.010 Just one thought too. 02:31:34.020 --> 02:31:41.650 You from the information you're in your needs assessment you can do. 02:31:43.600 --> 02:31:55.540 A lot of the evaluation potentially up front where you are ranking your projects, evaluating your projects, recognizing that that's that. 02:31:56.940 --> 02:32:20.490 Assessment would need to be updated every year, but you may have projects that go through that evaluation that will sit there for five years before it it actually comes to fruition because there are higher needs and higher rank projects in front of it. 02:32:21.490 --> 02:32:36.530 But to me there there is a possibility too that you may be able to upload a lot of the review public comment input on at the very front with the results of the needs assessment. 02:32:40.670 --> 02:32:57.710 And the the only other thing I will I will add with it too is when you look at when you do get to goals and setting targets, success really does require buy in from all parties. 02:32:58.220 --> 02:33:11.390 So having input up front and engagement upfront pays dividends down the road in terms of actually having successful implementation on projects. 02:33:15.670 --> 02:33:16.350 Thank you, Peter. 02:33:17.170 --> 02:33:17.340 Sure. 02:33:27.850 --> 02:33:35.640 OK, I think I'm ready to transition us into the last topic, which is reuse, but I don't think Sydney still with us. 02:33:35.710 --> 02:33:37.500 She might have dropped a comment saying. 02:33:41.190 --> 02:33:42.080 Not now. 02:33:42.590 --> 02:33:43.110 No problem. 02:33:43.120 --> 02:33:44.200 We're yeah. 02:33:44.210 --> 02:33:45.440 Just have a few things. 02:33:45.450 --> 02:33:50.450 Yeah, see my written comments and that's been reuse. 02:33:51.270 --> 02:33:52.050 OK, great. 02:33:53.730 --> 02:33:54.220 OK. 02:33:54.230 --> 02:33:58.680 So yeah, and how much? 02:34:01.740 --> 02:34:03.730 And might this change overtime? 02:34:11.630 --> 02:34:14.450 To whom for what? 02:34:18.620 --> 02:34:29.230 So so when we're thinking about reuse, one of the issues we've come across is where you're trying to think about systems that aren't currently well defined. 02:34:29.520 --> 02:34:33.970 It's really hard to answer these questions about how much money do you need? 02:34:36.350 --> 02:34:37.100 Who might that money? 02:34:37.110 --> 02:34:39.620 Go to what might be investing in even? 02:34:43.140 --> 02:34:46.870 And so, you know as a result. 02:34:51.270 --> 02:35:07.840 You know, you kind of lost for like, what if you are going to set aside a set of money from you use you hope that there's some idea what you're setting aside for how much you're setting aside and and some guidelines around that and. 02:35:11.040 --> 02:35:14.020 We are kind of at a loss. 02:35:15.960 --> 02:35:41.680 Is that an accurate way of saying, well, we we didn't have a comment saying 5% of the program cost and that comment also referenced other jurisdictions and and what they are putting forward reuse system which range from I guess it ranged from yeah up up to 10% in in Oregon. 02:35:42.160 --> 02:35:54.340 So we're informed in that way, but we're just 10% of I think it's Oregon, it's 10% of the whole program cost I think Sydney was suggesting 5% of investment costs. 02:35:56.660 --> 02:35:57.150 Umm. 02:35:59.870 --> 02:36:02.730 Organs program costs are not our program costs either, right? 02:36:03.490 --> 02:36:19.210 Umm, but then you know is that forever and for always is there a need to you know increase or decrease that do we use the goals, do you know do we use or reuse goal to decide whether that pot of money should be increasing or decreasing? 02:36:20.120 --> 02:36:23.880 Umm, we get to that same question of is it? 02:36:26.470 --> 02:36:32.640 Uh, who owns those investments for reuse? 02:36:40.970 --> 02:37:03.630 The challenge in Maine is that we don't have a lot to compare this to at this time, but I think like in terms of examples of investments would be like washing facilities and like collection maybe like an alternative collection program kind of deal with would need to be in place for reusables. 02:37:06.590 --> 02:37:18.050 I I I'm a fan of putting something into the program goals for reuse just kind of having something incorporated there on increasing the amount of packaging that's. 02:37:19.570 --> 02:37:20.560 Reusable. 02:37:20.610 --> 02:37:31.130 I mean, I think it will also see that if there are if if producers are putting something out into the system that can be reused more than once. 02:37:32.570 --> 02:37:38.730 They're gonna see decreased cost to them in the in the producer payments that they're putting into the system. 02:37:39.810 --> 02:37:46.250 Umm so there there could be a really good incentive for producers to switch to reusable forms of packaging. 02:37:47.220 --> 02:37:47.580 Umm. 02:37:48.100 --> 02:37:51.570 Whether or not they do that is an entirely separate question. 02:37:52.460 --> 02:37:58.970 We'll could that be something that kind of you could ask that needs like the needs assessment to identify? 02:37:58.980 --> 02:37:59.670 Yeah. 02:37:59.740 --> 02:38:00.320 Is like. 02:38:00.330 --> 02:38:18.390 Is there as part of the need assessment identify areas that might benefit from the reuse program, and what that might and what and and how that might industries. 02:38:18.600 --> 02:38:20.100 Yeah, introduced to these. 02:38:20.110 --> 02:38:26.940 That would be that could benefit from such a reuse program and and what? 02:38:26.950 --> 02:38:50.370 What the efficiencies is cost might be to incentive, incentivize that you know have the outlaid in the needs assessment, then take it from there and there is like a realized cost savings most of the time through reuse I mean well you definitely see the environmental impact but you know an initial investment is necessary. 02:38:50.380 --> 02:38:56.710 And again, this is like part of it is having the capital to do the initial investment is the tricky part. 02:38:56.720 --> 02:39:09.140 So I guess that's where maybe there's some good potential for using funds from this investment portion to like help facilitate the transition. 02:39:11.700 --> 02:39:25.770 But I think there's a couple of different ways that reuse happens, and one of them could be, you know, through a more like formal like washing and consolidating and and kind of industrialized process. 02:39:25.780 --> 02:39:31.030 But then again, there are reusables that people take and clean at home and bring back. 02:39:31.080 --> 02:39:39.060 And then that producers paying into the system only once and that's their incentive to be in reuse. 02:39:39.450 --> 02:39:40.940 Umm where? 02:39:41.010 --> 02:39:52.370 Like where a consumer can go back to the grocery store and fill up their their package that they already got with the you know, first purchase and they can reuse it over and over again. 02:39:55.050 --> 02:40:02.200 Yeah, this it's a little tricky because there's a couple of different mechanisms for reuse that could that could happen in the state. 02:40:02.330 --> 02:40:15.080 Well, but that sounds like, yeah, both of those things sound like things we were just talking about in terms of infrastructure investments and that they could potentially be handled in the same manner, right, actually. 02:40:16.240 --> 02:40:46.670 And just maybe with a cut out is set aside, but you know this is, I mean the other thing is if the if the needs assessment comes up with some identify some things that doesn't and say some another the manufacturer may say ohh I see this is been identified the needs assessment I could do this system as that's something that the SO know even has to pay for pay for. 02:40:46.680 --> 02:40:53.840 It's like someone says wow, the needs assessment identified that that the rest you know the the. 02:40:54.190 --> 02:41:01.840 Restaurants in this area could use it could then would would be more efficient if they were had this type of system. 02:41:02.010 --> 02:41:08.410 And then maybe that would just then spur on that group to do their own alternative system. 02:41:10.550 --> 02:41:19.230 Potentially, but the I do see if a pocket of investment money was there earmarked or reuse projects it could help. 02:41:20.970 --> 02:41:26.010 Facilitate or kind of accelerate that transition for for companies. 02:41:27.430 --> 02:41:32.420 Again, I think it's hard to compare what we don't have that infrastructure in the state right now versus recycling. 02:41:32.430 --> 02:41:33.430 It's harder. Harder. 02:41:33.430 --> 02:41:42.060 To express the reasons you really need the money too, because it's a lot harder for somebody to go in and say I'm gonna spend money on this if you don't really have any. 02:41:42.110 --> 02:41:42.560 Yeah. 02:41:42.650 --> 02:41:46.170 And they spend money and they don't even know exactly what. 02:41:47.910 --> 02:41:49.860 There's no no kind of reporting or anything. 02:41:49.870 --> 02:41:53.040 Is what what that actually is going to increase hope to provide, right? 02:41:53.050 --> 02:42:05.280 Sydney did make a really good point in the last meeting that this is the only Ave to push the material up the hierarchy in terms of reuse like this is the only area in which we're capable of doing this. 02:42:05.290 --> 02:42:12.300 If it can't be covered under municipal reimbursements, this is really the one place that we can drive that systems change. 02:42:12.310 --> 02:42:16.930 And so I think earmarking makes absolute sense within this bucket. 02:42:18.340 --> 02:42:18.880 And what that. 02:42:18.890 --> 02:42:19.140 Yeah. 02:42:19.150 --> 02:42:19.770 Go for it. 02:42:19.820 --> 02:42:22.040 Yeah to Harveys 1st and then Neal. 02:42:23.350 --> 02:42:24.360 So here we go for it. 02:42:26.730 --> 02:42:27.440 You're muted, honey. 02:42:27.360 --> 02:42:29.330 Ohh several comments. 02:42:29.340 --> 02:42:31.270 I think you know evaluation of the. 02:42:31.380 --> 02:42:43.460 System or, you know, as Peter said, you know management systems, but I think you're going to be looking at great changes time period to time period. 02:42:43.470 --> 02:42:46.200 I'll say I don't know if that's a year or two years or what. 02:42:46.990 --> 02:42:51.330 As far as things like PCR or reuse. 02:42:52.060 --> 02:42:54.870 Uh, you know, they're all great ideals. 02:42:54.880 --> 02:43:03.590 It's like kind of indicated before, but technology has to catch up with whatever your goals are. 02:43:04.340 --> 02:43:08.590 Some things I'm concerned about, so if you use, you reuse a package. 02:43:09.650 --> 02:43:11.410 How many times can you reuse it? 02:43:12.720 --> 02:43:14.390 Uh, you know? 02:43:14.400 --> 02:43:16.670 Or, as I say, recycled material. 02:43:16.940 --> 02:43:20.310 How many times can you use that package to recycle it again? 02:43:20.920 --> 02:43:40.870 And of course, as you mentioned before, on bringing something back to the grocery store, whether it's a cosmetic or drug or food item, you wanna make sure there's no contamination, which we includes both chemical and umm, microbiological. 02:43:41.780 --> 02:43:48.550 And he also need to make sure, umm and I forgot my last point there. 02:43:48.620 --> 02:44:01.730 But I mean all these things, it's nice to have rules, but in another big criteria is the available of recycled material in order to do this. 02:44:02.260 --> 02:44:12.500 If you don't have the recyclable material to put in, then they're not going to meet your PCR goals, for example. 02:44:12.850 --> 02:44:21.620 So all these need to be evaluated and the other point was when this goes back to like, why did recycling plants fail? 02:44:22.170 --> 02:44:26.090 I I think one thing that happened is back to the law of supply and demand. 02:44:26.810 --> 02:44:27.040 Uh. 02:44:28.510 --> 02:44:33.780 Several years ago, the prices for recycled materials uh tanked. 02:44:34.270 --> 02:44:44.150 So there was no profit in it and municipality, municipalities and private enterprises suffered in some of the private enterprises failed. 02:44:45.040 --> 02:44:53.030 So, and that's gonna the on a business cycle and so on and somewhat unpredictable. 02:44:53.720 --> 02:44:56.820 So all these factors need to be taken into account. 02:45:01.330 --> 02:45:01.730 Thank you. 02:45:01.740 --> 02:45:02.240 Thank you. 02:45:03.450 --> 02:45:03.790 They don't. 02:45:03.800 --> 02:45:04.050 You wanna? 02:45:06.860 --> 02:45:07.200 The next. 02:45:07.100 --> 02:45:08.790 Sure, sure. Sure. 02:45:09.160 --> 02:45:09.430 Yeah. 02:45:09.440 --> 02:45:36.050 I just wanted to speak to Jessica's question about how much do we know to allocate to reuse and I guess I I would propose that rather than try to stand up front and guess, but it's going to be and just set it at that, that instead we have a a sort of process where maybe on a yearly basis or biyearly, we reevaluate these allocations for these different buckets. 02:45:36.060 --> 02:46:11.600 So we have a bucket for reuse investment and then maybe education is another bucket infrastructure is perhaps another bucket and the the the allocations you know we can we can twiddle with those as we get more information up front because it it may be possible that even though we would like to invest so much in reuse that there's nobody there that is uh requesting those funds for investment and if they're not we don't wanna. 02:46:12.380 --> 02:46:14.530 Find some subpar outlet for them. 02:46:14.540 --> 02:46:20.860 Just because our mandate says that we have to spend 6% of our budget on reuse infrastructure. 02:46:21.660 --> 02:46:29.660 Uh, so I I would say keep it somewhat flexible, but allow us to define them also. 02:46:38.950 --> 02:47:00.640 Yes, maybe just had a question on a couple items like what a mattress bag or a pellet bag or a pallet that a pellets came on and cluster the either reusable or packaging because a palette that say you shipped to a grocery store full of peanut butter. 02:47:01.330 --> 02:47:09.650 That's not because that's not consumer related, but when you buy a ton of pallet a pellets, consumers have to deal with those pallets. 02:47:09.660 --> 02:47:10.820 We have to deal with the pallets. 02:47:10.830 --> 02:47:12.450 Some like them, some may not. 02:47:12.510 --> 02:47:20.250 So this disposal I've been discussed at all and the one that was this morning bags and. Yeah. 02:47:20.450 --> 02:47:22.500 Yeah, very well. 02:47:22.540 --> 02:47:32.500 Likely be like a take back program for you know the store to take back those pallets that the consumer it's gotten when they order a bulk thing like that. 02:47:32.620 --> 02:47:33.910 Yeah, they're infrastructure. 02:47:33.970 --> 02:47:34.550 Package. 02:47:34.680 --> 02:47:37.240 It would be a package if it would be summer, right? 02:47:37.250 --> 02:47:37.830 Well, guess what? 02:47:37.840 --> 02:47:38.740 But then again, it depends. 02:47:38.750 --> 02:47:40.450 Well, so maybe it depends on. 02:47:40.600 --> 02:47:48.570 So if I go to agway and buy bags of pellets and I just load on in the back of my truck loose. 02:47:48.680 --> 02:47:56.740 Yeah, but if I'm like, well, no, take your forklift and put that on the back of my truck with the. 02:47:56.840 --> 02:48:04.540 Then it's kind of like it's like my choice to take that or if you were getting a ton delivered to your house, then I'd come on a pallet, right? 02:48:04.550 --> 02:48:06.630 If you get a ton delivered on your house, it gets it. 02:48:06.680 --> 02:48:07.070 That's. 02:48:07.440 --> 02:48:23.130 Yeah, that's packaging, but it's almost kind of like the consumers twice as to that packaging there are in this demand for pallets, any recycling center swallows them all. 02:48:23.510 --> 02:48:25.080 I asked you on regular basis. 02:48:28.050 --> 02:48:28.450 Umm. 02:48:28.710 --> 02:48:29.000 I don't. 02:48:29.010 --> 02:48:29.720 Yeah, I don't know. 02:48:29.730 --> 02:48:41.600 I mean, I guess it's it's almost what situation specific see that one though the bags would lend itself nicely to refillables. 02:48:42.980 --> 02:48:46.410 Yeah, they could buy it more robust bags to begin with. 02:48:46.420 --> 02:48:51.170 Our certainly A and put a deposit on it and you can refill it for less. Yeah. 02:48:51.230 --> 02:48:56.730 And that would be well, even if maybe you gotta having a pellet stove. 02:48:56.740 --> 02:49:11.070 But I remember, you know, you could if it if they didn't have to be in 50-pound bags, if you could just have like a those delivery lose the bulk delivery of a delivery, you like the bulk too. 02:49:11.130 --> 02:49:12.070 It'll be a pellet shoot. 02:49:12.080 --> 02:49:15.450 Yeah, you get a either a pellet shoot or you can still get in a palette. 02:49:15.460 --> 02:49:18.890 It's just a palette that's got those hefty bags and they call them. 02:49:19.120 --> 02:49:21.870 We used to have to explain that. 02:49:22.180 --> 02:49:22.630 Yeah. 02:49:22.680 --> 02:49:23.310 Thank you. 02:49:23.320 --> 02:49:25.430 Know that sack is now packaging. 02:49:25.700 --> 02:49:26.350 Yeah, right. 02:49:26.360 --> 02:49:27.290 But actually, but no. 02:49:27.300 --> 02:49:30.150 So so I order them, I order a ton of pellets. 02:49:30.400 --> 02:49:36.790 They come in that palletized thing and then like, once I get that done, I'm like, OK, give me another one. 02:49:36.800 --> 02:49:39.700 They take that one back when they deliver a new one. 02:49:39.760 --> 02:49:40.970 Alternative Collection program. 02:49:41.020 --> 02:49:44.920 Yeah, that's an alternative alternative collection program, but it's still packaging. 02:49:44.930 --> 02:49:45.540 We can exchange. 02:49:47.290 --> 02:49:49.110 That's reuse, that is reuse. 02:49:49.120 --> 02:49:50.180 Yeah, sure, sure. 02:49:50.190 --> 02:49:52.140 So much, but there's some stuff. 02:49:52.150 --> 02:50:00.720 Maybe then it's up well, really frustrating to think outside the bottle built and I couldn't come up with anything, but it's two good examples. 02:50:01.210 --> 02:50:03.230 Neal and Harvey, both with their hands up. 02:50:03.290 --> 02:50:04.020 OK. 02:50:04.030 --> 02:50:05.850 That we'll go with Harvey again first. 02:50:09.170 --> 02:50:10.450 I need to take mine down. 02:50:11.400 --> 02:50:18.310 But you know, Neal, actually, though Peters up actually wait, just taking this down. 02:50:18.610 --> 02:50:18.960 No. 02:50:19.000 --> 02:50:19.990 Harvey took his down. 02:50:20.000 --> 02:50:21.790 Ohh, Harvey took Peter's up. 02:50:21.760 --> 02:50:22.620 Not me, it's Peter. 02:50:21.860 --> 02:50:23.820 Peterson alright. 02:50:23.960 --> 02:50:29.570 So I just wanted to say I agreed with Neal's points there. 02:50:29.620 --> 02:51:04.520 I I do think you you want the flexibility to move back and forth within those pots of money and that could potentially be part of your annual review process with projects or every two year or three year whatever whatever does make sense and then have one one thought on the idea of reuse, reuse specific to uh an individual producer there there definitely is an incentive for them in terms of reducing their packaging. 02:51:05.050 --> 02:51:15.820 But if there is a need for broader infrastructure to create a reuse, maybe it's something worth considering. 02:51:16.130 --> 02:51:20.380 An incentive at a credit to that producer. 02:51:20.390 --> 02:51:32.080 If it's an individual producer investing in that infrastructure, that could be credited to them in terms of their producer fees. 02:51:34.090 --> 02:51:34.400 Become. 02:51:32.090 --> 02:51:35.850 As an example, seeing that type of model. 02:51:37.290 --> 02:51:39.030 Moreover, in in terms of what I? 02:51:41.370 --> 02:51:47.970 See in the California rule it you you're allowed a credit process for. 02:51:49.010 --> 02:52:00.810 Reuse or post consumer recycled content if it goes beyond and that individual producer to set up infrastructure for for the community. 02:52:04.470 --> 02:52:08.060 So doesn't that feedback occur with the eco modulation fee? 02:52:08.120 --> 02:52:16.550 If a company has a package that lends itself to reuse, and they help support a movement towards it. 02:52:16.610 --> 02:52:26.130 Aren't they gonna pay lower fees because the well, if they're actually getting their stuff reused, then they wouldn't pay the fee because they wouldn't be putting packaging on. 02:52:26.420 --> 02:52:38.690 But in terms of think so I what I'm imagining is some cereal company decides and here I am not very good at imagining. 02:52:40.520 --> 02:52:44.180 It's ACP, some cereal program. 02:52:44.710 --> 02:52:50.180 Cereal company has a puts like is like you know what, Hannaford? 02:52:50.330 --> 02:52:51.480 Try my thing. 02:52:51.550 --> 02:52:53.080 I'm gonna buy you this. 02:52:54.030 --> 02:52:56.110 bulk dispense system? 02:52:56.990 --> 02:53:12.680 Just put it in your stores and I think what you're suggesting is that they would then say to us, OK, I spent, you know, 100 bucks getting Hannaford to try out this idea. 02:53:13.830 --> 02:53:18.880 I should get credited that against what I'm supposed to pay in for my for my products. 02:53:18.940 --> 02:53:20.200 Is that what you're suggesting? 02:53:20.840 --> 02:53:20.990 Yeah. 02:53:20.490 --> 02:53:21.810 I mean, in a really silly. 02:53:22.730 --> 02:53:23.280 Yes. 02:53:23.290 --> 02:53:43.160 And and and maybe the the point is that should be through the SO as you're saying through eco modulation of their fees, but that that's my thought is that to incentivize it offering some type of credit might make sense. 02:53:43.880 --> 02:53:45.810 Umm yeah, that's the point. 02:53:47.380 --> 02:53:48.670 Yeah, that's an interesting idea. 02:53:48.680 --> 02:53:49.040 Thank you. 02:54:00.220 --> 02:54:00.720 Would it be? 02:54:03.620 --> 02:54:07.570 Appropriate to possibly use those. 02:54:07.620 --> 02:54:18.220 Let's say you're getting 5% of your your investments or 5% of your program costs, whatever it might be, you're getting this amount incoming for reuse. 02:54:19.870 --> 02:54:20.370 Would it be? 02:54:22.340 --> 02:54:23.430 Could it be considered to? 02:54:24.500 --> 02:54:35.190 Incentivize producers to create right reuse systems, possibly through not only through Hannaford, but an alternative collection program. 02:54:35.290 --> 02:54:38.550 And I know that that's gonna require a lot of upfront costs. 02:54:39.060 --> 02:54:48.570 What if that money so that only be used to set up alternative collection programs that are in the reuse arena? 02:54:54.290 --> 02:54:58.360 The time, I mean, I don't just right how much money can wait? 02:54:58.370 --> 02:55:13.810 Maybe producers specific versus you know, maybe there's some of this could be producer specific for their if it's like trying something out versus something that's you normally wouldn't think that we're gonna pay for all of producers specific investments. 02:55:13.820 --> 02:55:17.090 But then you also have these municipalities that are collecting this. 02:55:17.160 --> 02:55:20.270 But for instance, the Smiling Hill farms bottles. 02:55:20.700 --> 02:55:23.610 And that's just by, I think goodwill. 02:55:23.820 --> 02:55:33.960 I mean, they're not being paid to do that, but I wonder if you know these funds could also they're good pay, they got that deposit on those babies. 02:55:34.470 --> 02:55:36.620 But The thing is, the palette is not. 02:55:36.850 --> 02:55:37.130 Yeah. 02:55:39.100 --> 02:55:47.910 So maybe you know, funds are returned to municipalities that are helping to circulate like the municipalities not get is not giving out a deposit perhaps right? 02:55:47.920 --> 02:55:49.750 So then they're just, they're things. 02:55:49.760 --> 02:55:54.390 They're taking it back and then, but they're getting, I think, the musicality in that case is keeping the deposit. 02:55:54.720 --> 02:56:04.680 But anyway, like like I don't think the municipality someones not bringing a smiling hill farms thing to a redemption center municipality and getting a buck that we should probably in that. 02:56:04.690 --> 02:56:06.260 But I guess there's not giving out a bot. 02:56:06.300 --> 02:56:07.160 They're getting the buck. 02:56:07.170 --> 02:56:09.460 OK, I think it's how that working. 02:56:09.510 --> 02:56:11.040 Yeah, just clink. 02:56:11.150 --> 02:56:12.100 Give that money back. 02:56:12.110 --> 02:56:12.740 Give them my back. 02:56:13.550 --> 02:56:17.180 Gives a buck to the consumer, but the deposits more. 02:56:17.730 --> 02:56:19.480 Yeah, the deposit can be like 250. 02:56:19.490 --> 02:56:21.110 Yeah, $3 in some cases. 02:56:23.010 --> 02:56:28.440 But generally speaking, we want smiling helps to be paying for its own system, right? 02:56:28.450 --> 02:56:34.520 Right, in a general sense, we want them to really actually recover their bottles. 02:56:34.530 --> 02:56:36.350 Their recovery is actually quite low. 02:56:36.360 --> 02:56:38.040 Ohh sure they wanted to. 02:56:38.130 --> 02:56:38.960 They want it back. 02:56:38.970 --> 02:56:39.720 I don't think so. 02:56:39.850 --> 02:56:43.130 They charged they charged 3 bucks the possible possible that. 02:56:48.510 --> 02:56:49.600 Sure, they're great. 02:56:49.610 --> 02:56:50.520 Bottles, people. 02:56:50.530 --> 02:56:53.050 They are all the time for other stuff. 02:56:54.950 --> 02:56:55.620 Ice coffee. 02:56:56.590 --> 02:57:02.190 OK, so I need general comments on reuse, but I guess like so can we stay with that idea for a second? 02:57:03.280 --> 02:57:04.340 So there is? 02:57:06.640 --> 02:57:19.640 In a general sense, we like the idea of these reuse systems being producer funded, and yet we're talking about investment funds for reuse that could go to producers. 02:57:20.010 --> 02:57:45.840 And is there a line between what we want is this, you know is is that operational versus capital is that novel versus now this is approving concept you know where do we want producers to be doing the funding versus money coming into push push new systems? 02:57:46.130 --> 02:57:49.840 Yeah, I guess push a change generally that's what it is. 02:57:49.850 --> 02:57:50.350 Change. 02:57:51.420 --> 02:57:55.190 Wouldn't you need supporting infrastructure? 02:57:55.260 --> 02:57:58.060 Is that where it might work for us? 02:57:58.780 --> 02:57:59.550 Like a washer? 02:58:03.320 --> 02:58:03.680 Ranger. 02:58:17.410 --> 02:58:20.060 But if it's OK, ohh, if they were. 02:58:20.070 --> 02:58:43.260 That said, if it's something type of infrastructure at the that can be, utilize that by just like one specific right, but it's somehow universal, universal, like like like every day he goes to yes to a glass bottle smiling bottle and therefore then yeah, that would make sense. 02:58:43.320 --> 02:58:48.810 But if it's just for Smiling Hill, then it doesn't make it doesn't make sense. 02:58:49.310 --> 02:59:03.050 Take out packaging, going, becoming reuse and going through like the MRF, which I think is an idea that's been floated around in other areas of the country. 02:59:03.060 --> 02:59:07.900 But using MRF infrastructure to handle reusables, umm. 02:59:08.110 --> 02:59:15.010 And then get them to a washing facility and then back out into the system like too. 02:59:15.050 --> 02:59:17.500 But that's operational. Yeah. 02:59:17.510 --> 02:59:19.880 So like you'd want that to be. 02:59:20.470 --> 02:59:22.860 You would want whoever is getting those. 02:59:23.450 --> 02:59:31.910 I would think that you would want whoever's getting those reusables from the MRF to be paying for that cost of managing that material, right? 02:59:31.920 --> 02:59:32.350 Or why? 02:59:32.360 --> 02:59:38.490 Or my artificially driving, you know, we aren't expecting that on recycling, its already paid for. 02:59:38.500 --> 02:59:40.730 There's like there's a somebody who owns this right? 02:59:40.740 --> 02:59:51.650 Theoretically, theoretically someone knows that, and so they should be paying to get it back as opposed to like no one owns that like plastic bag at this point. 02:59:51.730 --> 02:59:55.010 Yeah, example that example. 02:59:55.020 --> 02:59:56.550 No plastic bags in MRFS. 02:59:57.140 --> 02:59:59.480 No one owns that box no more. 03:00:01.150 --> 03:00:04.910 He just got Peter, which which you go for it. 03:00:05.910 --> 03:00:06.320 Sure. 03:00:06.330 --> 03:00:33.920 I I again, I thought here I I think where you gonna see a drive on more of a private investment standpoint is when the SO the large group of producers doesn't have the same incentive as a private group of producers what so you may have a group of producers coming around bags or gas cylinders or. 03:00:35.160 --> 03:00:51.840 Uh bottles and say yeah, we want to we want to invest in infrastructure here that will cover reuse and all these areas, but it's it's still a smaller group than that large SO. 03:00:56.350 --> 03:00:56.570 Right. 03:00:56.580 --> 03:00:59.220 So there's a difference between to a certain extent. 03:00:59.230 --> 03:01:03.700 You could almost even if we have our SO, isn't necessarily a producer group. 03:01:13.650 --> 03:01:14.050 Right. 03:01:03.710 --> 03:01:18.330 There's a difference between an investment that producers as a whole see as useful thing versus I'm gonna do because this works for my product and we took that for via, I mean, producers report on an annual basis. 03:01:18.340 --> 03:01:21.770 We could get it that by saying sort of is this interesting to you? 03:01:22.380 --> 03:01:22.670 Mm-hmm. 03:01:23.100 --> 03:01:27.750 Little checkbox and you could get a sense of whether to producers as a whole. 03:01:33.040 --> 03:01:33.240 Yep. 03:01:27.760 --> 03:01:33.760 This is a useful idea to to check out right? 03:01:33.850 --> 03:01:34.260 I am. 03:01:34.270 --> 03:01:39.490 I sort of translating what you said into our situation in a way that makes sense. 03:01:39.880 --> 03:01:40.580 Yes. Yeah. 03:01:45.480 --> 03:01:48.180 And Harvey, you're you're next. 03:01:47.910 --> 03:01:48.320 Yes. 03:01:48.950 --> 03:01:49.540 OK. 03:01:49.550 --> 03:01:53.340 So just a maybe a point to a question of information. 03:01:55.070 --> 03:02:15.720 Has the department studied where is aware of studies recent studies that show the I'll call it environmental cost of washing and what damaged that might do the environment versus versus other methods? 03:02:15.960 --> 03:02:19.470 I imagine there's some negative effects of washing. 03:02:21.260 --> 03:02:21.710 Upstream. 03:02:21.290 --> 03:02:23.070 I don't know what they are and which is better. 03:02:25.590 --> 03:02:34.770 Yeah, I've actually seen some studies that suggest that the washing, even from a water use standpoint, is highly preferable. 03:02:34.780 --> 03:02:41.130 But if you have studies that suggest otherwise and you would like to send them to us, that would be useful if you look. 03:02:43.420 --> 03:02:43.690 Done. 03:02:40.790 --> 03:02:46.260 No, I'm just asking for, you know, just see what the latest version. 03:02:45.200 --> 03:02:46.630 I mean, it's like depend. 03:02:47.260 --> 03:02:55.840 There are certainly situations where, like if you don't, if it doesn't actually get reused and you're making like a like a David. 03:02:55.850 --> 03:02:58.720 Allaways favorite example is the the ice cream container. 03:02:58.730 --> 03:03:01.820 That's like like made out of metal. 03:03:02.210 --> 03:03:04.560 It's a insulated ice cream container. 03:03:04.570 --> 03:03:11.270 If you're not getting that back and reusing it a certain number of times, then your footprint is obviously higher. 03:03:11.280 --> 03:03:16.090 So you need to get that certain level of you know they well. 03:03:16.230 --> 03:03:17.700 What's it called the reuse point? 03:03:17.710 --> 03:03:19.260 The the break even point. 03:03:19.340 --> 03:03:19.650 Yeah. 03:03:19.660 --> 03:03:26.570 Well, just like files, I mean, like you can make a reusable plastic bottle, but it's more robust than a single use one. 03:03:26.700 --> 03:03:28.590 And if but but so. 03:03:28.600 --> 03:03:37.180 But if, but if everybody just treats their reusable plastic bottle as a sitting as a single use, then that's not that. 03:03:37.190 --> 03:03:38.480 It's actually worse. 03:03:38.490 --> 03:03:39.970 Yeah, yeah, I know you do, right? 03:03:39.980 --> 03:03:40.420 Sure. 03:03:40.530 --> 03:03:46.960 Sure, Sydney put this in her comments, but I would just, I would say that they have pretty robust reporting. 03:03:47.270 --> 03:04:12.860 It's called the reuse wins report on their website on Upstream's website, and it shows a lot of those like break even points and they look at it from all sorts of different life cycle kind of perspectives from, you know, a greenhouse gas emissions to water use and all of those different facets of how we would look at this for environmental impact. 03:04:14.440 --> 03:04:17.040 And I think the name of the report says it all. 03:04:17.050 --> 03:04:24.670 That reuse tends to, you know, be victorious on every comparison assuming you hit that right. 03:04:25.070 --> 03:04:25.880 So you like you. 03:04:26.280 --> 03:04:40.110 It's like 3 times you use it three times and you get that break even and for depending on material type 2 some material types you have to use quite a bit more in order to get that break even point. 03:04:40.520 --> 03:04:49.760 But yeah, if you think about 500 disposables versus using one item 500 times, it's it's a far superior option to go reuse. 03:04:50.820 --> 03:04:53.290 But yeah, he say 3 then you're not. 03:04:54.090 --> 03:04:54.880 But which is? 03:04:54.890 --> 03:04:55.400 Yeah. 03:04:55.410 --> 03:04:57.340 So yeah. 03:04:58.460 --> 03:04:59.410 Yeah, but I would. 03:04:59.420 --> 03:05:09.310 I would urge anybody who has questions about it Upstream is really the the experts on all things reusables and they've done a lot of work to gather that information. 03:05:09.320 --> 03:05:13.790 So I would send them there to check out the resources on their website. 03:05:23.130 --> 03:05:24.040 Think I mean soon. 03:05:24.050 --> 03:05:32.340 Just reuse this higher on the waste pyramid thingy, than recycling, yeah, which is why I think it. 03:05:32.390 --> 03:05:36.010 It's important to try to prioritize this where we can, where it's feasible. 03:05:36.860 --> 03:05:41.650 Umm, because again, this is the only Ave within this. 03:05:41.740 --> 03:05:42.690 Yeah, 07. 03:05:42.700 --> 03:05:47.030 Yeah, that we can move something, move something up the hierarchy essentially. 03:05:47.140 --> 03:05:55.910 I mean the eco modulation, we can encourage it, but this is the only way that we can throw investments at that using the structure so. 03:05:58.080 --> 03:05:58.550 Strange. 03:05:59.140 --> 03:05:59.890 So strange. 03:05:59.900 --> 03:06:00.760 So this street. 03:06:07.890 --> 03:06:08.180 Yeah. 03:06:08.190 --> 03:06:15.680 So if somebody were like, OK, I'm gonna install a soda stream it every every one of my grocery stores in the state of Maine. 03:06:19.280 --> 03:06:22.200 Is that something that we would be like, we'll pay for that. 03:06:24.330 --> 03:06:24.940 I guess I've just. 03:06:24.950 --> 03:06:31.140 I've really having trouble understanding trying to make sure I get a good sense of what we feel like should be. 03:06:31.630 --> 03:06:33.060 They're not the producer, right? 03:06:33.070 --> 03:06:41.160 But if not, the different colors polar seltzer comes in and says I'm putting soda streams in Hannaford, rather seltzer. 03:06:41.970 --> 03:06:44.140 Well, so a lot of Irving stations do. 03:06:44.150 --> 03:06:45.580 I mean, that's what they do. 03:06:45.640 --> 03:06:47.480 They have some exactly what they do. 03:06:47.490 --> 03:06:48.940 They have the polar. 03:06:48.950 --> 03:06:49.550 What's it called? 03:06:49.560 --> 03:06:49.990 They give you. 03:06:50.350 --> 03:06:52.390 Styrofoam cup. 03:06:52.400 --> 03:06:54.920 Company to be able to bring your own up. 03:06:54.930 --> 03:06:55.460 Yeah. 03:06:55.530 --> 03:06:56.790 And fill it up. 03:06:56.800 --> 03:06:58.360 You know, I had no idea. 03:06:58.370 --> 03:06:59.240 I never go in. 03:06:59.520 --> 03:07:00.370 Yeah, the fountain. 03:07:00.380 --> 03:07:02.680 The fountain breaks in the back. 03:07:03.180 --> 03:07:08.860 It got reuse happening in McDonald's for yeah, so OK, so right. 03:07:08.870 --> 03:07:11.080 So you need to make sure that it was actually not going. 03:07:11.090 --> 03:07:16.780 See, he wouldn't be able to provide a single use. 03:07:17.290 --> 03:07:20.030 You wouldn't be able to provide a package at that location. 03:07:20.040 --> 03:07:28.700 You would need to either charge for a package right or church, or yeah, you'd have to charge for a package and then someone can bring their own package. 03:07:28.710 --> 03:07:30.390 Or they buy this package. 03:07:32.810 --> 03:07:33.200 Somebody. 03:07:33.210 --> 03:07:45.750 If so, and I guess that's can remember who mentioned it, but that would be one of these things that like potentially you could like put that on a list and then producers when they were reporting could say ohh that doesn't work for my product. 03:07:45.760 --> 03:07:48.710 I'm not interested in that and nobody says yes, except for polar. 03:07:48.810 --> 03:07:53.010 Or it could be that, like every drink manufacturer says yes. 03:07:53.020 --> 03:07:53.340 Yeah. 03:07:53.390 --> 03:07:53.960 Yeah. 03:07:54.170 --> 03:07:55.830 And then that's your line right? 03:07:56.860 --> 03:07:58.280 Then we don't need redemption centers. 03:07:59.380 --> 03:08:00.120 Why were you wanting? 03:08:00.130 --> 03:08:01.610 They could take it further than they could say. 03:08:01.620 --> 03:08:14.150 Like you know, they that could prove, you know, their sales of their dispenser into Maine and then they've, I mean they're servicing the dispenser with with syrup or whatever. 03:08:14.780 --> 03:08:21.550 You know, we prevented the sale of rather than, you know, we've we've had the equivalent of. 03:08:21.600 --> 03:08:21.990 I don't know. 03:08:22.750 --> 03:08:32.970 I would have many liter bottle 1000 liters of bottles was sold at hannaford's through our dispensers opposed to and a bottle or something. 03:08:34.680 --> 03:08:38.630 Now I'm just spitballing, and it's it's 4:09. 03:08:38.720 --> 03:08:43.050 Yeah, we have got to the end of the list, OK. 03:08:46.000 --> 03:08:49.930 The Ohh ready to start we ended up but then she's like never mind. 03:08:51.730 --> 03:08:52.760 Recent back. 03:08:52.770 --> 03:08:54.410 OK, go go for it. 03:08:54.460 --> 03:09:07.910 So I I I find the conversation on reused really interesting because there's a few things happening and one of I was hoping you'd start this section with what the statute says on reuse and if and how it needs to fit into the rules or back to Neal's point. 03:09:07.920 --> 03:09:27.480 If it's more something that should be considered every year in the budget and then allocated proportionally when and where there's opportunity, because I think it would be interesting and and we've gone back and forth between sort of the individual producer and how they would be incentivized in the system to do it on a producer by producer level. 03:09:27.490 --> 03:09:33.590 But there is also equal modulation in this regulation and part of that does acknowledge that reuse. 03:09:34.510 --> 03:09:41.420 So I think when it comes to producers in that competitive space of whether or not to install something, I think that's where it's built in. 03:09:42.770 --> 03:09:59.040 And so I think this conversation was maybe more linked to those sort of infrastructure investments and the example that Sydney has brought up in previous calls was that refillable water station put in by a municipality whereby there's not really a producer attached to it. 03:09:59.050 --> 03:10:03.090 It's a consumer use thing, but it reduces the need for packaging. 03:10:04.270 --> 03:10:08.120 So just think, I think there's a few different like buckets that I would almost put reuse in. 03:10:08.130 --> 03:10:16.020 And one is sort of the producer designed reusable container and infrastructure to support that behind the scenes as you had discussed. 03:10:16.030 --> 03:10:29.180 I think with that milk container versus almost like investment infrastructure that offsets the need for packaging altogether, which is is different, right? 03:10:31.750 --> 03:10:33.290 Interesting thing. 03:10:33.800 --> 03:10:34.630 Yeah, it is. 03:10:34.640 --> 03:10:34.900 It is. 03:10:34.540 --> 03:10:35.000 Yeah. 03:10:35.050 --> 03:10:43.980 Yeah, cause cause in one the producers already getting rewarded well ideally they are because they should be paying less in eco fees because they're extends, you have to do that in Maine. 03:10:44.330 --> 03:10:46.070 But yeah, so I don't know. 03:10:46.080 --> 03:11:05.000 And then it's also, you know, I would step back and were you said though challenging and EPR and I think it's it's a really tough one because you have the very producers that are making packaging and pain into the program trying to sort of make them pay for out designing their own packaging, which is always. 03:11:05.010 --> 03:11:15.040 It's just always interesting, I guess, and maybe not so much of the packaging side as much as other other EPR, where you, you know, have shortened life spans of products, worked with packaging. 03:11:15.050 --> 03:11:19.600 If they're still selling the commodity and they're saving because there's reuse then. 03:11:19.610 --> 03:11:23.920 That's probably a good thing for the producers, as long as you're still buying their product. 03:11:23.930 --> 03:11:34.840 But when Sydney brings up the example of a reusable water station that's very independent of the producers, it's actually sort of anti producers selling water. 03:11:34.850 --> 03:11:46.490 If you're going to have it come from a municipal stream and you refill it so just I think you really need to decide on on where where is you wanna land on that as a DEP. 03:11:46.540 --> 03:11:54.080 And if it's, if it's within this PRO or if the reuse infrastructure should be tied to the packaging or not. 03:11:57.680 --> 03:11:58.130 Very good. 03:11:57.660 --> 03:12:01.130 I'll I'll really good ideas, like really good discussion on. 03:12:01.140 --> 03:12:01.710 I just. 03:12:01.860 --> 03:12:02.810 Yeah, just some though. 03:12:05.430 --> 03:12:06.070 Thank you. 03:12:06.080 --> 03:12:07.300 Thanks and Peter? 03:12:08.430 --> 03:12:08.900 Yeah. 03:12:08.910 --> 03:12:13.620 No, I I kind of had a question for Teresa on on that. 03:12:13.630 --> 03:12:14.440 It was really good. 03:12:14.450 --> 03:12:21.050 Points it I think of the instead of a water dispenser, it's a milk dispenser in the school. 03:12:22.040 --> 03:12:22.890 Yeah, right. 03:12:22.390 --> 03:12:30.420 It but your milk supplier for that type of dispenser is not the same one supplying cartons. 03:12:31.430 --> 03:12:31.650 Mm-hmm. 03:12:30.910 --> 03:12:33.080 You've you're setting up. 03:12:34.030 --> 03:12:58.200 You know a conflict between producers is that, would you envision that working through a PRO or uh, could that be the an individual producers incentive to put those into schools to get, you know that type of you use setup? 03:13:03.150 --> 03:13:12.540 I would think so, because if if it was the same, you know, and I'm, I'm trying to remember Maines exact definition of producer, but it would be the the filler of the carton that would be the producer right? 03:13:12.550 --> 03:13:17.340 So it would be the the dairy that's retailing it. 03:13:17.350 --> 03:13:25.340 So they they would have cost savings because they wouldn't be paying to put that packaging on the marketplace anymore, correct. 03:13:26.290 --> 03:13:28.580 Then you also have milk in your DRS system. 03:13:29.110 --> 03:13:29.380 Do you? 03:13:30.160 --> 03:13:30.600 No, no. 03:13:31.040 --> 03:13:32.130 No, you don't have milk. 03:13:32.140 --> 03:13:32.420 OK. 03:13:32.460 --> 03:13:44.260 So yeah, in in that example then like I think that producer, they're the incentive for them would be that they wouldn't be paying for that carton in the 1st place anymore if they invested in a school system that way. 03:13:44.270 --> 03:13:50.040 So that individual producer would benefit by making that investment in that arrangement with the school. 03:13:53.200 --> 03:14:11.190 I I just think it would be a little bit challenging if I was the producer that made carton milk and another one made the big plastic milk contain, you know, dispensers that would come out of a that type of dispenser. 03:14:12.260 --> 03:14:18.780 That's the the balance that I've I was thinking may not always work through an SO. 03:14:20.610 --> 03:14:29.740 May still wanna be able to incentivize and and Maines got a great alternative incentive program like that. 03:14:29.750 --> 03:14:35.700 But that was my thought process on that is, it may not always work. 03:14:37.150 --> 03:14:44.640 Yes, I I I no longer have milk cartons, but I no longer have my product being sold in schools either. 03:14:44.770 --> 03:14:47.180 I'm not sure if I was that producer. 03:14:48.290 --> 03:14:51.230 I would be behind that as an example. 03:14:53.690 --> 03:14:55.270 No, absolutely, absolutely. 03:14:55.280 --> 03:15:03.160 And I think that's what the the only make that change to reuse if it's if there's going to be some sort of business incentive for them. 03:15:03.170 --> 03:15:14.900 So if they can't get it into the schools through a fountain system or something like you were just discussing on the soda, the soda end, they wouldn't, which had that carton and risk losing the sales? 03:15:17.870 --> 03:15:18.170 Because. 03:15:17.690 --> 03:15:19.950 The you're said sorry, go ahead. 03:15:20.610 --> 03:15:21.290 Let's go ahead. 03:15:22.050 --> 03:15:23.700 So I was just going to please finish. 03:15:23.710 --> 03:15:24.980 I was going to ask you something. 03:15:24.990 --> 03:15:25.590 Clarifying question. 03:15:25.460 --> 03:15:25.850 You know I'm. 03:15:25.860 --> 03:15:26.200 I'm good. 03:15:27.370 --> 03:15:27.810 OK. 03:15:27.820 --> 03:15:42.240 Well, so you're saying that you wouldn't consider the milk dispenser uh, to be another example, a similar example to the water refill system water refill station. 03:15:42.920 --> 03:15:52.730 But I just think there's a disconnect because I think in the milk example, if you have the producer invest in that, they're no longer paying for their carton in the system, but they're still able to sell their milk. 03:15:53.750 --> 03:16:04.140 So they win because they're the eco modulation is there to say you, I mean you payless, because you're selling less containers or you've gotten rid of them all completely. 03:16:04.550 --> 03:16:16.620 But in the water example, the water producers are never benefiting because you can get municipal water in your own metal water bottle you've built, right, like there's no producer connected in that example. 03:16:17.830 --> 03:16:35.660 And so I think when that example has been raised by Sydney, my question is sort of always is it the packaging program's responsibility to invest in those things because it it does sort of put their own producer members out of business to an extent or less in their business because they're selling less water. 03:16:35.790 --> 03:16:45.140 Unless you're actually having those same producer companies feel some sort of water pump that gives you the quality of water, you know it's it's different than a municipal fill station or what. 03:16:45.150 --> 03:16:46.900 You know, I see it in our airports here. 03:16:46.910 --> 03:17:05.360 I don't know if we see it there, but like, we'll have some public rec centers and airports where you can refill your water bottle, but it's municipal water, it's not serviced by a, you know, water manufacturer that that you're not displaced, they're not able to displace the sale of their water in the bottle. 03:17:09.840 --> 03:17:11.390 They're losing the sale, right? 03:17:11.490 --> 03:17:11.630 Yeah. 03:17:12.210 --> 03:17:15.130 Because they're not selling you the water if it's coming from the municpality. 03:17:15.140 --> 03:17:16.260 So that's why I think it's always. 03:17:16.270 --> 03:17:35.620 It's a bit funny in a in a stewardship program that's, you know, owned, operated, financed by producers to, you know, sort of bring in other things that then just take away sales from their producers versus switch versus the milk example where they're switching the format, they're saving money and they're still selling their stuff. 03:17:43.000 --> 03:18:02.340 You have a follow up comment from from here that looks more OK our schools, colleges and all that being considered consumers, so packaging that goes to say a college or a school gets paid for by Big General Mills, whoever it is. 03:18:03.020 --> 03:18:07.060 But the Towns act separately from schools. 03:18:07.070 --> 03:18:12.230 Usually there are separate corporation town doesn't have a say in what happens to recycling there. 03:18:13.290 --> 03:18:17.970 Sometimes garbage, Even so where does that money end up going? 03:18:18.420 --> 03:18:25.210 That General Mills or whatever pays in because the town did go back tool. 03:18:26.740 --> 03:18:27.570 I'm just curious. 03:18:27.580 --> 03:18:28.330 I think that's that's. 03:18:29.230 --> 03:18:33.720 That's where our current straw man draft has it going. 03:18:34.210 --> 03:18:35.380 And into the education fund. 03:18:35.390 --> 03:18:46.300 So it'd be in that amount of money that is not being claimed by municipalities paid in for something that's recyclable but not being claimed by municipalities. 03:18:47.340 --> 03:18:51.010 So a dairy would benefit from not paying for packaging. 03:18:51.380 --> 03:18:56.960 However, when the milk is dispensed at the school, who pays for that packaging? 03:18:57.280 --> 03:18:58.990 Like with the, dispenser itself. 03:18:59.000 --> 03:19:00.790 Uh, but you've got everything. 03:19:00.800 --> 03:19:06.690 Ideally not putting it into a single use cup, you know not every kid's gonna bring it dirty milk cup and run around the school. 03:19:06.700 --> 03:19:08.370 That and they put a dishwater. 03:19:08.640 --> 03:19:10.050 Put a dishwasher in the school. 03:19:10.500 --> 03:19:13.310 I would or like a soda stream. 03:19:13.320 --> 03:19:14.950 Will it be a soda stream in the school? 03:19:14.960 --> 03:19:20.070 Do that cause they've got the reusable trays, metal utensils, plastic. 03:19:20.130 --> 03:19:30.050 Yeah, I mean we we fund those projects at NRCM all the time they took the call from washing things, you know, school, my day, all the schools did. 03:19:30.060 --> 03:19:35.960 Yeah, they used to all do it and then they got rid of their reusables and went to single use for some crazy reason. 03:19:35.970 --> 03:19:37.850 And then now they're trying to go back. 03:19:38.920 --> 03:19:40.080 That makes sense. 03:19:40.260 --> 03:19:43.590 Yeah, my day, milk was that was given to you in a single carton. 03:19:44.940 --> 03:19:45.790 That's the one. 03:19:46.150 --> 03:19:56.440 I think those milk dispensers could also be funded by that that bucket of reuse as well, not necessarily by the producer. 03:19:57.730 --> 03:20:00.090 And Harvey's got his hand up. 03:20:02.790 --> 03:20:09.140 Yes, uh, don't forget there are other downstream effects. 03:20:09.670 --> 03:20:12.060 So you have a carton producer. 03:20:12.070 --> 03:20:19.480 Let's say in Maine that now it's not selling cartoons anymore and closing down their plant, which means lost jobs. 03:20:20.620 --> 03:20:25.500 So there are, you know, there's winners and losers. 03:20:25.510 --> 03:20:26.470 And all of these things. 03:20:28.800 --> 03:20:37.960 Just to point to make the other thing is, I'm just envisioning at lunchtime when the kids buy milk. 03:20:39.790 --> 03:20:43.300 How convenient is it to get out of a of a dispenser? 03:20:43.310 --> 03:20:58.330 Is that even practical and the other point on water people have the choice of getting bottled water or going to a fountain now, so I'm not sure that, you know, refilling a water bottle. 03:21:00.910 --> 03:21:02.220 What kind of effect that has? 03:21:02.230 --> 03:21:07.660 Because some people might just affect having, uh, buying the bottled water because it tastes better. 03:21:08.870 --> 03:21:09.660 So lots. 03:21:09.670 --> 03:21:11.690 Lots of effects on all this. 03:21:16.970 --> 03:21:17.270 Thank you. 03:21:19.460 --> 03:21:21.770 They'll be great discussions in the future. 03:21:21.880 --> 03:21:23.650 Well, it's dependent on being there. 03:21:29.730 --> 03:21:31.160 The Oak Tree Center. 03:21:32.290 --> 03:22:00.810 I have one clarifying question for something that was just said on just sort of how producers pay into the system and whether they're paying on everything they sell or whether that might be of sort of proportional estimate is that I'm assuming that the answer to that is unknown and that will be part of the fees conversation in July or is or is there sort of a decision point there that producers pay on all packaging, but they're just funding the collection from municipalities? 03:22:04.980 --> 03:22:09.530 The statute says to be on a per ton basis. 03:22:09.540 --> 03:22:14.210 I believe they're bringing in to the state. Yeah. Yeah. 03:22:14.220 --> 03:22:15.570 So I think the statute says, yeah. 03:22:15.320 --> 03:22:22.930 As I said, they would be paying it based on everything they sell, regardless of its endpoint in the system and whether the responsible for that end point. 03:22:34.280 --> 03:22:34.520 OK. 03:22:25.020 --> 03:22:42.970 Based on things that are going to end up with a consumer of the product, which in some places is gonna be is who's consuming the product experience, we have municipalities that aren't participating in the readily recyclable who are not receiving the reimbursement. 03:22:42.980 --> 03:22:50.630 That money would then be redirected into this fund for investment, but it's it's not like a umm. 03:22:51.060 --> 03:22:59.820 So when the Canadian systems right, there's a you're basically paying for what's collected as as recycling in large part. 03:23:00.650 --> 03:23:12.570 Wanna producers pay in based on some sort of behind the scenes accounting of where they think the packaging will end up, whether it's obligated or not because a lot of them don't include industrial, commercial and institutional settings. 03:23:14.010 --> 03:23:15.360 Yeah, that was it was just a nuance. 03:23:15.370 --> 03:23:16.320 I wasn't clear until now. 03:23:16.330 --> 03:23:16.730 Thank you. 03:23:20.790 --> 03:23:37.760 But I think I think you're maybe I'm misunderstanding your question, but I think your question had to do with like is is the total amount or producers paying their share of the total amount that they expect is gonna be needed to handle the material versus are they paying per ton for what they put in, correct? 03:23:37.770 --> 03:23:38.500 That was your question. 03:23:39.750 --> 03:23:42.000 Umm, no, it's it's are they paying? 03:23:42.010 --> 03:23:43.550 How are they calculating the per time? 03:23:43.570 --> 03:23:48.820 Cause the you're going to know what you need to fund the system and what you want in your. 03:23:49.330 --> 03:23:49.670 Right. 03:23:49.100 --> 03:23:59.970 You know, in this infrastructure fund and your payments to municipalities, but I think then when you go to producer fees, you're going to say, OK, here's here's this basket and this is how Quebec does it. 03:23:59.980 --> 03:24:00.140 Right. 03:24:00.150 --> 03:24:02.230 Here's what it costs for municipalities in our program. 03:24:02.240 --> 03:24:17.260 We need, you know, you know $1,000,000 and then on the producer side, how they pay into that or they count that in a lot of Canadian systems they pay based on what's they believe is destined for residential setting. 03:24:17.270 --> 03:24:24.680 So they don't pay for commercially consumed stuff, even though goes to the consumer, they pay based on that residential. 03:24:25.970 --> 03:24:31.810 Endpoint and then so the fees by material type are calculated based on those volumes. 03:24:33.080 --> 03:24:33.890 So it doesn't it. 03:24:33.980 --> 03:24:36.420 You know what you need to run the program is never going to change. 03:24:36.430 --> 03:24:40.040 It's how producers report in and how they pay for what they bring into the marketplace. 03:24:40.530 --> 03:24:54.510 And I think what you've said is it's going to be everything that comes in intended to be consumed at the consumer side versus anticipated collections spaces, if that makes sense. 03:24:56.390 --> 03:24:56.530 Yes. 03:24:55.300 --> 03:24:57.190 It's a fees conversation, but I. 03:24:57.990 --> 03:24:58.210 Yeah. 03:24:57.240 --> 03:24:59.160 Yeah, go ahead now. 03:25:01.170 --> 03:25:01.740 I was. 03:25:01.830 --> 03:25:03.680 I was just gonna say I I I think you're. 03:25:03.860 --> 03:25:09.580 You're right in that it's very like diametrically different from what's happening in in Quebec. 03:25:09.590 --> 03:25:21.940 It sounds like in that they are being charged by what's actually sold, so I would you know, we're not into the fees stuff yet, but I would presume that a skew. 03:25:21.950 --> 03:25:40.540 Would you know have some sort of packaging metadata attached to it such that you would know how much cellophane and how much foam and how much cardboard would be on a particular skew and you would know I we sold 5,000,000 units of these. 03:25:40.870 --> 03:25:47.850 You know, cellophane weighs this cardstock, weighs this phone, weighs this, you know, total them up. 03:25:47.860 --> 03:25:56.710 And that's how much you how much your fees are based on what it takes to recycle those materials prudely. 03:26:00.900 --> 03:26:01.520 Does that make sense? 03:26:02.380 --> 03:26:03.190 That does make sense. 03:26:03.790 --> 03:26:03.990 OK. 03:26:03.200 --> 03:26:05.110 Yet that's the initial clarification I was. 03:26:05.120 --> 03:26:07.610 That's what I assumed the conversation was, or what was that? 03:26:07.620 --> 03:26:09.300 I just wanted to be sure I had it right. 03:26:09.920 --> 03:26:10.050 Yeah. 03:26:09.740 --> 03:26:10.160 Thank you. 03:26:12.290 --> 03:26:16.990 Yep, one more a gallon of mayonnaise sold to a consumer. 03:26:18.290 --> 03:26:20.010 They pay for Kraft. 03:26:20.020 --> 03:26:23.680 You charge craft the gallon of mayonnaise goes to a school. 03:26:23.690 --> 03:26:29.670 Craft pays the gallon of mayonnaise goes to Umm Longhorn restaurant. 03:26:29.860 --> 03:26:30.450 They don't pay. 03:26:31.500 --> 03:26:34.930 But what if you sell a gallon of mayonnaise to Sam's Club and Longhorn? 03:26:34.940 --> 03:26:36.770 Or some small restaurant goes there and buys it. 03:26:38.630 --> 03:26:46.540 How do you get the right amount of money from Kraft and that could be for pizza sauce or any of the higher big kings. 03:26:47.150 --> 03:26:55.190 So if Longhorn restaurant buys a gallon of mayonnaise to use to make it's, I don't know what Longhorn sells, right you used to make its tartar sauce. 03:26:56.290 --> 03:26:59.860 Then it's the consumer Longhorn restaurant. 03:26:59.870 --> 03:27:03.150 Is the consumer of that mayonnaise that's still included. 03:27:03.160 --> 03:27:05.510 That's still gonna have to pay on all crafts. 03:27:05.520 --> 03:27:06.220 Just one question. 03:27:06.230 --> 03:27:31.340 There are gonna be some situations, say the example that we've thought of is, umm, large appliances out of like a Home Depot Lowe's situation that sometimes get just picked up by the consumer and taken home in their truck with all the packaging and sometimes get installed and the packaging is not kept. 03:27:31.670 --> 03:27:48.550 And I think what we're thinking is that it's on the producer to know the extent to which packaging is is being, you know, the the producer would have to assume that it's being left with the consumer unless it has information about. 03:27:49.070 --> 03:27:49.550 Yeah. 03:27:49.770 --> 03:27:51.420 And the packaging being brought back? 03:27:53.740 --> 03:27:55.070 I think that's a safe assumption. 03:27:56.320 --> 03:27:58.540 More often than not, it's left with the consumer. 03:28:00.800 --> 03:28:06.720 Yeah, lot of people just stick the whole thing in the back of their truck to do it themselves. 03:28:06.740 --> 03:28:12.560 If you buy a mattress and Martin say you take it home, rip the plastic off, you're responsible to throw it away. 03:28:13.620 --> 03:28:16.250 My little local manager store will bring it to the house. 03:28:16.260 --> 03:28:17.230 Rip the plastic off. 03:28:17.240 --> 03:28:20.220 Take it back when it's but how would you know who's? 03:28:21.580 --> 03:28:26.080 I think you assumed that it didn't get taken back unless you have information to the contrary, right? 03:28:27.610 --> 03:28:29.270 But we've sort of been talking about. 03:28:38.000 --> 03:28:39.920 Safely done. 03:28:41.260 --> 03:28:43.140 Anyone else have any last? 03:28:45.700 --> 03:28:49.440 Last comments before we wrap up today's session. 03:28:54.000 --> 03:28:57.640 Seeing none, it's a rap when's the next meeting? 03:28:59.780 --> 03:29:07.450 July It is in July, July, July is the next meeting and the topic is producer fees. 03:29:08.780 --> 03:29:09.420 Ooh. 03:29:08.000 --> 03:29:11.100 Thanks everyone for participating. Yeah. 03:29:12.700 --> 03:29:15.810 Have a have an enjoyable running together. 03:29:15.820 --> 03:29:17.390 Have an enjoyable June. 03:29:19.230 --> 03:29:19.840 Gonna get juicy. 03:29:20.980 --> 03:29:22.250 Thank you for hearing us. 03:29:23.610 --> 03:29:23.840 Sure. 03:29:24.030 --> 03:29:25.830 Thank you for being here. 03:29:27.870 --> 03:29:28.220 OK. 03:29:28.630 --> 03:29:29.350 Bye everyone. 03:29:29.360 --> 03:29:29.520 Bye. 03:29:30.240 --> 03:29:30.460 Bye bye. 03:29:31.610 --> 03:29:32.110 I'm tired.