WEBVTT

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<v Bertocci, Elena>So.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>Gonna turn off the chat.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>Chat actually got through settings, isn't it?</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>No, that makes settings.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>Channel but save it.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>I forgot to save, alright.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>OK.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>Say great. OK.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>Hi everyone I wanna thank you for attending the departments stakeholder meetings for the Extended Producer Responsibility Program for Packaging.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>I am Brian Beneski, the head of the Department Sustainability Unit, and I will be handling technical issues of the meeting also like to introduce Elena Bertocci and Jessica Nadeau.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>They are in the Sustainability Unit and are the staff in charge of implementing the EPR for packaging program.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>They will be acting as the moderators for this meeting, although we've had many meetings now and this is our last, there's still may be some technical bumps that arise.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>So I ask for everyone's patience when those happen.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>These meetings are part of the stakeholder process initiated by the Department.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>This meeting is regarding alternative collection programs.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>This meeting is provide a chance for stakeholders to present comments and allow all the stakeholders to review what's said and discuss that we will make sure that everyone who wishes to make a statement or ask a question will get a chance to do so, and we did send out the background document for this two weeks ago.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>Now I'd like to add that this meeting is being recorded and that the recording should be available within the next week or so.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>Additionally, a transcript will also be made of this meeting and that should also be available with any additional comments that we receive through a link on the program's website.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>The information from all the comments submitted and these discussions will be used as the basis for drafting rules that will be submitted to the Board of Environmental Protection as part of the formal rulemaking process in December of 23 comments.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>Comment submittal is not limited to attendees of this meeting.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>The department will accept all comments for consideration that are submitted in writing new or additional comments can be presented at any time through the EPR packaging email address found on the website.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>We currently have about 45 people who are registered to attend this meeting.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>As this is both a person and in virtual meeting we asked that those who wish to speak raise their hand and hold your statements until I have a chance to mic you you're not have to be attending in person to ask questions or make a statement.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>Just use the raise hand feature.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>I'll now hand the meeting over to Elena and Jessica.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>All right.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>So this meeting is different than the prior because we just have the one meeting for alternative collection programs.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>So we'll have a comment sharing session and then or we'll just start with comments.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>And if those create discussion after being shared, then we'll just we'll just let that happen.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>Yeah.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>OK, because it be more of a free free flow of ideas right off the bat as opposed to the past meetings where we had two where one was comments and then the other was the opportunity to review them.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>OK, we're gonna do it all.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>This one so.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>So we had a few attendees register and and identify that they got comments to share that you can put your hand up at this time.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>If you do have comments to share, we'll get a queue made of those individuals.</v>

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<v Bertocci, Elena>Ohh.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>Now we've got some RPM has comments they mentioned and AMERIPEN also mention that they had comments to share.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>But no one's.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>Ohh Andy.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>Nice.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>I'll make you a presenter.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>So my power is out, so I'm doing this from my phone and apologize for the informal nature.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>Do you understand?</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>I had notes that were on my computer and has and that has sat down, so my whole neighborhood is out.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>It's one of those days, but appreciate the opportunity always for the department to to hold these sessions.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>Andy Hackman, on behalf of AMERIPEN.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>And AMERIPEN represents the entire packaging supply chain.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>Just thinking generally about what I think I wrote with regard to alternative control programs or collection programs.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>Obviously, there's probably gonna be the most interest in this category of.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>Compliance structure relative to things that are unique or niche products it it's what the address them outside of the existing curbside infrastructure that's largely I think the focus it reimbursement structure of the program and the PRO's activities.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>I I think it's important as these programs are approved that there is coordination between stweardship organization and an understanding of the types of packages that would exist in this alternative collection program space.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>The wall obviously references calculations it relevant to a particular packaging type that's not collected.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>Through the the system, or sorry through the the producer run alternative collection program and it's still potentially being collected through the other system or through the existing system, or managed in some other way.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>And calculations made for that, I think we understand how that will work, but there will likely need to be that coordination between those producers that are in an alternative collection system and and the existing stewardship organization and in terms of sort of thinking about the questions.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>And again, I'm I'm truly doing this off the top of my head.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>Unfortunately, at this point, you know in in terms of reporting for these programs, the threshold for approval, it would encourage the department to allow there to be innovation in this space because I do think that there is potential that alternative collection programs might be a way to to pilot some ways at achieving infrastructure and we're dedicated way you know we've had a lot of discussion over the past months about the existing system is funded and how we invest in infrastructure.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>But if there's a forward leaning sector of of packaging that or because of the nature of the products, you know there might be some products that lend themselves more to an alternative collection program because they they, you know, contain materials that might be not desirable to have to manage in the in the existing stream etcetera.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>So I think there's gonna be unique interest in this section for compliance and encourage the department not to establish sort of any preconceived thresholds about, you know, immediately having particular degrees of access across the state as as the ability for particular sectors to create infrastructure here might be more targeted and and and and I won't say productive but focused on on their industry and achieving.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>Compliance or achieving a pathway to recyclability, reusability which could also potentially, I think, qualify as an alternative collection program if it's a reusable infrastructure that might be piloted in in that type of program, I think there will be some potential too that alternative collection programs eventually are converted into being managed by the larger stewardship organization.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>But I do think this is one of the areas where the law may be allows for.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>Perhaps the greatest amount of innovation.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>Relative to.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>Creating new infrastructure within sort of the producer community, there's a lot of concern around subsidization of of materials to other materials and you know, will this pay for our infrastructure?</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>I know there's been sort of that dialogue around compostables and compostable packaging and and I think that this Ave is something that may be appealing for certain sectors to really have their industry able to focus on the development in the state of infrastructure that moves there, their packaging to greater recyclability, circularity and and and potentially reusability.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>So that's just kind of an overarching comment about, I guess the the potential for for this program.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>I'm happy to sort of answer any questions that I can't think of off the top of my head that we're in the background documents because I'm not as good at going back and forth between screens and I'll probably hang up on on the webinar if I end up doing that too often.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>So I appreciate the time.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>We'll have more deep comments.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>We are planning a detailed set of comments on the previous topic and this one that will be submitted, God willing before Labor Day and that's it.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>Thank you.</v>

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<v Bertocci, Elena>So.</v>

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<v Bertocci, Elena>So, umm, you you mentioned this statewide access.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>Umm.</v>

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<v Bertocci, Elena>You and Sarah Nichols are on the same page on this one, which is doesn't always happen.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>It's two sessions in a row.</v>

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<v Bertocci, Elena>Umm, but it is nice.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>When we did agree, yeah.</v>

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<v Bertocci, Elena>Yeah.</v>

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<v Bertocci, Elena>Which makes me feel like it's an idea that we need to consider, right?</v>

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<v Bertocci, Elena>In particular, all ideas should be considered, but so law requires statewide access.</v>

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<v Bertocci, Elena>It sounds like you're saying OK statewide access, but maybe after three years, four years to like the plans are approved for five years.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>Mm-hmm.</v>

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<v Bertocci, Elena>Uh.</v>

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<v Bertocci, Elena>The law gives three years for you to actually make the material go towards recycling or reuse as opposed to just incineration.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>Uh-huh.</v>

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<v Bertocci, Elena>Do you think that's like an appropriate place to place that statewide requirement at that three years too?</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>Yeah.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>And he defined what statewide it means in the sense of that doesn't necessarily mean that you've got a collection point within 5 miles of of every 10,000 people.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>Like we don't have that specific threshold yet, do we?</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>And that's that's truly a question because I, you know, what qualifies is statewide access.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>You know is different.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>I've thought about sort of my own transfer station and for me it's, you know, 5 miles.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>But for other members of the community, it's it's a 15 to 20 minute drive to get to our transfer station, which is is how I manage my recyclables.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>So I do think greater flexibility in that in that first three years is is probably appropriate if given the the the threshold to sort of move towards or away from inner incineration as as the the the methodology I I think some of it too is is probably discretion that that you need to reserve as the department to look at the plan like if it's a credible plan like and has.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>Significant buy in from the producer community.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>It actually has existing relationships with haulers and and you know ability to access the material across the state potentially and has you know there there's some programs out there.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>I still work.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>Raised his hand and he that that have a track record of of performance in this area you know already in the state there might be some that are newer on on the the spectrum but particularly those organizations that do have an existing track and should be evaluated obviously on a case by case basis.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>So I do think the department should reserve a decent amount of.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>Regulatory language and discretion here that allows you to judge, you know, each sort of application on a case by case basis.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>And the more credible the plan for achieving statewide access and what that looks like and and perhaps some discretion to the department and to the the the entities petitioning the department for approval of alternative collection program and some discretion for a dialogue to happen there, you know like how are we gonna get to, you know, Caribou and and what does that look like in terms of scaling up access in that area?</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>Is it you know it is something you you you would need to evaluate but it may may not be able to put that in the regulatory text in a formal way.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>So I do think you know, to your point about timeframes.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>Yes, particularly in those first three years, I think additional discretion will be helpful if there's somebody that walks in and and it's it's too companies and and they make it really unique niche product or packaging type and you know they're they're gonna use drones to my favorite idea, they're gonna use drones to pick it up across the state.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>I don't know if that's gonna happen in the first three years.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>Like, I don't think that's that's you know.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>So you need to allow yourself that discretion to be like, you know, this crazy Hackman idea of about drones picking up my, you know, six pack rings or whatever.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>I'm not picking on 6 pack rings because I get yelled at every time I throw an example out there from different folks in in our producers community.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>But like that idea, you know may not be as credible as somebody you know that has operated, you know, for example the alternative collection program, which I'm sure Mark will speak after me.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>You know there has a track record of doing this has.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>Significant coverage in the industry, that's also one thing that the department may consider and and sort of discretionary language around the idea that, yeah, the coverage of the industry, right, like if you've got 80% of the producers of a particular packaging time in this program, you know that obviously is is, should, should be given weight within whether or not the program is actually gonna be funded at a level and have the data that it needs, you know, OK.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>And then just, you know, if you've got two or three companies here and two or three companies there like there's a pretty obvious case to potentially deny a alternative collection program if it's not significantly any representative of the, the the marketplace for that packaging type, you know, language like that might be a way for for the department to reserve something that discretion and ability to deny, but also ability to work on a case by case basis.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>You know, with those groups that come forward and have potential solutions here, I don't think personally it's gonna be a lot, to be honest.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>Can this area give the dialogue that within our communities around how how to comply in the four States and I I you know, I think it is gonna be unique approaches and then in some sectors you know where they have existing programs or have it packaging types that have more challenges in the existing stream or have a main will be unique because there's less touch points between the hollers.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>But there are some holes that will say, you know, we'll we'll you know those oil containers, but technically those are aren't health, so it hazardous waste if they've been drained properly.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>It's an HDPE container and could go into the existing collection system, but that industry might have interest in saying look, you know, we're gonna work with a household hazardous waste collector to take our packaging and that's gonna be an alternative collection program.</v>

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<v Andy Hackman>So long winded answer Elena, sorry to short question but there you go.</v>

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<v Bertocci, Elena>No, that's great.</v>

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<v Bertocci, Elena>Thank you.</v>

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<v Bertocci, Elena>I'm sure Mark has something really related I'm imagining.</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>Yes, Mark, we've made you a presenter, so go forth.</v>

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<v Mark Hudson>Hey, thank you. Appreciate it.</v>

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<v Mark Hudson>Good afternoon.</v>

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<v Mark Hudson>Are you all able to hear me OK?</v>

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<v Nadeau, Jessica>Yes.</v>

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<v Mark Hudson>Right.</v>

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<v Mark Hudson>Sorry, I'm operating from a car this afternoon, so not quite as is in a place where I've got all my thoughts out in front of me, but I will.</v>

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<v Mark Hudson>This is obviously something as Andy has already alluded, that's near and dear to my heart and our program and so would like to just make a few comments relative to convenience and the statewide aspect.</v>

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<v Mark Hudson>So again, Mark Hudson.</v>

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<v Mark Hudson>Umm, I'm the executive director of the AG Container Recycling Council.</v>

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<v Mark Hudson>For those that are not familiar with us, we are a a nationwide stewardship program on behalf of the AG chemicals industry.</v>

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<v Mark Hudson>We've been operating this program for 31 years.</v>

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<v Mark Hudson>We provide collection of empty triple rinsed ag containers in 46 states across the country and when we talk about AG containers, it's virtually all types of ad chemicals that would include pesticides, but also include things like fertilizers, animal health products.</v>

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<v Mark Hudson>Micronutrients.</v>

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<v Mark Hudson>Specialty pest control products, adjuvants and surfactants, which are also broadly used by all segments of the ag industry and essentially we collect these empty containers from a wide variety of collection sites, which can include on farm but also at AG.</v>

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<v Mark Hudson>Retail includes groups like forestry, even at golf courses and nurseries and greenhouses.</v>

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<v Mark Hudson>Umm, professional applicators like aerial applicators and ground applicators?</v>

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<v Mark Hudson>Those would all be examples of the types of collection sites where our contractors collect these empty plastic containers.</v>

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<v Mark Hudson>So I think the just a couple of comments around convenience and the statewide aspect that at least for us and I recognize that we are quite unique and very, very different from many of the other aspects of municipal recycling of packaging and plastics packaging.</v>

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<v Mark Hudson>That uh is really the what?</v>

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<v Mark Hudson>What has driven many of these EPR laws that said, we would certainly look for the department to?</v>

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<v Mark Hudson>Consider the fact that we are a significant part of the recycling community and would like to make sure that the considerations that we have to deal with are also factored in.</v>

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<v Mark Hudson>So when we think about convenience and the statewide component, umm, unlike, maybe the areas that are MRF, would service generally those are in more urban or suburban districts at least more so than rural areas were kind of quite the opposite where our program has much more bearing in rural or farm communities, maybe more so than in urban areas.</v>

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<v Mark Hudson>And so we we would typically be more active in those rural communities than we would in, in an urban district.</v>

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<v Mark Hudson>And we're gonna be likely to have our collection sites typically more located in areas where these products are being used.</v>

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<v Mark Hudson>And so, generally speaking, at least in terms of quantities, these products are gonna be used in areas where agriculture is taking place and where we're farming is taking place and not, you know, in the the concrete streets of of a downtown urban center.</v>

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<v Mark Hudson>So that's a, you know, one of the things that we would certainly want to be factored in when it comes to convenience is we're trying to make our service convenient for the folks that are the end users of our program.</v>

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<v Mark Hudson>So I think the the end user of the type of packaging.</v>

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<v Mark Hudson>Umm, very much has to be an aspect of of how the state looks at this.</v>

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<v Mark Hudson>Umm, I think another thing is is does the alternative collection program which I I would like to think that the ACRC program would be considered as a alternative collection program that the percentage of end users that our program is designed to service.</v>

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<v Mark Hudson>If you look at the percentage of those end users that's being covered, I think that would be a critical metric or a critical factor that the state would consider.</v>

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<v Mark Hudson>So let's just take farmers as an example.</v>

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<v Mark Hudson>Certainly you would hope that our program is set up to try to service as broad a percentage of of the farming community as possible, but maybe not the same percentage of people in a in an urban district where these products are not being used as as widely.</v>

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<v Mark Hudson>Then another factor would be the percentage of collections.</v>

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<v Bertocci, Elena>It's not just thinking.</v>

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<v Mark Hudson>Is our program adequate adequately, you know, represented in terms of the percent collection of the products that are sold into the state of Maine.</v>

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<v Mark Hudson>You know, looking at, you know, what percentage of those products are we accounted accounting for in terms of the collection from our program.</v>

00:23:11.510 --> 00:23:28.120
<v Mark Hudson>The other thing that would be my last comment is just considering the unique handling requirements and so recognizing that you know our program exists because of the uniqueness of the products that are sold in, in this packaging.</v>

00:23:28.550 --> 00:23:37.720
<v Mark Hudson>And so trying to make sure that empty chemical containers are properly and safely stewarded from an environmental health and safety perspective.</v>

00:23:38.210 --> 00:23:48.900
<v Mark Hudson>And that, you know, we don't have the exact same requirements for a program like ours as you might have for your local municipal MRF.</v>

00:23:49.100 --> 00:24:01.610
<v Mark Hudson>And that's the reason why we have a network of contractors that all have the same types of training and requirements that they have to meet to participate in as as contractors in our program.</v>

00:24:03.200 --> 00:24:20.740
<v Mark Hudson>You know that's a key aspect of and then this helped to drive the success of the ACRC program and we would certainly hope that the department would recognize the importance of that and and take that into consideration as you think about both convenience and the statewide component.</v>

00:24:21.880 --> 00:24:25.330
<v Mark Hudson>But that is just a a number of bullet points.</v>

00:24:25.640 --> 00:24:27.370
<v Mark Hudson>I don't know Elena or others.</v>

00:24:27.380 --> 00:25:00.610
<v Mark Hudson>If you have any questions around any of that, but I would absolutely say that the the convenience factor and the statewide aspect is in the language, definitely something that we are concerned about because we don't want to be penalized if you will, as a program because of there there's so many unique aspects to the to the products that we're trying to address relative to just your local curbside recycling activities.</v>

00:25:02.620 --> 00:25:03.000
<v Bertocci, Elena>Yeah.</v>

00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:03.060
<v Mark Hudson>So I'll stop there.</v>

00:25:03.010 --> 00:25:19.700
<v Bertocci, Elena>You you mentioned the results based you know percentage of containers received back which to me I mean that's how a lot of programs decide whether you're sufficiently convenient, right is are you getting whatever it is percentage of of containers?</v>

00:25:20.400 --> 00:25:32.700
<v Bertocci, Elena>Umm and I, I would think that it we might be able to do something like that and say, well, you've got statewide convenient access if you're getting this much percent of the the containers potentially.</v>

00:25:32.710 --> 00:25:35.940
<v Bertocci, Elena>I mean, I don't know what we can do at the moment, but that sounds reasonable to me.</v>

00:25:37.520 --> 00:25:39.170
<v Bertocci, Elena>Do you have any thoughts on that number?</v>

00:25:41.410 --> 00:25:42.880
<v Bertocci, Elena>Do you know your current numbers are?</v>

00:25:43.530 --> 00:25:44.310
<v Bertocci, Elena>Maybe you don't want to say.</v>

00:25:43.770 --> 00:25:44.480
<v Mark Hudson>Well, we do.</v>

00:25:44.570 --> 00:25:58.550
<v Mark Hudson>Yeah, we do on a a nationwide level, but I would, I would say that you know, I think in a state like Maine, I mean part of the challenge that we face is that we can't control the end user, right.</v>

00:25:59.140 --> 00:25:59.370
<v Bertocci, Elena>Umm.</v>

00:25:58.560 --> 00:26:05.830
<v Mark Hudson>The decisions we're we're only as good as the end users willingness to bring the pack, make the packaging available to us. Right.</v>

00:26:05.840 --> 00:26:13.170
<v Mark Hudson>So that's also one of the challenges and and so part of the mission of the ACRC is education and training.</v>

00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:27.550
<v Mark Hudson>So it's really, I find it very interesting that all of these EPR laws that have either passed or being considered a key fundamental aspect is education and community outreach.</v>

00:26:27.820 --> 00:26:29.680
<v Mark Hudson>And that's a very big part of what we do.</v>

00:26:29.690 --> 00:26:36.610
<v Mark Hudson>And the reason that we have to do that is for the very reason I think that's it's specified in these laws is to try to get people to do the right thing.</v>

00:26:37.730 --> 00:26:39.260
<v Mark Hudson>And so that takes time.</v>

00:26:39.370 --> 00:26:39.700
<v Mark Hudson>Alright.</v>

00:26:39.710 --> 00:26:51.560
<v Mark Hudson>And so we we have just gone through a period of sort of revamping our footprint and Maine, you know we were working with a a couple of MRFs in Maine.</v>

00:26:52.130 --> 00:27:11.360
<v Mark Hudson>We've chosen to move away from that specifically because those locations were bailing the plastic and the way we prefer to operate is to not bail until our contractors have had a chance to inspect all of the containers, which is a whole nother discussion that we could have.</v>

00:27:11.370 --> 00:27:22.910
<v Mark Hudson>But you know we we are in the process of trying to establish AG retail currently as the primary footprint for collection sites in Maine.</v>

00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:45.150
<v Mark Hudson>But we're also working with some large forms, and so I I would say to answer your question, Elena, you know I think a number, you know, certainly north of 40 or 50% would certainly indicate credibility that we are making it a significant impact and that our goal would be to grow from there, right.</v>

00:27:45.160 --> 00:27:51.040
<v Mark Hudson>And so there's parts of the country where we're above that and other parts of the country where we're not.</v>

00:27:51.100 --> 00:27:52.790
<v Mark Hudson>But our goal is to continue to grow that.</v>

00:27:56.230 --> 00:28:00.680
<v Mark Hudson>And I would say in Maine, we're probably above that the other.</v>

00:28:00.690 --> 00:28:10.160
<v Mark Hudson>The other thing that's a an aspect of that question is we can only speak to what our Members are reporting to us.</v>

00:28:10.270 --> 00:28:20.050
<v Mark Hudson>So right now in virtually everywhere we collect, the only thing that we're able to speak to is what our Members are selling into the state.</v>

00:28:20.210 --> 00:28:25.800
<v Mark Hudson>So if if a producer is not a member of our program, we have no way of knowing.</v>

00:28:26.590 --> 00:28:38.630
<v Mark Hudson>So the the denominator for us is is somewhat question mark it when we calculate our recycling rate it's it's how much are we collecting and recycling of what our Members are selling.</v>

00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:43.200
<v Mark Hudson>But we recognize that there are plenty of other producers out there that are not our Members.</v>

00:28:43.210 --> 00:28:45.040
<v Mark Hudson>And so we can't really speak to that number.</v>

00:28:46.360 --> 00:28:46.630
<v Bertocci, Elena>Right.</v>

00:28:46.640 --> 00:28:50.060
<v Bertocci, Elena>Of course, we'll have that number, but yeah.</v>

00:28:46.310 --> 00:28:56.100
<v Mark Hudson>I hope that helps exactly, and that's that's one of the fundamentals that will change with EPR is is you know, everybody has gotta play by the same rules.</v>

00:29:01.530 --> 00:29:01.990
<v Bertocci, Elena>Thanks mark.</v>

00:29:02.770 --> 00:29:02.990
<v Mark Hudson>Yep.</v>

00:29:03.370 --> 00:29:03.930
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Thank you.</v>

00:29:24.220 --> 00:29:37.180
<v Nadeau, Jessica>So we could resurface some of the questions from the background document to just see if that prompts any more discussion, unless there's anybody in attendance that has comments to share.</v>

00:29:38.350 --> 00:29:41.550
<v Nadeau, Jessica>If so, put a hand up and we'll give you the floor.</v>

00:29:52.260 --> 00:29:52.550
<v Bertocci, Elena>Umm.</v>

00:29:55.050 --> 00:29:56.220
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Being done OK.</v>

00:29:56.290 --> 00:29:59.610
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Yeah, with that clock is loud, OK.</v>

00:30:02.440 --> 00:30:02.800
<v Nadeau, Jessica>OK.</v>

00:30:09.220 --> 00:30:09.810
<v Bertocci, Elena>So I think that.</v>

00:30:08.920 --> 00:30:11.090
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Wonder how many? Mm-hmm.</v>

00:30:12.470 --> 00:30:13.010
<v Bertocci, Elena>Are you gonna?</v>

00:30:13.050 --> 00:30:15.060
<v Bertocci, Elena>You gonna go through some of these?</v>

00:30:15.070 --> 00:30:16.750
<v Bertocci, Elena>I think the the.</v>

00:30:16.880 --> 00:30:26.770
<v Nadeau, Jessica>It I think some of the questions are gonna be tricky just to throw out there without the context, but the additional questions think it might start with those.</v>

00:30:29.280 --> 00:30:29.640
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Umm.</v>

00:30:31.390 --> 00:30:32.580
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Here's a question for.</v>

00:30:33.930 --> 00:30:36.440
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Everybody on the call with us, we're curious.</v>

00:30:38.060 --> 00:30:47.580
<v Nadeau, Jessica>A municipality's gonna need to provide for the collection and recycling for all the packaging materials that are on the readily recyclable list.</v>

00:30:48.830 --> 00:30:56.080
<v Nadeau, Jessica>And given that, how could an alternative collection program help a material become readily recyclable?</v>

00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:08.130
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Yep, Andy.</v>

00:31:10.350 --> 00:31:11.590
<v Bertocci, Elena>That was something's brought up.</v>

00:31:12.560 --> 00:31:13.360
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Yeah, yeah.</v>

00:31:20.940 --> 00:31:21.290
<v Andy Hackman>Yeah.</v>

00:31:21.300 --> 00:31:25.710
<v Andy Hackman>So I like I said, I I think it'll be in investment in infrastructure.</v>

00:31:25.990 --> 00:31:26.380
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Every.</v>

00:31:25.720 --> 00:31:49.790
<v Andy Hackman>So you know, I could foresee a particular unique packaging type that's innovative and new, perhaps moving down the the pathway of an alternative collection program, establishing infrastructure and a significant you know amount of transfer stations or MRFs depending upon you know where the technology is needed.</v>

00:31:49.800 --> 00:31:55.340
<v Andy Hackman>Like you know, they're gonna be different blocks to certain packaging types being readily recyclable.</v>

00:31:55.350 --> 00:32:09.040
<v Andy Hackman>Some of it might be at a transfer station level where we need to segregate that material as it comes in other you know times it could be at the MRF level where we actually need to to process it differently.</v>

00:32:09.350 --> 00:32:14.040
<v Andy Hackman>It could be mechanical, it could be cleansing the material, you know those different things.</v>

00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:24.470
<v Andy Hackman>Against, for, for for industry sectors that might realize they have a greater challenge to getting on that readily recyclables list.</v>

00:32:24.900 --> 00:32:37.460
<v Andy Hackman>Again, the importance around the really recycles pulls list is it will drive you know an indication for how much of a a challenge you might have and and and moving into that bucket.</v>

00:32:37.820 --> 00:32:50.210
<v Andy Hackman>And so I think it will be an infrastructure now like I said, I think there could be a scenario where a a subset of industries operates an alternative collection program.</v>

00:32:50.520 --> 00:33:10.780
<v Andy Hackman>It achieves, you know, the infrastructure investment that's needed to to move it to the readily recyclables list or approach that threshold and consultation with the department and in essence kind of turns that over to the stewardship organization as they move into readily recyclable and it it becomes part of the existing system.</v>

00:33:12.380 --> 00:33:12.650
<v Andy Hackman>Yeah.</v>

00:33:12.660 --> 00:33:41.570
<v Andy Hackman>And I I think that and and and new newer technologies in recycling, whether that be mechanical and and hauling or like I said cleansing separation, processing technologies, that's probably gonna take more specialized investment than than than funding and reimbursing and also bluntly control too, right?</v>

00:33:41.580 --> 00:33:52.520
<v Andy Hackman>Like you know, the the stewardship organization under our law doesn't have a whole lot of control over that.</v>

00:33:52.530 --> 00:34:15.010
<v Andy Hackman>How reimbursements you know that funding is used after the cost has been accounted for, so you know if an industry says look, we really wanna be considered rather recyclable and Maine though potentially have that plan to invest quickly in a focused manner to move towards recyclability or reusability and could achieve great.</v>

00:34:15.020 --> 00:34:28.710
<v Andy Hackman>You know that again, just reading how the law is structured, you might be able to achieve greater advances in a quicker fashion to an advance a alternative collection program.</v>

00:34:28.920 --> 00:34:32.830
<v Andy Hackman>Then sort of might be not the right terminology.</v>

00:34:32.840 --> 00:34:55.420
<v Andy Hackman>Waiting for the system to and then hoping that the stewardship organization which you may not be again because our stewardship organization is a contractor to the state and isn't a necessarily a a contractor or it may not be the again depends on what who who's the winning bid.</v>

00:34:55.930 --> 00:35:08.000
<v Andy Hackman>It may not be an organization that is connected, and the only requirement in the statute is that the stewardship organization allow opportunities for producers to comment or to have input.</v>

00:35:08.490 --> 00:35:26.030
<v Andy Hackman>I don't even think inputs that might be strong, too strong of a word, but and again alternative collection programs allow that pathway where a set of producers or set of industry play in history sector could achieve it.</v>

00:35:26.080 --> 00:35:36.460
<v Andy Hackman>It controlled, focused quick, not quick in a in a in a negative sense, but a as quick and investment in infrastructure as possible to move to rather recyclable.</v>

00:35:36.470 --> 00:35:45.430
<v Andy Hackman>And then it becomes something that municipalities and the system could be reimbursed through the standard approach at a future point in time.</v>

00:35:45.440 --> 00:35:49.430
<v Andy Hackman>So that's again just how how the law reads.</v>

00:35:50.540 --> 00:35:53.630
<v Andy Hackman>It feels like that could happen, whether or not it does.</v>

00:35:53.640 --> 00:35:56.450
<v Andy Hackman>I can't promise you, you know, certainly aware.</v>

00:35:56.460 --> 00:36:01.870
<v Andy Hackman>I mean Mark's program is an an outstanding exception of the of an stewardship program that's existed for years.</v>

00:36:02.380 --> 00:36:13.930
<v Andy Hackman>But I also think that there's, you know, potential for this in areas where certain packaging types are particularly challenged or the products that they hold are particularly challenged.</v>

00:36:14.080 --> 00:36:21.940
<v Andy Hackman>So I guess that's kind of a reiteration of the point that I made earlier, but yeah, that's that's how I see that quest.</v>

00:36:24.950 --> 00:36:27.060
<v Nadeau, Jessica>And Mark, we've made you a presenter too.</v>

00:36:33.070 --> 00:36:34.300
<v Mark Hudson>Yes, thank you.</v>

00:36:34.350 --> 00:37:03.840
<v Mark Hudson>I guess a couple of comments and one of them is is arguably really a maybe a more of a question and I'll, I'll start with that, which is when you think about a material becoming readily recyclable, one of the things that comes to our mind is so products like ours, uh, most of what or virtually all of what we collect is rigid HDPE containers and by every standard those would be considered readily recyclable, right?</v>

00:37:04.840 --> 00:37:06.770
<v Mark Hudson>I guess the question that I would have is.</v>

00:37:08.430 --> 00:37:09.920
<v Mark Hudson>Is there an?</v>

00:37:10.330 --> 00:37:29.060
<v Mark Hudson>My apologies if I should know this already from reading the statute, but you know whether the product that's contained in the type of packaging in any way influences it's the definition as as being readily recyclable or not.</v>

00:37:29.560 --> 00:38:32.930
<v Mark Hudson>And so in if if it if that is the case, and so if if chemicals being the product that's stored in packaging influences whether it's readily recyclable or not, then that leads me to my second point is you know how can an alternative collection program help something like that become more readily recyclable and and I think certainly in our case us partnering with both with the state and also with the stewardship organization with murphs all all of those entities being aware of a program like ours and collaborating together with respect to education and community outreach I think is definitely a way that we can help drive some of that packaging that might otherwise be either landfilled or umm yeah, landfilled or maybe even citrated where whatever is being done with it to to drive it to our program, to help educate the end users to know about for example triple rinsing.</v>

00:38:33.120 --> 00:38:39.530
<v Mark Hudson>And that by doing these steps, you know we'll be able to properly recycle that packaging.</v>

00:38:39.540 --> 00:38:49.840
<v Mark Hudson>So, umm, you know, I don't know if you guys can comment on my first point or first question, but at least that would be sort of my approach from a solution perspective.</v>

00:38:53.420 --> 00:39:08.180
<v Bertocci, Elena>So packaging material is defined in statute is, umm, a type of material or category of material that includes multiple types of material with similar management requirements and similar commodity values.</v>

00:39:08.350 --> 00:39:15.290
<v Bertocci, Elena>So like I think triple rinse would would pretty clearly be a different management requirement.</v>

00:39:16.300 --> 00:39:41.040
<v Bertocci, Elena>Umm, in which case that would be a different packaging material type, but the extent to which right toxicity, whether intentionally added to the package or potentially and staying with the package due to what was filled is is is I guess a a question and and and probably a very right because if that becomes a second a separate material type.</v>

00:39:43.650 --> 00:39:44.050
<v Bertocci, Elena>Umm.</v>

00:39:47.570 --> 00:39:47.970
<v Bertocci, Elena>There is.</v>

00:39:51.050 --> 00:39:53.360
<v Bertocci, Elena>Reasoned for an alternative collection program.</v>

00:39:53.370 --> 00:40:15.290
<v Bertocci, Elena>If it's not a separate material type, umm, it's a little hard for me to imagine producers who could be paying in at the cost of managing #2 bottles into a system paying for a system that's designed to properly handle those materials.</v>

00:40:15.790 --> 00:40:16.320
<v Bertocci, Elena>Right.</v>

00:40:16.370 --> 00:40:18.130
<v Bertocci, Elena>Like, they're not gonna move to that price point.</v>

00:40:18.140 --> 00:40:30.580
<v Bertocci, Elena>I mean, your people are obviously doing it voluntarily, but generally speaking, you're not gonna have producers move to that higher price point to to properly manage the material.</v>

00:40:30.590 --> 00:40:33.840
<v Bertocci, Elena>If they could be paying in at a per tonne rate for HDPE.</v>

00:40:36.040 --> 00:40:37.170
<v Mark Hudson>Alright, I would agree with that.</v>

00:40:37.540 --> 00:40:37.780
<v Mark Hudson>Yeah.</v>

00:40:39.620 --> 00:40:39.880
<v Mark Hudson>Yeah.</v>

00:40:39.890 --> 00:40:52.070
<v Mark Hudson>And there's there's obviously a reason why our program exists and has existed for all these years, and it's to make sure that the packaging is being properly handled.</v>

00:40:52.180 --> 00:40:53.890
<v Mark Hudson>And you know, that's that.</v>

00:40:54.400 --> 00:41:04.830
<v Mark Hudson>I'd like to think that's a big part of the value that we bring and and can continue to bring under this new mode of operation.</v>

00:41:05.240 --> 00:41:51.380
<v Mark Hudson>And I I think working with uh, you know, state and and local infrastructure, municipalities to help you know if if they are receiving packaging that sort of falls under our umbrella from an alternative collection program standpoint to direct end users to us or to you know somehow collaborate to make sure that we're educating those end users and connecting the dots if you will matching up our program with end users that we might otherwise be be missing or those in years users for whatever reason aren't aware of us or aren't taking advantage of the fact that we exist.</v>

00:41:55.700 --> 00:42:07.850
<v Mark Hudson>Certainly the goal of our Members would be for our program to simply be an available resource to state and local governments to.</v>

00:42:09.550 --> 00:42:30.100
<v Mark Hudson>Even, you know, private enterprise across the state of Maine to to always be there and available, not just from an education and and training perspective, but certainly the to provide the the collection service our our goal would be to to partner with any of those stakeholders to make that happen.</v>

00:42:36.170 --> 00:42:36.670
<v Bertocci, Elena>Thanks mark.</v>

00:42:36.540 --> 00:42:37.270
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Thank you, mark.</v>

00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:37.750
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Thanks.</v>

00:42:37.980 --> 00:42:49.210
<v Nadeau, Jessica>I've got Susan Bush was first and then Chris second, so I'm gonna make Susan a presenter and then afterwards make Chris OK.</v>

00:42:57.200 --> 00:42:57.780
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Hi, Susan.</v>

00:43:00.410 --> 00:43:00.700
<v Susan Bush>OK.</v>

00:43:00.710 --> 00:43:01.240
<v Susan Bush>Can you hear me now?</v>

00:43:01.710 --> 00:43:01.850
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Yes.</v>

00:43:02.860 --> 00:43:03.590
<v Susan Bush>OK, great.</v>

00:43:04.180 --> 00:43:08.810
<v Susan Bush>Yeah, I was just noticing in your law it's very different than some of the other state laws.</v>

00:43:08.820 --> 00:43:39.750
<v Susan Bush>Of course, as it happens in that you do specifically exempt the beverages that are in the beverage container redemption program just through the definition of packaging material and as well as the architectural paint cans that are in the paint can return program, but the agricultural products are not and in some other states they are specifically exempted because they're already in that program.</v>

00:43:40.110 --> 00:43:54.820
<v Susan Bush>So I'm just sort of pointing that out as an interesting difference and I'm kind of curious from Mark and if any of the containers included in his program would tend to be included in curbside.</v>

00:43:54.830 --> 00:44:00.420
<v Susan Bush>The only one that he mentioned I could possibly see putting in curbside might be up uh.</v>

00:44:00.900 --> 00:44:19.540
<v Susan Bush>Sounded like vet vet medicine container, but I you know I don't know how the spectrum of that medicine container is included in his program, but at any rate, I guess my point is that it's not uncommon for those to be exempt from the EPR bill because already covered under another program.</v>

00:44:19.850 --> 00:44:24.380
<v Susan Bush>However, I do like the idea like he was saying like Mark was mentioning of coordination.</v>

00:44:24.670 --> 00:44:44.080
<v Susan Bush>There might be some some ways to enhance education and outreach with the existing SO or municipalities and and I'm curious to mark if you know the portion of either manufacturers or products that are included in your organization, if you have an idea of that.</v>

00:44:44.090 --> 00:44:46.210
<v Susan Bush>Just just curious if you if you're able to say that.</v>

00:44:47.370 --> 00:44:47.710
<v Susan Bush>Thank you.</v>

00:44:50.800 --> 00:44:51.260
<v Bertocci, Elena>Thanks Susan.</v>

00:44:54.790 --> 00:44:55.050
<v Mark Hudson>Yeah.</v>

00:44:55.060 --> 00:44:56.290
<v Mark Hudson>My my unmuted.</v>

00:44:57.200 --> 00:44:57.320
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Yes.</v>

00:44:59.350 --> 00:45:09.680
<v Mark Hudson>Yeah, I you know we we estimate that that's somewhere probably in the 75 to 80% range of the industry that's represented at our table.</v>

00:45:10.430 --> 00:45:12.880
<v Mark Hudson>The challenge, you know, we can look at numbers of companies.</v>

00:45:13.750 --> 00:45:17.490
<v Mark Hudson>Umm as one barometer for that.</v>

00:45:17.500 --> 00:45:24.040
<v Mark Hudson>But the challenge is knowing exactly how much packaging each one of those companies is selling into the marketplace.</v>

00:45:24.050 --> 00:45:42.320
<v Mark Hudson>And the only way that we are able to discern that is by the confidential survey that we do with our Members every year, but all the people that are not our Members, we have no way of telling that, you know, certainly our Members have anecdotal estimates of what their competition is doing, but we don't really have that Intel.</v>

00:45:42.470 --> 00:45:53.550
<v Mark Hudson>And so our our best guesstimate would be somewhere in the neighborhood of probably 75 to 85% of the Ag chem marketplaces represented at our at our table.</v>

00:45:58.310 --> 00:46:00.130
<v Bertocci, Elena>That's by market share or company number?</v>

00:45:59.120 --> 00:46:07.760
<v Mark Hudson>And and and I would say that's really a probably a combination of market share and numbers of companies.</v>

00:46:07.930 --> 00:46:14.540
<v Mark Hudson>It's probably more market share than than numbers of companies because if you look at the number of companies, we have 56 members.</v>

00:46:16.120 --> 00:46:16.580
<v Bertocci, Elena>A million.</v>

00:46:14.990 --> 00:46:20.720
<v Mark Hudson>There's if you look at all the all the folks that are not our Members, there's a lot more than that.</v>

00:46:20.730 --> 00:46:32.210
<v Mark Hudson>You know more than double that, but many of those are much smaller companies that you know from a market share perspective wouldn't represent nearly what most of our Members represent.</v>

00:46:33.590 --> 00:47:10.720
<v Mark Hudson>I'll just echo the comment that I think it was Susan that just made and I appreciate that comment and it would certainly say that I think, Elena, we may have or we did make this comment in one of the early stakeholder calls, which is just recognizing that there are you know there's precedent and other states that have enacted EPR laws to include exemption clauses such as FIFRA, which is the EPA regulations that govern pesticides, the federal insecticide, fungicide and Rodenticide Act.</v>

00:47:11.550 --> 00:47:33.420
<v Mark Hudson>You know, certainly we would love to see that as an exemption clause in the Maine statute, and likewise similar exemptions for animal health products and some of the other regulated examples that that you would find, for example, in California's law or in Oregon's law.</v>

00:47:38.390 --> 00:47:38.800
<v Mark Hudson>Curbside.</v>

00:47:40.020 --> 00:47:40.270
<v Nadeau, Jessica>OK.</v>

00:47:40.440 --> 00:47:40.890
<v Bertocci, Elena>Thanks Mark.</v>

00:47:41.570 --> 00:47:42.120
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Thank you.</v>

00:47:42.730 --> 00:47:43.660
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Ohh Chris.</v>

00:47:43.670 --> 00:47:45.190
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Yes, you are on.</v>

00:47:46.490 --> 00:47:47.200
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>Alright.</v>

00:47:47.500 --> 00:47:48.150
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>Can you hear me good?</v>

00:47:49.020 --> 00:47:49.420
<v Nadeau, Jessica>We can.</v>

00:47:49.470 --> 00:47:51.040
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>Hi, thank you.</v>

00:47:51.270 --> 00:47:52.800
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>Nice to see you all in, Chris.</v>

00:47:52.810 --> 00:47:55.860
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>Appreciate from RPM Nicole, we are a Canadian company.</v>

00:47:55.870 --> 00:48:05.200
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>We recycle chemical containers, mainly motor, all containers and antifreeze, glycol across Canada and we do it mechanically.</v>

00:48:05.530 --> 00:48:47.810
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>And regarding the question that we have, which I find it very interesting and it's always a nice to hear Mark, which who's got such experience and doing so and same as Andy which is a great contributor and umm a source of information for myself, I would say so and but in Canada we have a lot of proven model and we find that all the question most of the question will have like could find the right answer by looking at those models that we have like in Quebec, if we're talking about the program for the chemical containers where we were all rates are now more than close to 80% of those kind of containers.</v>

00:48:48.260 --> 00:48:49.530
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>I'm gonna talk.</v>

00:48:49.580 --> 00:48:50.010
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>Just.</v>

00:48:50.020 --> 00:48:54.840
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>I'm just gonna concentrate myself on the motor containers in antifreeze containers.</v>

00:48:54.930 --> 00:49:18.570
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>And regarding the question with the cities and the MRF and the municipalities, ohm, I don't see too much of a kind of a collaboration to having those product in those station because it it is very hard to to work with and that the risk of contamination is very high in those where we could see a kind of collaboration.</v>

00:49:18.580 --> 00:49:24.250
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>And I think some of you guys have brought it up at some point and some other states also have kind of a similar model.</v>

00:49:24.260 --> 00:49:26.790
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>It's to other infrastructure.</v>

00:49:27.300 --> 00:49:37.510
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>Some of you guys have recycling infrastructure, a building that not been quite used or moved could be available or fields available.</v>

00:49:37.670 --> 00:49:43.600
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>We have a that those kind of opportunities will be interesting for us to to look at.</v>

00:49:43.910 --> 00:49:49.120
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>So if I could encourage you to kind of collaboration, that could be one of them.</v>

00:49:49.460 --> 00:50:06.030
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>And also like Andy mention, it is a type business and we want on a very tight margin and referring to also what Elena mention, the PRO will be looking at the most efficient way to to to work it out right.</v>

00:50:06.360 --> 00:50:19.250
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>So and again, also last word would be we open for collaboration with any of the people that would like to work the chemical containers and and in the other way in.</v>

00:50:19.310 --> 00:50:21.950
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>In many ways, I should say thank you.</v>

00:50:23.150 --> 00:50:23.560
<v Bertocci, Elena>Thanks Chris.</v>

00:50:23.380 --> 00:50:23.940
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Thank you.</v>

00:50:27.320 --> 00:50:34.040
<v Nadeau, Jessica>And you want to share that I make the attendance lists available with each of the stakeholder meetings.</v>

00:50:34.050 --> 00:50:48.450
<v Nadeau, Jessica>In the case that you wanted to find the contact to anybody who uh attended any of the meetings, you can find that where you would find all the comments that have been submitted to date on the programs website.</v>

00:50:51.990 --> 00:50:56.190
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Help and Gary Panknin has his head up, so I'm gonna make him a presenter.</v>

00:51:06.150 --> 00:51:07.100
<v Nadeau, Jessica>I the area you're on.</v>

00:51:07.850 --> 00:51:09.200
<v Gary Panknin>Alright, yes.</v>

00:51:09.290 --> 00:51:10.210
<v Gary Panknin>Can you all hear me OK?</v>

00:51:10.910 --> 00:51:11.070
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Yes.</v>

00:51:12.020 --> 00:51:12.860
<v Gary Panknin>OK, perfect.</v>

00:51:13.120 --> 00:51:13.630
<v Gary Panknin>Ohm.</v>

00:51:15.010 --> 00:51:17.040
<v Gary Panknin>A couple questions I have, I guess.</v>

00:51:19.880 --> 00:51:29.740
<v Gary Panknin>One of the things is that talks about the producer of product being the brand owner of the product packaged product.</v>

00:51:29.970 --> 00:51:40.590
<v Gary Panknin>So a lot of times I have difficulty getting distinguished distinguishing information between who the producer is and who's going to be responsible.</v>

00:51:41.410 --> 00:51:41.980
<v Gary Panknin>Umm.</v>

00:51:42.470 --> 00:51:45.040
<v Gary Panknin>Primarily for like secondary packaging.</v>

00:51:45.650 --> 00:51:50.520
<v Gary Panknin>And Andy, I'm gonna throw you under the bus here when you talk about 6 pack rings.</v>

00:51:51.490 --> 00:52:07.530
<v Gary Panknin>Because that is a secondary packaging format and so in my mind the producer is the beverage owners that are using that secondary packaging to present their product out to the consumer.</v>

00:52:07.780 --> 00:52:12.730
<v Gary Panknin>However, the consumer is responsible for recycling that secondary packaging.</v>

00:52:13.740 --> 00:52:21.090
<v Gary Panknin>So the question I have is how are you distinguishing between something like that between your primary packaging being containers?</v>

00:52:21.100 --> 00:52:28.790
<v Gary Panknin>I hear a lot of talk about the plastic containers and how they're going to be recycled and collected through these alternative collection programs.</v>

00:52:31.310 --> 00:52:36.380
<v Gary Panknin>But how does that distinction come in when you have a secondary packaging product like that?</v>

00:52:36.450 --> 00:52:38.650
<v Gary Panknin>And I hate to say rings because.</v>

00:52:40.390 --> 00:52:52.220
<v Gary Panknin>Our product, which is packed deck is actually 6 pack carriers, not rings and so I know the rings are flexible where the carriers are rigid plastics and so.</v>

00:52:52.590 --> 00:53:03.040
<v Gary Panknin>How how's that distinct distinction going to be made, especially if it's going to require an alternative collection program versus a curbside recycling?</v>

00:53:04.080 --> 00:53:07.150
<v Gary Panknin>Ohh, because it seems to be a lot of confusion.</v>

00:53:07.160 --> 00:53:09.060
<v Gary Panknin>Even I'm part of the Oregon.</v>

00:53:09.740 --> 00:53:27.560
<v Gary Panknin>Uh Recycling modernization act and what they're trying to do there and they're in EPRI laws and there's already a big conflict in that discussion as to to what gets curbside recycled versus an alternative collection program through the PRO.</v>

00:53:29.200 --> 00:53:47.280
<v Gary Panknin>And some kind of curious how Maine's going to kind of work that through their scenario and I'll use an example as the pack tech carriers is they have probably 30 locations within Maine that are collecting these at at breweries and that type of things for consumers to drop off.</v>

00:53:47.290 --> 00:53:52.100
<v Gary Panknin>And so there is an alternative program in the works that's paid for by the company.</v>

00:53:52.390 --> 00:54:02.430
<v Gary Panknin>And how does it get all cycled through in with this on a collection program that would actually be steered by the PRO.</v>

00:54:04.560 --> 00:54:07.270
<v Gary Panknin>Is that a fair enough question to ask somebody in there?</v>

00:54:11.260 --> 00:54:12.080
<v Bertocci, Elena>Gonna go forward, Jessica.</v>

00:54:13.270 --> 00:54:13.680
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Yeah.</v>

00:54:13.690 --> 00:54:20.830
<v Nadeau, Jessica>So I was going to address the second question, which is how how does it circle back?</v>

00:54:21.280 --> 00:54:40.830
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Yeah, all the costs are realized by producers when it comes to establishing an alternative collection program and the producers would keep track of all of the amounts, whether by weight or volume of each packaging material type that's collected in the program.</v>

00:54:41.140 --> 00:54:46.540
<v Nadeau, Jessica>And then they would report that back to the SO and the.</v>

00:54:47.410 --> 00:54:54.920
<v Nadeau, Jessica>SO would offset the payment obligation of that producer or a group of producers.</v>

00:54:55.210 --> 00:55:23.720
<v Nadeau, Jessica>However, it's arranged from their payment obligation so the So only involved really with just kind of transferring the information that's provided by the producer group of producers managing the alternative collection program and offsetting the payment obligation for that producer or group of producers.</v>

00:55:26.730 --> 00:55:27.100
<v Bertocci, Elena>Yeah.</v>

00:55:26.600 --> 00:55:27.490
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Now the fear.</v>

00:55:27.110 --> 00:55:28.100
<v Bertocci, Elena>So go ahead.</v>

00:55:28.110 --> 00:55:28.770
<v Bertocci, Elena>Sorry, continue.</v>

00:55:27.860 --> 00:55:30.430
<v Nadeau, Jessica>OK, now if you had any follow up that's good.</v>

00:55:30.440 --> 00:55:32.810
<v Nadeau, Jessica>I was actually gonna go to the first question.</v>

00:55:32.820 --> 00:55:36.380
<v Nadeau, Jessica>So if you have any follow up to that Elena, share it now.</v>

00:55:36.390 --> 00:55:47.210
<v Bertocci, Elena>Well, I guess the the SO and Maine is is a little bit different than the traditional PR O in that it's more of an administrative body and and a PRO what would you would think of as a traditional PRO O.</v>

00:55:48.840 --> 00:55:50.630
<v Bertocci, Elena>It's sort of like Mark's organization.</v>

00:55:51.040 --> 00:55:55.010
<v Bertocci, Elena>It's a group of producers and they would be running an alternative collection program.</v>

00:55:55.020 --> 00:56:00.540
<v Bertocci, Elena>So if you have all these locations in the state that are collecting these, what you would do is that group of.</v>

00:56:02.100 --> 00:56:07.450
<v Bertocci, Elena>Producers would come together and would say we wanna have an alternative collection program.</v>

00:56:07.460 --> 00:56:16.510
<v Bertocci, Elena>They apply to the department, they get approval for the collection program and then that's how those materials collected can be used to offset obligation to the SO.</v>

00:56:19.670 --> 00:56:21.710
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Gary, was that helpful?</v>

00:56:23.580 --> 00:56:24.900
<v Gary Panknin>Yeah, I think so.</v>

00:56:24.950 --> 00:56:27.570
<v Gary Panknin>It's a it's a complex scenario.</v>

00:56:27.580 --> 00:56:32.570
<v Gary Panknin>The whole thing around this, but yes, that was helpful.</v>

00:56:33.000 --> 00:56:41.130
<v Gary Panknin>Sounds like what you're saying is if there's an existing program already taking place, then it would be good for the producers as a group.</v>

00:56:41.240 --> 00:56:52.430
<v Gary Panknin>As you said, Elena, to get together and say, OK, we're going to approach the pro and say, OK, this is going to be an alternate collection program that they would manage in essence.</v>

00:56:52.930 --> 00:56:53.820
<v Bertocci, Elena>Not quite.</v>

00:56:54.240 --> 00:56:54.420
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Yeah.</v>

00:56:53.890 --> 00:56:56.080
<v Bertocci, Elena>Not quite, because they're not gonna need to.</v>

00:56:56.690 --> 00:56:58.230
<v Bertocci, Elena>They're not gonna need to approach the.</v>

00:56:59.930 --> 00:57:09.110
<v Bertocci, Elena>The SO we have an SO stewardship organization which is a little bit different than a PRO producer responsibility organization so more.</v>

00:57:10.110 --> 00:57:18.510
<v Bertocci, Elena>More likely than not, those producers would sort of create a PRO, umm.</v>

00:57:19.070 --> 00:57:24.000
<v Bertocci, Elena>Organize amongst among themselves to set up this program.</v>

00:57:24.790 --> 00:57:25.720
<v Bertocci, Elena>They wouldn't have to.</v>

00:57:25.730 --> 00:57:34.830
<v Bertocci, Elena>One brewery that's collecting could apply to be an alternative collection program, but they're not gonna be able to get their statewide coverage and all of that there.</v>

00:57:34.970 --> 00:57:35.440
<v Gary Panknin>So sick.</v>

00:57:34.840 --> 00:57:36.330
<v Bertocci, Elena>I mean, I don't see that would be hard.</v>

00:57:36.340 --> 00:57:48.530
<v Bertocci, Elena>It would be hard for them to get their statewide coverage so, so, so probably what happens is they organize among themselves or somebody like PakTechs that makes that product and wants people to use that product.</v>

00:57:53.730 --> 00:57:54.610
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Good too.</v>

00:57:49.200 --> 00:57:57.650
<v Bertocci, Elena>I'm help them organize perhaps, and then in terms of the the second question Jessica was gonna.</v>

00:57:59.440 --> 00:58:06.390
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Yeah, the definition for producer I was just gonna before I jump into what we're gonna offer.</v>

00:58:06.400 --> 00:58:20.630
<v Nadeau, Jessica>I just wanted to share that in the month of August, I mean it is official that we will begin to share some rule concepts is how they're gonna be titled, conceptual rules, conceptual rules.</v>

00:58:21.280 --> 00:58:36.630
<v Nadeau, Jessica>So I just asked that you keep a lookout for those as they are shortly coming out and in those conceptualized rules will will have a clarification on the producer definition.</v>

00:58:37.910 --> 00:58:41.520
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Elena, if you want to add any more to that also Andy is.</v>

00:58:41.850 --> 00:58:42.820
<v Nadeau, Jessica>I'll let you make that call.</v>

00:58:42.830 --> 00:58:44.420
<v Nadeau, Jessica>And he's got his hand up too, so.</v>

00:58:45.800 --> 00:58:46.360
<v Gary Panknin>Just just.</v>

00:58:48.070 --> 00:58:48.190
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Yes.</v>

00:58:45.430 --> 00:58:50.360
<v Bertocci, Elena>Yeah, just one final thought on Garry's other question about there was a number of questions in there.</v>

00:58:50.430 --> 00:58:52.320
<v Bertocci, Elena>So the other thing is different from Oregon.</v>

00:58:52.330 --> 00:58:55.560
<v Bertocci, Elena>Oregon has a required curbside list.</v>

00:58:55.570 --> 00:58:57.160
<v Bertocci, Elena>It's an exclusive curbside list only.</v>

00:58:57.170 --> 00:58:59.570
<v Bertocci, Elena>This goes in the curbside and they have a drop off list.</v>

00:58:59.690 --> 00:59:06.610
<v Bertocci, Elena>Maine has a readily recyclable list and so all municipalities must provide for the collection and recycling of everything on that list.</v>

00:59:07.640 --> 00:59:10.780
<v Bertocci, Elena>Umm, they do that in different ways, so it's not necessarily curbside.</v>

00:59:10.790 --> 00:59:11.130
<v Bertocci, Elena>It's not.</v>

00:59:11.140 --> 00:59:15.230
<v Bertocci, Elena>The state is not making that curbside drop off distinction.</v>

00:59:15.500 --> 00:59:17.100
<v Bertocci, Elena>Municipalities are making those choices.</v>

00:59:18.490 --> 00:59:23.590
<v Bertocci, Elena>Umm, the state is just telling municipalities what they have to collect and what they don't.</v>

00:59:24.950 --> 00:59:26.550
<v Bertocci, Elena>But they could just choose cook.</v>

00:59:24.630 --> 00:59:33.610
<v Gary Panknin>OK, so each no thank you for that, Elena, because that was going to be one of the things I wanted to dive into is about that readily recycling list.</v>

00:59:33.620 --> 00:59:39.440
<v Gary Panknin>So that's per municipality or is that per the state of Maine, the readily recycle?</v>

00:59:40.590 --> 00:59:41.230
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Maine.</v>

00:59:40.370 --> 00:59:42.420
<v Bertocci, Elena>The state will have a readily recyclable lesson.</v>

00:59:42.800 --> 00:59:43.100
<v Gary Panknin>OK.</v>

00:59:42.430 --> 00:59:43.390
<v Bertocci, Elena>It will be updated.</v>

00:59:45.220 --> 00:59:45.710
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Annually.</v>

00:59:49.540 --> 00:59:51.150
<v Nadeau, Jessica>In yes.</v>

00:59:51.030 --> 00:59:51.320
<v Gary Panknin>OK.</v>

00:59:44.360 --> 00:59:52.220
<v Bertocci, Elena>Umm, you know, we're hoping it's not changing annually, but it will be looked at on an annual basis and updated as needed.</v>

00:59:51.330 --> 01:00:19.100
<v Gary Panknin>So I guess my so I guess my next just real quick question, I don't want to take up too much time on this, but is is how do what would be the best Ave for us to be engaged in become getting on to that resource readily recycling list as being a mono material that's a secondary packaging that is ohh, completely recyclable and how did how does that get?</v>

01:00:19.190 --> 01:00:19.320
<v Gary Panknin>Yep.</v>

01:00:21.040 --> 01:00:27.800
<v Gary Panknin>Yeah, get seen as a potential for being on that readily recyclable list.</v>

01:00:29.260 --> 01:00:41.730
<v Bertocci, Elena>That we're going to make rules around that's gonna like further define readily recyclable and provide a process for that decision making to to happen on an annual basis.</v>

01:00:42.610 --> 01:00:45.200
<v Gary Panknin>OK, perfect.</v>

01:00:41.920 --> 01:00:47.890
<v Bertocci, Elena>And so you'd wanna comment on those, but those are probably those are not gonna be ready in August.</v>

01:00:49.630 --> 01:00:50.050
<v Gary Panknin>OK.</v>

01:00:50.100 --> 01:00:51.380
<v Gary Panknin>Well, thank you very much.</v>

01:00:51.390 --> 01:00:52.070
<v Gary Panknin>I appreciate that.</v>

01:00:54.180 --> 01:00:55.380
<v Bertocci, Elena>From thanks for the questions.</v>

01:00:58.880 --> 01:00:59.840
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Thank you, Gary.</v>

01:00:59.950 --> 01:01:02.610
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Andy, you can go ahead and chime in.</v>

01:01:03.260 --> 01:01:03.630
<v Andy Hackman>Yeah.</v>

01:01:03.640 --> 01:01:05.980
<v Andy Hackman>So it's maybe first just is a logistical question.</v>

01:01:05.990 --> 01:01:11.740
<v Andy Hackman>You said draft concepts are gonna start coming out in August, so it won't be the entire slate of rules.</v>

01:01:15.570 --> 01:01:16.270
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Piece by piece.</v>

01:01:11.750 --> 01:01:19.180
<v Andy Hackman>That sounds like given Elena's last comment, it will be nuggets, but OK, so we'll have homework before Labor Day.</v>

01:01:19.190 --> 01:01:19.360
<v Andy Hackman>Day.</v>

01:01:19.910 --> 01:01:20.150
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Right.</v>

01:01:19.370 --> 01:01:20.440
<v Andy Hackman>Thanks guys.</v>

01:01:20.830 --> 01:01:22.190
<v Andy Hackman>That's great. Appreciate.</v>

01:01:21.790 --> 01:01:24.460
<v Nadeau, Jessica>And and and and I'm gonna stress the idea there.</v>

01:01:25.000 --> 01:01:27.270
<v Nadeau, Jessica>This comes concepts.</v>

01:01:27.920 --> 01:01:28.340
<v Andy Hackman>Gotcha.</v>

01:01:28.040 --> 01:01:35.380
<v Nadeau, Jessica>They're they're not gonna have spiffy formatting and anything like that, they're gonna be concept ideas for input.</v>

01:01:36.540 --> 01:01:43.200
<v Andy Hackman>It would encourage the department to maybe allow us till after Labor Day to consume those, so we might enjoy what few days of the Nice summer.</v>

01:01:43.200 --> 01:01:47.550
<v Andy Hackman>The weather that we might get yet in August so.</v>

01:01:46.680 --> 01:01:49.470
<v Bertocci, Elena>But you think you're gonna get sun Andy?</v>

01:01:47.050 --> 01:01:50.120
<v Nadeau, Jessica>I understand because the first one coming out, yeah.</v>

01:01:51.750 --> 01:01:53.940
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Is not your favorite, yes.</v>

01:01:56.040 --> 01:02:19.020
<v Andy Hackman>So that was saying I did have sort of something that came up within the context of that discussion as I thought about things with regard to statewide collection and the metric there, if there was was a scenario in which a producer group of producers had a mail in collection program.</v>

01:02:19.090 --> 01:02:21.330
<v Andy Hackman>And I think some of us are familiar, there are some some.</v>

01:02:22.530 --> 01:02:37.910
<v Andy Hackman>Coffee pod companies that have that type of functionality, you know, there might be some innovation in that space as well and technically right, like in any consumer that has access to a post office box would have access there.</v>

01:02:38.140 --> 01:02:42.610
<v Andy Hackman>I'm not suggesting that again, you know, Hackman's crazy wild idea.</v>

01:02:42.620 --> 01:03:02.520
<v Andy Hackman>Just mail your stuff back to me in the shed is should qualify as as statewide collection, but there are, you know, at least some producers that I think we're all aware of that might have, you know, mail back options and for that brewery like if it's just, you know, Hackman spirits makes that wouldn't qualify and neither would beer.</v>

01:03:02.530 --> 01:03:04.490
<v Andy Hackman>But you know that's cause we bottle Bill.</v>

01:03:04.500 --> 01:03:23.970
<v Andy Hackman>But you know Hackman potions like, if I if I gave everyone my consumers a return label and included that when they went out the door, you know, from from my shack in union to to mail that back to me, and I had, you know, provisioned with my transfer station, that they were gonna recycle that, you know, could that qualify or not?</v>

01:03:23.980 --> 01:03:24.810
<v Andy Hackman>Probably not.</v>

01:03:24.850 --> 01:03:28.230
<v Andy Hackman>You know, just like I think it does need to be a well thought out.</v>

01:03:28.330 --> 01:03:28.440
<v Andy Hackman>Yeah.</v>

01:03:28.450 --> 01:03:32.960
<v Andy Hackman>And I'm not suggesting that any crazy wild idea like mail your crap back to me would work.</v>

01:03:33.760 --> 01:03:41.660
<v Andy Hackman>But you know, there are some significant market presence folks that are using, you know mail back options.</v>

01:03:41.670 --> 01:04:01.700
<v Andy Hackman>There are obviously higher price point items because they can afford to do that within the price point at the product and but you know there may need to be some allowance in this, this programmatic area for things like that to to to meet the threshold of statewide collection, even though they they they may have.</v>

01:04:01.710 --> 01:04:09.460
<v Andy Hackman>No infrastructure in Maine technically, right like that may be mailed back to New Hampshire or Ohio or South Carolina.</v>

01:04:09.470 --> 01:04:10.120
<v Andy Hackman>Who knows?</v>

01:04:10.130 --> 01:04:13.010
<v Andy Hackman>But uh, you know, I think we would.</v>

01:04:14.910 --> 01:04:17.010
<v Andy Hackman>And it's ultimate nature of circularity.</v>

01:04:17.020 --> 01:04:37.260
<v Andy Hackman>You know, if those if those those packaging types were reused by that producer washed and then put back out in the marketplace, that's a a potentially an ultimate net positive and it's it's fully subtracting that material from from landfill or you know requiring cost and the Maine recycling system.</v>

01:04:37.270 --> 01:04:45.730
<v Andy Hackman>So again, something to consider and potentially allow pathway for if producers are able to go down that that route.</v>

01:04:48.470 --> 01:04:54.190
<v Nadeau, Jessica>That actually is, so I've actually that kind of leads me to a question I've got for Gary regarding the PakTechs.</v>

01:04:54.730 --> 01:04:57.260
<v Nadeau, Jessica>I I'm slightly familiar with them.</v>

01:04:57.790 --> 01:04:58.750
<v Nadeau, Jessica>They actually are.</v>

01:04:58.760 --> 01:05:04.480
<v Nadeau, Jessica>They would you consider those reusable or just recyclable?</v>

01:05:04.490 --> 01:05:05.870
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Can can can can fight?</v>

01:05:11.680 --> 01:05:11.890
<v Gary Panknin>Yeah.</v>

01:05:05.880 --> 01:05:12.380
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Take because I have been able to snap cans back into them if you collect them.</v>

01:05:12.830 --> 01:05:16.320
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Are they reusable or do you just recycle?</v>

01:05:16.330 --> 01:05:17.950
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Lamented another plastic.</v>

01:05:16.490 --> 01:05:28.420
<v Gary Panknin>Yes, actually, absolutely they are reusable in multiple times before they would end up needing to be recycled.</v>

01:05:28.430 --> 01:05:29.930
<v Gary Panknin>So we have a couple.</v>

01:05:31.310 --> 01:05:34.080
<v Gary Panknin>Reuse programs that are being piloted out there.</v>

01:05:34.090 --> 01:05:37.620
<v Gary Panknin>With that, currently, I think of Vermont as one of them.</v>

01:05:37.630 --> 01:05:44.940
<v Gary Panknin>That's actually doing a reuse program to where they bring them back, and they'll clean them and then reuse them to put them out there.</v>

01:05:45.430 --> 01:05:50.880
<v Gary Panknin>And so the answer your question is yes, they can be implemented into a reuse program.</v>

01:05:53.940 --> 01:05:55.470
<v Gary Panknin>There's just not one of those.</v>

01:05:55.480 --> 01:06:01.450
<v Gary Panknin>It's just not like a primary packaging bottle to where you can have a bottle station and go back and refill that type of thing.</v>

01:06:01.460 --> 01:06:07.330
<v Gary Panknin>It's more B&B business to business or consumer to business basically.</v>

01:06:08.240 --> 01:06:12.420
<v Gary Panknin>So there's the question is that type of program could be established.</v>

01:06:15.430 --> 01:06:15.640
<v Bertocci, Elena>Huh.</v>

01:06:15.670 --> 01:06:16.760
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Also just thinking.</v>

01:06:15.670 --> 01:06:17.980
<v Bertocci, Elena>I'm wondering if there's room for us.</v>

01:06:17.990 --> 01:06:22.610
<v Bertocci, Elena>I think there might be to, umm have different.</v>

01:06:25.600 --> 01:06:32.590
<v Bertocci, Elena>Levels of requirement in and in terms of convenience and statewide collection and stuff.</v>

01:06:33.440 --> 01:06:39.820
<v Bertocci, Elena>Uh, if for a reuse program, does anyone have any?</v>

01:06:39.930 --> 01:06:41.860
<v Bertocci, Elena>I mean, that's not a well thought out idea.</v>

01:06:41.870 --> 01:06:43.660
<v Bertocci, Elena>That's just something that I thought of just now.</v>

01:06:43.840 --> 01:06:50.090
<v Bertocci, Elena>When Barnes, that question is that something that immediately upsets people?</v>

01:06:56.610 --> 01:06:56.750
<v Bertocci, Elena>Yeah.</v>

01:06:56.810 --> 01:06:57.990
<v Nadeau, Jessica>And that's why you had something.</v>

01:06:56.230 --> 01:06:58.670
<v Gary Panknin>Is is that a question for me or is OK?</v>

01:06:58.720 --> 01:07:00.070
<v Bertocci, Elena>That's a general question.</v>

01:07:01.540 --> 01:07:13.740
<v Gary Panknin>Oh, I think it's something that could be considered if it could be layered within the the framework to where reuse programs can be established.</v>

01:07:13.750 --> 01:07:22.780
<v Gary Panknin>I'm not sure if that would be something that would be through an SO or or PRO, or how that might work, or if that would just be independent.</v>

01:07:23.590 --> 01:07:27.000
<v Gary Panknin>If somebody was to come on board and wanted to establish a full.</v>

01:07:30.600 --> 01:07:33.420
<v Gary Panknin>Program to facilitate the reuse of the product.</v>

01:07:34.730 --> 01:07:37.230
<v Gary Panknin>No, there could be something that could be worthwhile.</v>

01:07:39.310 --> 01:07:40.560
<v Andy Hackman>I I would only offer.</v>

01:07:40.570 --> 01:07:44.720
<v Andy Hackman>I'm not sure reuse versus recycling.</v>

01:07:44.730 --> 01:07:58.280
<v Andy Hackman>I mean, if you create a different threshold for if it say it's a mail back program or you know because it doesn't matter if if the threshold was different for reuse programs.</v>

01:07:58.290 --> 01:08:07.680
<v Andy Hackman>If everything else is held equal, right, like the the transportation to a producer or to a processing site, etcetera.</v>

01:08:08.170 --> 01:08:26.080
<v Andy Hackman>If everything else is equal, if it's a mailback, is probably the easiest way to compare where you know other systems that go through transfer stations or MRF and and back to a producer are going to have different potential footprints.</v>

01:08:26.090 --> 01:08:38.780
<v Andy Hackman>But if if everything is held equal, I haven't read in the law that that there is a bill, that there is a enough of a preference for reuse to suggest, I mean, within the hierarchy there is.</v>

01:08:38.790 --> 01:09:10.540
<v Andy Hackman>So there's, there's that reference, but if we're looking to encourage materials moving into these systems, which are probably going to be better environmental outcomes in general, perhaps then having to process materials altogether and pick them out, and that's probably gonna be a, you know, these these alternative collection programs are going to be more dedicated per for producers, probably more likely for reuse scenario anyway.</v>

01:09:12.020 --> 01:09:12.570
<v Bertocci, Elena>Yeah. So.</v>

01:09:10.550 --> 01:09:39.010
<v Andy Hackman>But if if the structure of the regulation was set up such that there is such a definite preference that you get automatic approval, I don't say automatic approval but a lower burden or lower threshold for a reuse program that could cause I think it may discourage you know producers from from going down this path that they don't see overuse path, but they might see a recycling path to to you know manage and program themselves.</v>

01:09:40.370 --> 01:09:40.740
<v Gary Panknin>Yeah.</v>

01:09:40.170 --> 01:09:40.860
<v Andy Hackman>Does that make sense?</v>

01:09:40.750 --> 01:09:47.620
<v Gary Panknin>I think part of the yeah, I think part of that might be built around the end markets for the material as well.</v>

01:09:48.940 --> 01:09:49.160
<v Andy Hackman>Yeah.</v>

01:09:49.230 --> 01:09:57.140
<v Gary Panknin>If you take a, if you think of colored HDPE, the end market right now is is demand is pretty low.</v>

01:09:58.140 --> 01:10:10.400
<v Gary Panknin>Ohh, but I've seen that it's been pretty volatile on whether it's gonna be good or not like the pipe industry and some of the other industries that might use that color material so to to your point, Andy.</v>

01:10:10.410 --> 01:10:27.570
<v Gary Panknin>I mean if if the end market it doesn't doesn't support the collection for recycling of the material that it might be more gravitated, more beneficial to be a reuse type model with that material.</v>

01:10:37.210 --> 01:10:37.530
<v Bertocci, Elena>Thanks.</v>

01:10:39.240 --> 01:10:39.400
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Yeah.</v>

01:10:36.600 --> 01:10:39.880
<v Gary Panknin>At least from a circularity level to to keep it in use.</v>

01:10:42.170 --> 01:10:45.380
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Yeah, I think we have a Vanessa here in the room.</v>

01:10:45.490 --> 01:10:52.900
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Yeah, just comments really quickly cause Andy had got my wheels turning about the potential for like mail back.</v>

01:10:53.290 --> 01:10:55.600
<v Nadeau, Jessica>And I think one maybe caveat.</v>

01:10:55.610 --> 01:11:04.480
<v Nadeau, Jessica>I would just add is that that's like free to consumer paid for by producers, right and and not I know there are programs in Maine that currently exist.</v>

01:11:04.570 --> 01:11:20.230
<v Nadeau, Jessica>It's not the most equitable system, potentially because if a consumer has to pay for uh, you know a a box or a label for their packaging waste to send that back, that's going to be a barrier to participation.</v>

01:11:20.240 --> 01:11:43.600
<v Nadeau, Jessica>So I guess I just wanted to make maybe that distinction that if it's paid for by producers for that type of system, I just just wanting to throw that out there because I know that there's a current, there's current infrastructure for mail back programs, but it's not the most accessible to the general public across the state of Maine, just based on that price point.</v>

01:11:45.900 --> 01:11:46.150
<v Andy Hackman>Yeah.</v>

01:11:46.160 --> 01:12:22.860
<v Andy Hackman>I mean, I think it's a factor that could be evaluated in your application for alternative collection program, if that's that's a data point, you know I know my my most relevant experiences is you know the coffee pod technology and that is producer funded you know but mail back labels that type of thing I could foresee there being you know an evaluation criteria on on and have to go back and go back to the law line by line but and the the whole concept of EPR is moving that cost to producers right.</v>

01:12:22.950 --> 01:12:32.850
<v Andy Hackman>You know the I I'm honestly not familiar with any producer run program where you pay to mail back the packaging.</v>

01:12:33.550 --> 01:12:48.860
<v Andy Hackman>Uh, all the ones that I've seen are like, you know, and my my, you know, printer cartridges, you know, just had one go out the other day and and, you know, the company with two initials, you know, monitors through the Internet.</v>

01:12:48.870 --> 01:12:54.520
<v Andy Hackman>My my usage, they know that my ink is low and they proactively send me my next cartridge.</v>

01:12:55.010 --> 01:12:59.470
<v Andy Hackman>They bill me for for the cartridge, but they don't bill me for the.</v>

01:13:01.340 --> 01:13:02.440
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Right swap.</v>

01:13:01.090 --> 01:13:03.500
<v Andy Hackman>The shipping label to to send that back.</v>

01:13:03.810 --> 01:13:06.520
<v Andy Hackman>It's probably as as an EPR right?</v>

01:13:06.530 --> 01:13:13.970
<v Andy Hackman>Like I'm sure it's built into my overall price for that printer cartridge, which would be the same for, you know, the entire structure of this law.</v>

01:13:14.550 --> 01:13:24.740
<v Andy Hackman>But I'm actually not familiar with any producer run program where they say hey, if you want to send that back to us, you know you gotta pay, you know, $5 for a box maybe.</v>

01:13:24.750 --> 01:13:40.240
<v Andy Hackman>You know, I can see wanting to discourage that type of approach from happening in in the program, but I don't think one, I don't think the law authorizes the regs to say you can't, you know, do that.</v>

01:13:40.460 --> 01:14:11.400
<v Andy Hackman>But it could be easily, I think, a factor that the department puts in the regs like in a you know, as you evaluate a program and alternative control program application you know is there a cost to the consumer is there you know what's the market size of the entity that's applying for the alternative collection program, what's the anticipated collection rate, what's the materials, you know, what's the type of of product that's gonna be managed through an alternative collection program.</v>

01:14:11.410 --> 01:14:16.450
<v Andy Hackman>So you know, if it's toxic, you know, there's probably greater justification too.</v>

01:14:16.460 --> 01:14:22.120
<v Andy Hackman>If it's, if it's a product that it exhibits, you know toxic, you know, not not.</v>

01:14:22.130 --> 01:14:24.750
<v Andy Hackman>Not picking on Mark, but like there are other categories too, right?</v>

01:14:24.760 --> 01:14:26.270
<v Andy Hackman>Like where? Right?</v>

01:14:26.280 --> 01:14:26.580
<v Andy Hackman>We don't.</v>

01:14:27.230 --> 01:14:29.220
<v Andy Hackman>One, are HDPE going?</v>

01:14:29.790 --> 01:14:35.120
<v Andy Hackman>You know that has toxic going, you know, back into milk jugs necessarily cause the FDA doesn't allow that, you know.</v>

01:14:35.130 --> 01:14:36.740
<v Andy Hackman>So there's all all of that to it.</v>

01:14:36.750 --> 01:14:41.960
<v Andy Hackman>But like you could have a regulation right that lists and you probably already do, right?</v>

01:14:42.010 --> 01:14:53.400
<v Andy Hackman>Let it lists a number of different criteria that can be evaluated and you know not every box is gonna be necessarily checked in the application because you might not be toxic, right?</v>

01:14:53.590 --> 01:14:59.740
<v Andy Hackman>You know and have to provide any information in there you might be, you know, or organic potion.</v>

01:14:59.810 --> 01:15:00.900
<v Andy Hackman>You know that type of thing.</v>

01:15:00.910 --> 01:15:10.510
<v Andy Hackman>So, but I think you could include in there to Vanessa, to your point, you know, is there a cost to the consumer questionmark, you know yes or no.</v>

01:15:10.570 --> 01:15:12.870
<v Andy Hackman>Like, no, we pay for the the shipping label.</v>

01:15:13.020 --> 01:15:14.760
<v Andy Hackman>You know that that type of thing.</v>

01:15:23.390 --> 01:15:24.010
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Thank you, Andy.</v>

01:15:26.640 --> 01:15:27.910
<v Bertocci, Elena>Thanks for bringing that up, Vanessa.</v>

01:15:49.340 --> 01:15:49.560
<v Bertocci, Elena>Right.</v>

01:15:36.970 --> 01:15:52.940
<v Nadeau, Jessica>And you may be right, Andy, that they maybe there are maybe not as many producer you know created programs, but there are some third party ones that collaborate with producers that are a paid a pay to play kind of thing.</v>

01:15:53.030 --> 01:15:55.830
<v Nadeau, Jessica>So yeah, just wanted to make sure I put that in there.</v>

01:15:57.790 --> 01:15:59.250
<v Bertocci, Elena>Yes, I've been assuming that.</v>

01:15:59.260 --> 01:16:01.160
<v Bertocci, Elena>That's what Andy had been suggesting.</v>

01:16:01.270 --> 01:16:03.020
<v Bertocci, Elena>But I'm I'm glad we talked about that more.</v>

01:16:03.630 --> 01:16:05.150
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Yeah, it was good to get that clarification.</v>

01:16:12.210 --> 01:16:12.830
<v Nadeau, Jessica>OK.</v>

01:16:12.840 --> 01:16:22.270
<v Nadeau, Jessica>So I'd say all of our reuse discussion address the second and last additional question we had in the background document.</v>

01:16:25.030 --> 01:16:25.170
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Uh.</v>

01:16:30.030 --> 01:16:43.000
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Yep, in statute, there's a list of reporting requirements for an alternative collection program, and one of them just ask for any additional information required by the department.</v>

01:16:43.010 --> 01:16:46.900
<v Nadeau, Jessica>And we just threw a question out there for you all.</v>

01:16:46.910 --> 01:16:50.810
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Is is there any additional information that should be required?</v>

01:16:56.060 --> 01:16:57.200
<v Bertocci, Elena>That's in addition to.</v>

01:16:58.600 --> 01:16:59.630
<v Bertocci, Elena>Tons collected.</v>

01:16:59.890 --> 01:17:00.130
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Yep.</v>

01:16:59.640 --> 01:17:05.100
<v Bertocci, Elena>How it's managed a list of collection opportunities, description of education and outreach.</v>

01:17:05.830 --> 01:17:06.130
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Correct.</v>

01:17:06.520 --> 01:17:09.250
<v Bertocci, Elena>So those are the three that are enumerated, enumerated.</v>

01:17:09.260 --> 01:17:10.230
<v Bertocci, Elena>Is there anything else that?</v>

01:17:12.930 --> 01:17:14.530
<v Bertocci, Elena>Sticks out as something that I mean.</v>

01:17:14.540 --> 01:17:15.820
<v Bertocci, Elena>We talked about a couple.</v>

01:17:16.150 --> 01:17:30.880
<v Bertocci, Elena>One thing that was mentioned was percent of the industry represented, but I guess those were as part of mentioned as part of the not their annual reporting, but rather the initial application.</v>

01:18:00.300 --> 01:18:11.980
<v Nadeau, Jessica>This one thing I might ask is is they're gonna be umm, you know, some sort of map or database through the DEP or through the stewardship organization.</v>

01:18:12.730 --> 01:18:34.900
<v Nadeau, Jessica>So that the consumers can find all of these alternative collection program sites, because that seems like a good thing to check in ongoing is I guess that's under 2A list of the collection opportunities in the state but but yeah till maybe go a little bit further and say that that should be a resource that's available to the public.</v>

01:18:37.270 --> 01:18:38.260
<v Bertocci, Elena>That's an interesting idea.</v>

01:18:38.270 --> 01:18:57.130
<v Bertocci, Elena>And so not so like usually a collection program will on their website have a list of sites, but instead of like having to go to a website for your pesticides products and having to go for a website to a website for your, I don't know glass and having to go for a website for this and this and this you could just all in one spot.</v>

01:18:57.950 --> 01:19:08.060
<v Nadeau, Jessica>I mean, you could certainly do both, but I think having, I mean you already do that through the department with the help me recycle tool for some of the other product stewardship programs.</v>

01:19:08.070 --> 01:19:16.200
<v Nadeau, Jessica>So for batteries and light bulbs and other things, there's a map you can access with pinpoint locations of retailers that take things back.</v>

01:19:16.210 --> 01:19:25.060
<v Nadeau, Jessica>And so I'm I'm wondering if we also want to consider having the department share resource very similar for packaging materials.</v>

01:19:26.120 --> 01:19:26.420
<v Bertocci, Elena>Speak.</v>

01:19:25.610 --> 01:19:28.300
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Part of it, yes, I was requirement to said.</v>

01:19:28.570 --> 01:19:32.000
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Keep that list current and yeah, the list from current at all.</v>

01:19:32.060 --> 01:19:39.280
<v Nadeau, Jessica>At least a link to the alternative programs pages.</v>

01:19:39.360 --> 01:19:45.180
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Yeah, something the factor in, I could just see that being really useful for municipalities to share that resource.</v>

01:19:45.190 --> 01:19:50.330
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Maybe it's something that they can embed on their websites, like you know something that shareable.</v>

01:19:50.340 --> 01:19:54.080
<v Nadeau, Jessica>That the public can have access to, to see all of them together.</v>

01:19:54.090 --> 01:19:55.430
<v Nadeau, Jessica>I think that would be really beneficial.</v>

01:19:59.520 --> 01:20:00.140
<v Bertocci, Elena>And agree.</v>

01:19:58.850 --> 01:20:07.960
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Ohh, I've got Andy and Zoe, so I'm gonna make you both presenters Andy 1st and Zoe.</v>

01:20:10.740 --> 01:20:14.410
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Yeah, but this is part of that should evolve, OK.</v>

01:20:25.620 --> 01:20:25.780
<v Bertocci, Elena>Yeah.</v>

01:20:16.130 --> 01:20:27.690
<v Andy Hackman>Today, to make that the requirement for the SO would be challenging, I because right the SO it's the department that approves they're alternative collection programs.</v>

01:20:27.700 --> 01:20:30.400
<v Andy Hackman>That's not the SO that does that.</v>

01:20:30.460 --> 01:20:41.350
<v Andy Hackman>OK, not that you couldn't outsource it to the SO and maybe that's a sub agreement between the department and the SO if they're maintaining the technology and there's data that's flowing to the SL.</v>

01:20:41.360 --> 01:20:47.690
<v Andy Hackman>But technically, I would argue if I were, if I were the attorney for the SO, I'd be like this isn't a requirement.</v>

01:20:47.700 --> 01:20:55.670
<v Andy Hackman>That statue puts on us to maintain your creative collection program website, like that's a department function.</v>

01:20:55.680 --> 01:21:02.200
<v Andy Hackman>I would would would argue, humbly that that that's something you could you could potentially contract for.</v>

01:21:03.780 --> 01:21:05.420
<v Andy Hackman>But I don't think you could mandate that.</v>

01:21:06.900 --> 01:21:16.130
<v Bertocci, Elena>Well, it's almost like the alternative collection programs are the material that's separate from the SO, the material that the SO is not responsible for.</v>

01:21:16.140 --> 01:21:19.220
<v Bertocci, Elena>It's it's very yeah.</v>

01:21:16.740 --> 01:21:19.380
<v Andy Hackman>Yeah, yeah, yeah.</v>

01:21:19.430 --> 01:21:29.860
<v Andy Hackman>So to have them maintain a website that finds all of marked drop off locations, it's like you know, it's like that's nice.</v>

01:21:29.870 --> 01:21:33.660
<v Andy Hackman>But you know, we marks not a member of ours, right?</v>

01:21:45.540 --> 01:21:45.780
<v Bertocci, Elena>Right.</v>

01:21:33.670 --> 01:21:47.780
<v Andy Hackman>Like they're getting no money and they're only getting money from their to alternative collection population for the material that's not managed through their system, because that they fully acknowledge that right?</v>

01:21:47.790 --> 01:21:55.590
<v Andy Hackman>Like if Mark not picking on your program, but this is an example, say you you could fully do collect 85% of the marketplace.</v>

01:21:55.600 --> 01:22:03.860
<v Andy Hackman>There's 15% that you know, that cost will still have to be covered by, you know, either by the SO.</v>

01:22:03.870 --> 01:22:06.380
<v Andy Hackman>Yeah, but it would be going there.</v>

01:22:06.390 --> 01:22:10.540
<v Andy Hackman>So because it's managed through municipal program in some sense, right?</v>

01:22:11.900 --> 01:22:25.470
<v Andy Hackman>Allowing that the municipality is participating in this is where it gets a little complex, but allowing the that that the municipalities with that volume is lost to your system is participating in the program.</v>

01:22:25.700 --> 01:22:26.960
<v Andy Hackman>If I've got that right.</v>

01:22:26.970 --> 01:22:29.690
<v Andy Hackman>But you know, they're they're they're for.</v>

01:22:29.760 --> 01:22:34.790
<v Andy Hackman>Let's say Mark gets to 100% like there's there and then they don't owe anything to the SO, right?</v>

01:22:34.870 --> 01:23:01.950
<v Andy Hackman>Like that would be, uh, totally outside of their scope and and and awareness and but I can foresee there being enough practical real world application for the department to say hey to the SO, could you maintain this as as part of your your final agreement at just would be outside of the scope of the law the OR or acquirement of the law.</v>

01:23:03.960 --> 01:23:06.590
<v Bertocci, Elena>Right, right.</v>

01:23:06.600 --> 01:23:23.200
<v Bertocci, Elena>And I don't think it's, you know, and sometimes in this discussion when we talk about, well, if they were to get to 100%, it's like not realistic, but like in the case of these alternative collection programs, I think it is very realistic because you potentially have umm.</v>

01:23:25.720 --> 01:23:32.380
<v Bertocci, Elena>20% of the marketplace, umm, for dissipating in the alternative collection program.</v>

01:23:33.560 --> 01:23:38.530
<v Bertocci, Elena>And if they have a decent program, they're probably gonna be able to get the equivalent.</v>

01:23:38.540 --> 01:23:45.230
<v Bertocci, Elena>If they've only putting in 20%, they're probably gonna be able to get their 20% back and then not have to, umm, paying it all.</v>

01:23:45.720 --> 01:23:49.280
<v Bertocci, Elena>I think that's a, you know, a really a a very real possibility.</v>

01:23:50.700 --> 01:23:51.910
<v Bertocci, Elena>Umm, but I.</v>

01:23:52.080 --> 01:23:52.310
<v Andy Hackman>It.</v>

01:23:51.920 --> 01:23:52.890
<v Bertocci, Elena>But I also agree with Vanessa.</v>

01:23:52.900 --> 01:23:58.020
<v Bertocci, Elena>That's a great the the resource, the idea for the resource is a very good one.</v>

01:23:59.790 --> 01:24:00.460
<v Andy Hackman>I agree too.</v>

01:24:00.470 --> 01:24:05.560
<v Andy Hackman>It's in my comment wasn't meant to to take anyway from the idea, I think it's a great idea.</v>

01:24:06.140 --> 01:24:06.320
<v Bertocci, Elena>Hey.</v>

01:24:05.570 --> 01:24:06.940
<v Andy Hackman>I think it would help all of us, right?</v>

01:24:06.950 --> 01:24:34.660
<v Andy Hackman>Like to to do today and I think to your point there, there's an incentive too, right for the producers to get to 100%, perhaps more incentive in an alternative collection program, right, because you are going to have to remit for the other portion and you've got potentially greater control over your system, right, like the, the, the you know the IT it it, it would function essentially like a mini PRO, right like you said.</v>

01:24:34.710 --> 01:24:41.750
<v Andy Hackman>So you would have greater ability to potentially to deliver outcomes from your vendors.</v>

01:24:41.790 --> 01:25:04.510
<v Andy Hackman>So if you had, you know, relationships with retailers for drop off and they were performance, you know requirements and and the contract between the collection organization and you know the retailers that you're contracted with, you know you would maybe expect to see greater performance and and and and potentially greater market value for your material, right.</v>

01:25:04.520 --> 01:25:15.640
<v Andy Hackman>Because if it's a segregated material, you know it might have higher market value to pull through the system if it's being recycled or you know, obviously reuse would be a different scenario.</v>

01:25:15.650 --> 01:25:19.730
<v Andy Hackman>But anyway, so sorry that just going.</v>

01:25:22.130 --> 01:25:22.600
<v Nadeau, Jessica>OK.</v>

01:25:23.190 --> 01:25:23.790
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Thank you.</v>

01:25:25.420 --> 01:25:27.210
<v Nadeau, Jessica>And Zoe, You're up.</v>

01:25:29.470 --> 01:25:30.230
<v Zoe Malia  (Guest)>So can you hear me OK?</v>

01:25:31.270 --> 01:25:31.770
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Yes, yes.</v>

01:25:32.610 --> 01:25:33.260
<v Zoe Malia  (Guest)>OK, great.</v>

01:25:33.310 --> 01:25:33.770
<v Zoe Malia  (Guest)>Hi everyone.</v>

01:25:35.100 --> 01:25:45.600
<v Zoe Malia  (Guest)>Something that came to my studies was figuring out some way to have some more transparency and traceability on what's actually happening, the materials.</v>

01:25:46.580 --> 01:25:56.170
<v Zoe Malia  (Guest)>So for example, I was thinking about in our situation at Allagash, we handle lots of fact checking serials which have been talked about a bunch there.</v>

01:25:56.180 --> 01:26:00.380
<v Zoe Malia  (Guest)>We take them back from the public and from other businesses and have them.</v>

01:26:01.160 --> 01:26:01.460
<v Zoe Malia  (Guest)>Uh.</v>

01:26:02.000 --> 01:26:11.970
<v Zoe Malia  (Guest)>recycled but they are not being reused at our facility and are not being recycled into new packages that they are being downcycled into composite decking through.</v>

01:26:12.660 --> 01:26:22.910
<v Zoe Malia  (Guest)>A third party, so I just thought it might be something to consider, sport consumers to have a better understanding of what is actually happening to these materials.</v>

01:26:23.300 --> 01:26:27.730
<v Zoe Malia  (Guest)>Are they being recycled and it's so into what and by whom?</v>

01:26:28.150 --> 01:26:29.890
<v Zoe Malia  (Guest)>I and that's all.</v>

01:26:29.900 --> 01:26:30.270
<v Zoe Malia  (Guest)>Thank you.</v>

01:26:32.850 --> 01:26:34.810
<v Bertocci, Elena>And do we think that's a normal?</v>

01:26:34.860 --> 01:26:38.240
<v Bertocci, Elena>I think that's an I I'm agree with you completely on transparency.</v>

01:26:38.330 --> 01:26:41.430
<v Bertocci, Elena>I I'm wondering, do we think it's a normal situation for?</v>

01:26:57.280 --> 01:26:58.100
<v Zoe Malia  (Guest)>Yeah, I think that.</v>

01:26:43.730 --> 01:26:59.100
<v Bertocci, Elena>There to be a fixed vendor versus the material going sort of on the market more generally and maybe that and use changes from month to month is I I have no idea whether you're you're scenario is normal or not.</v>

01:27:00.670 --> 01:27:03.400
<v Zoe Malia  (Guest)>So that's a really good point.</v>

01:27:03.490 --> 01:27:27.860
<v Zoe Malia  (Guest)>I mean, I think that it's probably different for everyone, but I just noticed from talking to other businesses, you know it can vary from like maybe every five months they have to switch because of something that happened or that that holler is no longer accepting that materials and then they have to find someone new and then that material to do somewhere else and maybe do something different.</v>

01:27:27.870 --> 01:27:37.610
<v Zoe Malia  (Guest)>So it's kind of a a juggle constantly, so that's why I that's why I got me thinking that because it could change, you know, one or two times translate within the year.</v>

01:27:39.120 --> 01:27:44.480
<v Bertocci, Elena>But we could potentially have that be part of the annual reporting and make that information public.</v>

01:27:44.180 --> 01:27:45.330
<v Zoe Malia  (Guest)>Correct.</v>

01:27:45.500 --> 01:27:46.130
<v Zoe Malia  (Guest)>Correct.</v>

01:27:46.140 --> 01:27:46.880
<v Zoe Malia  (Guest)>Yeah, that's that's.</v>

01:27:48.720 --> 01:27:50.650
<v Zoe Malia  (Guest)>Sorry I don't have the answer your question or.</v>

01:27:52.490 --> 01:27:53.750
<v Bertocci, Elena>No, that's that's a good idea.</v>

01:27:53.760 --> 01:27:54.130
<v Bertocci, Elena>Thank you.</v>

01:27:54.850 --> 01:27:55.610
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Very good idea.</v>

01:27:55.620 --> 01:27:56.100
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Thank you.</v>

01:28:19.660 --> 01:28:27.070
<v Nadeau, Jessica>OK, so now that we've warmed up a little bit, we've there's just.</v>

01:28:29.460 --> 01:28:38.180
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Left two other questions from the background document that we didn't get any input on and maybe we can just finish up with these. Umm.</v>

01:28:41.860 --> 01:28:56.160
<v Nadeau, Jessica>So when it comes to the cost associated with an alternative collection program, there is gonna be a reasonable annual fee established by the department.</v>

01:28:57.010 --> 01:29:08.480
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Umm, that covers costs for oversight, administration and enforcement, and it can be waived if significant department staff time is not necessary.</v>

01:29:09.240 --> 01:29:12.380
<v Nadeau, Jessica>So we proposed the question to you all.</v>

01:29:12.530 --> 01:29:13.650
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Uh, it's.</v>

01:29:15.830 --> 01:29:18.560
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Might a tiered fee structure be appropriate here?</v>

01:29:19.650 --> 01:29:21.850
<v Nadeau, Jessica>If so, how might we structure that?</v>

01:29:24.030 --> 01:29:31.170
<v Nadeau, Jessica>And yet, in any input on what constitutes significant department time.</v>

01:29:40.310 --> 01:29:53.870
<v Nadeau, Jessica>And I'm going to add that second one here too, but we just that fee for producers or a group of producers, how could it account for auditing when it comes to an alternative collection program?</v>

01:29:57.230 --> 01:29:59.520
<v Bertocci, Elena>And to what extent should there be auditing?</v>

01:30:02.860 --> 01:30:03.380
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Umm.</v>

01:30:00.290 --> 01:30:03.740
<v Bertocci, Elena>I guess is sort of the question behind that.</v>

01:30:06.320 --> 01:30:06.870
<v Bertocci, Elena>How much?</v>

01:30:06.920 --> 01:30:09.520
<v Bertocci, Elena>How much effort should be put into auditing those programs?</v>

01:30:26.930 --> 01:30:34.380
<v Bertocci, Elena>And I guess you know you have sort of traditional audits and then the and then I think you can also get back to that question about what else should be reported annually.</v>

01:30:34.430 --> 01:30:41.910
<v Bertocci, Elena>Are there certain pieces of information that, if reported annually would give Ohm?</v>

01:30:51.360 --> 01:30:51.500
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Yes.</v>

01:30:43.750 --> 01:30:53.110
<v Bertocci, Elena>A bit more assurance that we know what's happening, and I guess Zoey's idea about the transparency of where materials are going, that's sort of a good one.</v>

01:30:53.120 --> 01:30:56.300
<v Bertocci, Elena>I think that I don't know if there are others.</v>

01:31:12.060 --> 01:31:12.820
<v Nadeau, Jessica>No hands, no.</v>

01:31:12.830 --> 01:31:14.080
<v Nadeau, Jessica>We have a hand mark.</v>

01:31:14.090 --> 01:31:14.530
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Oh, we do.</v>

01:31:14.580 --> 01:31:15.060
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Ohh Mark.</v>

01:31:28.530 --> 01:31:29.760
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Mark, we made your presenter.</v>

01:31:31.150 --> 01:31:31.440
<v Mark Hudson>No.</v>

01:31:36.890 --> 01:31:37.220
<v Mark Hudson>There you go.</v>

01:31:38.020 --> 01:31:40.650
<v Mark Hudson>Sorry guys, I'm making sure that I'm hands free.</v>

01:31:40.660 --> 01:31:41.200
<v Mark Hudson>Can you hear me?</v>

01:31:42.130 --> 01:31:42.330
<v Bertocci, Elena>Yeah.</v>

01:31:41.590 --> 01:31:42.810
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Yes, we can.</v>

01:31:42.910 --> 01:31:43.450
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Thank you.</v>

01:31:45.120 --> 01:31:45.450
<v Mark Hudson>Yeah.</v>

01:31:45.460 --> 01:31:54.520
<v Mark Hudson>I just would say that your question is definitely one that we are interested in and and would like to have input to.</v>

01:31:55.560 --> 01:32:08.820
<v Mark Hudson>I it sounds like you're sort of asking for input, but I have honestly more questions than answers and it it it would be really around kind of, you know, like you've proposed this $10,000 maximum fee.</v>

01:32:08.830 --> 01:32:11.330
<v Mark Hudson>And then the idea of possibly a tiered approach.</v>

01:32:12.150 --> 01:32:12.480
<v Mark Hudson>No.</v>

01:32:25.490 --> 01:32:25.750
<v Bertocci, Elena>Right.</v>

01:32:12.670 --> 01:32:27.030
<v Mark Hudson>And so to me, it just begs questions around, you know what, when you talk about the significance of the time from the department, what are the types of activities that that fee would be covering?</v>

01:32:27.040 --> 01:32:35.900
<v Mark Hudson>And and you've mentioned auditing, I I would just say would certainly like to hear from you all.</v>

01:32:37.140 --> 01:32:37.530
<v Mark Hudson>What?</v>

01:32:37.800 --> 01:32:43.610
<v Mark Hudson>What do you all envision that fee being used to cover?</v>

01:32:43.620 --> 01:32:59.790
<v Mark Hudson>I mean, so there's there's the up front aspect of an alternative collection program applying to be, I guess, approved as an alternative collection program and and the staff time to review that and make that decision.</v>

01:33:00.740 --> 01:33:06.450
<v Mark Hudson>But once that's complete, then it's more around what I'll call ongoing maintenance, if you will.</v>

01:33:07.520 --> 01:33:09.840
<v Mark Hudson>And that might be where auditing comes in.</v>

01:33:10.670 --> 01:33:36.720
<v Mark Hudson>I think you've talked about a five year horizon for that, but you're in and year out other than the the the alternative collection program, uh providing reports or metrics that you are requesting and you're review of those, I mean, what else do you envision those funds being used to cover?</v>

01:33:40.300 --> 01:33:43.830
<v Bertocci, Elena>Well, in my mind, that's where the auditing question comes in.</v>

01:33:44.140 --> 01:33:45.990
<v Bertocci, Elena>Just how much right?</v>

01:33:46.000 --> 01:34:15.040
<v Bertocci, Elena>I think it depends how much work we think we should be doing on sort of double checking numbers and that sort of thing that's obviously going to be I would think would be directly related to to that fee because I agree with you, those are the sort of the obvious things upfront review, the report review, umm and then any review of any modifications and then write any sort of compliance assurance.</v>

01:34:16.800 --> 01:34:25.900
<v Bertocci, Elena>Umm, in a very slight administrative burden associated with accounting for the materials.</v>

01:34:29.730 --> 01:34:30.070
<v Mark Hudson>OK.</v>

01:34:29.750 --> 01:34:33.560
<v Nadeau, Jessica>I mean some of the review would be based on the program too.</v>

01:34:33.830 --> 01:34:47.610
<v Nadeau, Jessica>On the on the complexity of the and size of the program, different would involve different staff sign, so you know again, maybe with the tiered approach of I don't know somehow.</v>

01:34:50.750 --> 01:34:51.340
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Somehow.</v>

01:34:51.410 --> 01:34:52.400
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Yeah, somehow.</v>

01:34:52.690 --> 01:34:59.400
<v Nadeau, Jessica>You know, having if a program is quote easier to review and approve than others that are more complicated.</v>

01:35:03.410 --> 01:35:04.050
<v Nadeau, Jessica>And on it.</v>

01:35:07.550 --> 01:35:17.050
<v Mark Hudson>I apologize, I don't have the document right in front of me, but was the 10,000 or was the the the fee and do I recall, was that an annual fee or was that for the five year horizon?</v>

01:35:20.130 --> 01:35:20.620
<v Bertocci, Elena>Double check.</v>

01:35:22.270 --> 01:35:24.500
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Annual overcoming there.</v>

01:35:21.260 --> 01:35:25.830
<v Bertocci, Elena>Umm, I don't recall either without ticking umm.</v>

01:35:26.690 --> 01:35:27.190
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Our network.</v>

01:35:31.280 --> 01:35:32.190
<v Bertocci, Elena>It's way down in the.</v>

01:35:39.120 --> 01:35:42.000
<v Bertocci, Elena>Umm, a producer.</v>

01:35:43.960 --> 01:35:50.410
<v Bertocci, Elena>Operating shall pay to the apartment a reasonable annual fee not to exceed 10,000 per participating producer.</v>

01:35:50.600 --> 01:35:51.060
<v Bertocci, Elena>So that's.</v>

01:35:53.300 --> 01:35:55.710
<v Bertocci, Elena>Potentially a lot? Umm.</v>

01:35:55.160 --> 01:35:56.050
<v Mark Hudson>Yeah, that's that.</v>

01:35:56.060 --> 01:36:03.350
<v Mark Hudson>I think that was what raised my antennas is, you know, because I think it is said per producer.</v>

01:36:03.360 --> 01:36:09.850
<v Mark Hudson>And so, you know, let's just take our example where we're a collection program for a group of producers.</v>

01:36:10.880 --> 01:36:17.010
<v Mark Hudson>Umm, you know that that would be a what to me would seem a very unreasonable yeah.</v>

01:36:17.020 --> 01:36:39.400
<v Mark Hudson>If you went with the the $10,000 maximum, but I I think the comment that was just made a moment ago about the level of complexity of the program should also be a key factor in terms of what dictates the cost that the department would incur to help or to provide that oversight.</v>

01:36:41.590 --> 01:36:44.510
<v Mark Hudson>That's the right term, or at least auditing of the program.</v>

01:36:45.630 --> 01:36:47.260
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Well, I'll throw out this.</v>

01:36:47.270 --> 01:37:00.360
<v Nadeau, Jessica>I know like for example one of the programs in the department that requires department review, there's an initial kind of a minimum fee of like and I'll just draw out a number of.</v>

01:37:00.370 --> 01:37:03.730
<v Nadeau, Jessica>I don't know $500.00 a $1000 and then.</v>

01:37:05.930 --> 01:37:14.400
<v Nadeau, Jessica>And then there was a threshold of when staff time reached a point of of with that staff kept track of journaling.</v>

01:37:14.410 --> 01:37:18.740
<v Nadeau, Jessica>This would be a complexity chapt time of kept journal.</v>

01:37:18.750 --> 01:37:31.850
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Their time for review and then once it reached the threshold, then, then the in this case the client was build that extra time mean that's kind of a baseline approach.</v>

01:37:45.570 --> 01:37:46.580
<v Mark Hudson>Absolutely not.</v>

01:37:45.590 --> 01:37:46.910
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Right, yeah.</v>

01:37:35.050 --> 01:37:47.660
<v Bertocci, Elena>And another thing I can't help but note is that I'm not sure that the cost of review increases by the number of producers that are participating right, like, yeah.</v>

01:37:46.770 --> 01:37:49.520
<v Mark Hudson>I agree that's where to me.</v>

01:37:49.530 --> 01:38:04.420
<v Mark Hudson>I think if if it's an individual producer then and depending on like the again the level of complexity or the size you know maybe maybe uh something on the upper end of your scale could make sense.</v>

01:38:17.970 --> 01:38:18.220
<v Bertocci, Elena>Right.</v>

01:38:04.920 --> 01:38:26.070
<v Mark Hudson>But then by the same token, a program like ours that's made up of many producers, but yet it's one program that you're really auditing the program and not all, each and every producer, umm, the complexity is really driven by just auditing our program and the the metrics that would come out of that program.</v>

01:38:26.080 --> 01:38:43.300
<v Mark Hudson>And so to me the the cost or the yeah, the cost and the time that's required by the department could be exactly the same to audit a program like ours as it could be to audit a program that's just one producer.</v>

01:38:45.740 --> 01:38:59.130
<v Mark Hudson>And so in that in that instance, the fees should be almost a because it really if if again it's driven by the the complexity and the time requirement shouldn't be driven by how many producers or.</v>

01:39:01.340 --> 01:39:04.780
<v Mark Hudson>You know, revenue or anything of those that sort?</v>

01:39:10.260 --> 01:39:11.420
<v Bertocci, Elena>Thanks for bringing that up, Mark.</v>

01:39:12.000 --> 01:39:12.470
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Yes.</v>

01:39:12.580 --> 01:39:13.290
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Thank you.</v>

01:39:13.640 --> 01:39:17.080
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Ohh, and Chris has his hand up so I'm gonna make Chris a presenter, OK?</v>

01:39:22.350 --> 01:39:24.250
<v Nadeau, Jessica>And Chris you should be good to go.</v>

01:39:26.570 --> 01:39:27.280
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>Alright.</v>

01:39:28.070 --> 01:39:35.590
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>Yes, Chris, from RPM eco, just to going back to this question, we split the categories in three sections.</v>

01:39:35.600 --> 01:39:53.480
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>So for the Pro will have like the promotion parts and after that the managing which could could be an including the audit and they are are we call it the other housekeeping and after that the third part would be the financial tools or accounting a bit like Elena mentioned.</v>

01:39:53.790 --> 01:40:13.350
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>And regarding the fees and everything, we believe that the the PRO should come up with the feasibility plan that should include an assessment and kind of business plan to be approved by the SO and that should cover like a lot of things and makes sense and hopefully that's my comment.</v>

01:40:17.380 --> 01:40:17.870
<v Nadeau, Jessica>OK.</v>

01:40:18.120 --> 01:40:18.590
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Thank you.</v>

01:40:18.600 --> 01:40:19.030
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Thanks, Chris.</v>

01:40:26.430 --> 01:40:27.800
<v Bertocci, Elena>I wonder if that's almost.</v>

01:40:30.220 --> 01:40:37.290
<v Bertocci, Elena>Related to the becoming readily recyclable piece too, in terms of the needs assessment.</v>

01:40:47.010 --> 01:40:48.360
<v Nadeau, Jessica>OK, I I've.</v>

01:40:53.620 --> 01:40:54.390
<v Bertocci, Elena>And I think I've got.</v>

01:40:54.400 --> 01:40:55.610
<v Bertocci, Elena>I think I've got one more.</v>

01:40:50.710 --> 01:40:56.290
<v Nadeau, Jessica>I've I've asked all the questions that we've we included in the background document, OK.</v>

01:40:55.680 --> 01:41:27.310
<v Bertocci, Elena>I don't know if we actually included in the document or not, but at one point we were talking about, so part of the process associated with this alternative collection program is a group of producers, applies the department approves and if the department finds that the producers are not operating consistently in, in a manner that's consistent with the plan, it can say you're messing this up, fix it and provide you know within X amount of time.</v>

01:41:27.900 --> 01:41:34.870
<v Bertocci, Elena>And if the producers don't fix it with an within X amount of time, they don't get credit for any of their material.</v>

01:41:37.580 --> 01:41:40.280
<v Bertocci, Elena>Presumably until it's fixed. Umm.</v>

01:41:43.580 --> 01:41:47.720
<v Bertocci, Elena>The X amount of time do we have any thoughts on?</v>

01:41:47.730 --> 01:41:54.290
<v Bertocci, Elena>I mean, that's obviously to a certain extent probably wants to be related to the problem and how complicated it is to fix.</v>

01:41:54.870 --> 01:42:02.400
<v Bertocci, Elena>But do we have any thoughts on what that those time frames might be in terms of how long producers get to fix any problems?</v>

01:42:03.420 --> 01:42:05.390
<v Bertocci, Elena>I don't know if we want to place a range.</v>

01:42:05.960 --> 01:42:06.990
<v Bertocci, Elena>If that feels appropriate.</v>

01:42:10.620 --> 01:42:17.790
<v Bertocci, Elena>Umm, because otherwise it's going to feel a little bit like, I don't know, the department will probably just ask the PRO how, what?</v>

01:42:17.800 --> 01:42:18.740
<v Bertocci, Elena>How much time do you need?</v>

01:42:19.370 --> 01:42:19.820
<v Bertocci, Elena>Umm.</v>

01:42:20.130 --> 01:42:21.630
<v Bertocci, Elena>Which might not be the best way of doing it.</v>

01:42:21.640 --> 01:42:22.210
<v Bertocci, Elena>Maybe it is.</v>

01:42:25.500 --> 01:42:28.910
<v Nadeau, Jessica>And then those reapproval's happen every five years.</v>

01:42:40.400 --> 01:42:43.720
<v Nadeau, Jessica>No, Chris has gotten comment.</v>

01:42:48.360 --> 01:42:48.870
<v Nadeau, Jessica>OK, Chris.</v>

01:42:54.870 --> 01:42:56.330
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Chris we did make you a presenter.</v>

01:42:57.750 --> 01:42:58.640
<v Bertocci, Elena>But you're still muted.</v>

01:42:58.990 --> 01:42:59.410
<v Bertocci, Elena>There you go.</v>

01:42:59.160 --> 01:42:59.730
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Out there we go.</v>

01:43:00.740 --> 01:43:01.010
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>Right.</v>

01:43:01.020 --> 01:43:15.790
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>Just on the the last point of Eleana, I'm talking about notification and after that the 30 days action for the company or the processor that you're looking to to address and after that it would be a fine.</v>

01:43:15.920 --> 01:43:18.670
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>And after the fine if it's still there.</v>

01:43:20.540 --> 01:43:20.710
<v Nadeau, Jessica>OK.</v>

01:43:18.680 --> 01:43:22.080
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>Legal procedure, that's why comment.</v>

01:43:26.820 --> 01:43:27.360
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Thank you.</v>

01:43:43.340 --> 01:43:43.800
<v Bertocci, Elena>Thanks Chris.</v>

01:43:50.130 --> 01:43:51.840
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Well, there's Gary's hand up.</v>

01:43:51.850 --> 01:43:52.570
<v Nadeau, Jessica>OK, great.</v>

01:43:52.580 --> 01:43:53.630
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Hold on one second, Gary.</v>

01:43:58.140 --> 01:43:59.400
<v Nadeau, Jessica>OK, you are on.</v>

01:44:00.280 --> 01:44:01.050
<v Gary Panknin>Perfect.</v>

01:44:01.130 --> 01:44:03.330
<v Gary Panknin>Uh, just a suggestion in regards to that.</v>

01:44:03.670 --> 01:44:23.670
<v Gary Panknin>No, it may be good to consider that maybe a plan is in place within 30 days before any type of fighters associated, and then depending on the outcome of that plan that's developed for correcting the situation.</v>

01:44:26.730 --> 01:44:28.140
<v Gary Panknin>Alright, I I tend to agree.</v>

01:44:28.150 --> 01:44:30.970
<v Gary Panknin>I find to be imposed of some sort of.</v>

01:44:34.890 --> 01:44:35.250
<v Nadeau, Jessica>So.</v>

01:44:34.740 --> 01:44:37.220
<v Gary Panknin>But it could be the plan that determines that length of time.</v>

01:44:37.230 --> 01:44:38.650
<v Gary Panknin>It depends on the situation.</v>

01:44:40.140 --> 01:44:40.930
<v Bertocci, Elena>Repeat again.</v>

01:44:38.660 --> 01:44:42.670
<v Gary Panknin>Could take longer to to correct the situation versus something else.</v>

01:44:42.680 --> 01:44:46.220
<v Gary Panknin>And to be fair, I would take a plan in place within 30 days.</v>

01:44:49.690 --> 01:44:50.150
<v Bertocci, Elena>Thanks Gary.</v>

01:44:51.170 --> 01:44:51.880
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Thank you.</v>

01:44:52.030 --> 01:44:53.530
<v Nadeau, Jessica>And mark.</v>

01:44:56.700 --> 01:44:57.840
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Mark, you're on too now.</v>

01:45:00.050 --> 01:45:07.320
<v Mark Hudson>Uh, yes, I I would echo some of the other comments, but suggest that to me the time horizon should be.</v>

01:45:08.480 --> 01:45:08.850
<v Mark Hudson>Uh.</v>

01:45:10.180 --> 01:45:14.810
<v Mark Hudson>Consistent or with or matched to the type of action that's needed.</v>

01:45:15.170 --> 01:45:23.230
<v Mark Hudson>So I could kind of foresee a couple of different types of actions, one being, let's call it reporting or documentation that's needed.</v>

01:45:23.420 --> 01:45:41.230
<v Mark Hudson>That is either delinquent or hasn't been properly completed, and the other might be actual execution of the plan execution, whether it be collection or something from a physical activities perspective.</v>

01:45:41.620 --> 01:45:48.350
<v Mark Hudson>And those could be very different in terms of the time horizons required to to provide a remedy.</v>

01:45:48.880 --> 01:46:19.640
<v Mark Hudson>But I I like the thought of, you know, maybe requiring a a written response or a a game plan within 30 to 60 days and then it, let's just say if it was a reporting delinquency that you know if there's no reason why that reporting delinquency shouldn't be able to be remedied in fairly short order that something maybe of a you know two or three months 60 to 90 day turn around.</v>

01:46:19.890 --> 01:46:35.410
<v Mark Hudson>If it's something that's a physical implementation or execution activity that for various reasons, might be more involved or take longer, then the, then the length of time should be commensurate with that.</v>

01:46:37.030 --> 01:46:48.190
<v Mark Hudson>But again, that if it was a physical activity, perhaps within a 30 to 60 day window, a written plan of response is required.</v>

01:46:48.600 --> 01:46:52.290
<v Mark Hudson>And then that has to be carried out within, you know, whatever is.</v>

01:46:52.300 --> 01:46:53.050
<v Mark Hudson>Prescribed.</v>

01:46:53.090 --> 01:47:02.080
<v Mark Hudson>You know, whether that's, you know, again, it could be a longer period for something that's physical execution, perhaps it's something that only can happen every so often.</v>

01:47:03.220 --> 01:47:18.130
<v Mark Hudson>In that case, you know, maybe it's a 90 to 120 day window or something along that line, but again, I think the the response should be tied to the type of activity that is is delinquent or missing or needs to be remedied.</v>

01:47:20.070 --> 01:47:20.440
<v Mark Hudson>Thank you.</v>

01:47:23.150 --> 01:47:23.740
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Thanks mark.</v>

01:47:23.990 --> 01:47:24.510
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Thank you.</v>

01:47:38.350 --> 01:47:53.040
<v Bertocci, Elena>So so I can see why it makes sense to have the timeline related to how long it's gonna, how you know how difficult the problem is to fix?</v>

01:47:53.930 --> 01:47:59.040
<v Bertocci, Elena>UM, but at the same time from a.</v>

01:48:01.280 --> 01:48:06.150
<v Bertocci, Elena>Collections perspective of program functioning perspective.</v>

01:48:06.580 --> 01:48:29.230
<v Bertocci, Elena>Some of those problems that are going to be more difficult to fix might be like especially crucial to program functioning right, like if it's a documentation issue like I feel like the department can kind of wait for that to a certain degree and versus like if materials stacking up and there's no outlet for it.</v>

01:48:30.230 --> 01:48:32.690
<v Bertocci, Elena>Umm, that would seem like something that.</v>

01:48:34.700 --> 01:48:47.060
<v Bertocci, Elena>Well, from an operations perspective, I can I can see an argument for providing more time for that type of situation from like a recycling practical perspective, one would want to probably give less time.</v>

01:48:47.630 --> 01:48:48.430
<v Bertocci, Elena>Does that make sense?</v>

01:48:49.310 --> 01:48:50.230
<v Bertocci, Elena>Are there some?</v>

01:48:50.270 --> 01:48:56.980
<v Bertocci, Elena>Are there some things that you know result in the program not functioning and would need to be fixed?</v>

01:48:57.990 --> 01:48:58.840
<v Bertocci, Elena>Uh, quickly.</v>

01:49:00.340 --> 01:49:00.710
<v Nadeau, Jessica>We have.</v>

01:49:00.720 --> 01:49:03.990
<v Nadeau, Jessica>You have got your collection points that are not being collected right?</v>

01:49:04.000 --> 01:49:06.700
<v Nadeau, Jessica>And then did stuff mounding up then yeah.</v>

01:49:21.080 --> 01:49:21.500
<v Nadeau, Jessica>OK.</v>

01:49:20.040 --> 01:49:22.550
<v Bertocci, Elena>I guess those are just competing.</v>

01:49:23.500 --> 01:49:24.020
<v Bertocci, Elena>Ohh mark.</v>

01:49:23.520 --> 01:49:24.680
<v Nadeau, Jessica>So yes, mark?</v>

01:49:36.470 --> 01:49:36.880
<v Mark Hudson>You hear me?</v>

01:49:35.370 --> 01:49:37.790
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Get your on? Yep.</v>

01:49:38.180 --> 01:50:04.140
<v Mark Hudson>Yeah, maybe, maybe, perhaps something that's of an environmental health or safety to turn to the department or to the could fall into that category, Elena, where, you know there's I think you said the the concept of something backing up in terms of collection and and now it's starting to become a nuisance or it's at risk of affecting the environment or what have you.</v>

01:50:04.550 --> 01:50:07.760
<v Mark Hudson>I agree with you that in that instance you know you.</v>

01:50:08.660 --> 01:50:11.710
<v Mark Hudson>You're not gonna want to have a a longer horizon.</v>

01:50:11.720 --> 01:50:21.260
<v Mark Hudson>It needs to be addressed, but you know, perhaps there's some interim measure that can be taken to at least remedy the immediate critical aspect of it.</v>

01:50:22.590 --> 01:50:38.000
<v Mark Hudson>But I, but I think that's a reasonable point and and to me the most obvious ones where where it as you're saying it could need to be addressed more quickly is when there's an environmental health or safety component to it.</v>

01:50:38.010 --> 01:50:40.210
<v Mark Hudson>And so perhaps that could be written into.</v>

01:50:40.300 --> 01:50:49.170
<v Mark Hudson>The sort of how you look at problems that need to be remedied by an alternative collection program.</v>

01:50:52.450 --> 01:50:52.840
<v Bertocci, Elena>Mm-hmm.</v>

01:50:54.540 --> 01:50:55.160
<v Bertocci, Elena>It makes sense.</v>

01:50:55.170 --> 01:50:59.690
<v Bertocci, Elena>That sounds like a potentially good line to draw.</v>

01:50:59.570 --> 01:51:00.860
<v Mark Hudson>I don't know their I haven't.</v>

01:51:05.320 --> 01:51:05.570
<v Bertocci, Elena>Right.</v>

01:51:00.870 --> 01:51:07.210
<v Mark Hudson>I haven't given enough thought to think if there are other categories like that, but certainly in the NHS, concern would be top of mind.</v>

01:51:11.310 --> 01:51:28.420
<v Nadeau, Jessica>I think the note about requiring a some sort of corrective action plan would be helpful in that's I'm just thinking about that specific situation where like they, they need to strategize how they're going to, you know, deal with that situation.</v>

01:51:46.020 --> 01:51:46.290
<v Bertocci, Elena>Mm-hmm.</v>

01:51:28.430 --> 01:51:47.790
<v Nadeau, Jessica>If it's building up of material at transfer stations or at a, you know retail drop off location of of some kind, you know if they can remedy that by consolidating it somewhere else and and storing it for a while in a safe manner before they can market that material.</v>

01:51:47.980 --> 01:51:56.230
<v Nadeau, Jessica>You know, I think requiring them to come up with some sort of corrective plan and then acting on that plan in good faith.</v>

01:51:56.240 --> 01:51:59.520
<v Nadeau, Jessica>I think that that should be I I think.</v>

01:51:59.530 --> 01:52:00.800
<v Nadeau, Jessica>I think that that should be considered.</v>

01:52:07.350 --> 01:52:09.110
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Like flushed out all my thoughts on my head.</v>

01:52:10.460 --> 01:52:12.120
<v Nadeau, Jessica>He mentioned nothing good.</v>

01:52:13.340 --> 01:52:15.250
<v Bertocci, Elena>The game plan does seem like an important step.</v>

01:52:15.800 --> 01:52:33.420
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Yeah, but possibly even going as far as to making like, a a game plan part of a of the requirement for program approval in the case that, you know, consider some of those things can happen.</v>

01:52:33.670 --> 01:52:34.260
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Yeah.</v>

01:52:34.250 --> 01:52:34.510
<v Bertocci, Elena>Mm-hmm.</v>

01:52:34.450 --> 01:52:40.670
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Is if for some reason the markets change and and something happens, what are?</v>

01:52:40.680 --> 01:52:53.380
<v Nadeau, Jessica>What's your plan to correct that so that it doesn't create all of these other become a DHS it right so woodchuck on the bank there saw them there last time.</v>

01:52:55.560 --> 01:52:55.990
<v Nadeau, Jessica>OK.</v>

01:52:56.000 --> 01:52:59.210
<v Nadeau, Jessica>That Elena, that question was in the background document.</v>

01:52:59.460 --> 01:53:08.310
<v Nadeau, Jessica>So now we have asked all the questions in the background document, so I think we'll just do a generic like open the floor to everybody.</v>

01:53:08.540 --> 01:53:15.580
<v Nadeau, Jessica>If there's anything you have to say, uh, put a hand up in will give you the floor.</v>

01:53:20.070 --> 01:53:20.190
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Yeah.</v>

01:53:21.580 --> 01:53:25.100
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Otherwise, we'll you you the rest of the afternoon back.</v>

01:53:27.050 --> 01:53:29.670
<v Bertocci, Elena>Any thoughts on reuse in particular?</v>

01:53:29.310 --> 01:53:29.680
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Yeah.</v>

01:53:36.260 --> 01:53:36.940
<v Nadeau, Jessica>I think it's a.</v>

01:53:37.860 --> 01:53:41.650
<v Nadeau, Jessica>It's a good Ave for an alternative collection program.</v>

01:53:41.740 --> 01:53:43.790
<v Nadeau, Jessica>We reuse program.</v>

01:53:44.380 --> 01:54:05.790
<v Nadeau, Jessica>I was also just going to maybe make a note about Glass being a good candidate potentially for an alternative collection program just because of the nature of the market for glass and umm, you know the the contamination once it goes through a MRF system can be problematic and helping it find markets.</v>

01:54:06.180 --> 01:54:14.710
<v Nadeau, Jessica>So I just, I would be remiss if I didn't suggest that as a potential material type that would be well suited for alternative collection.</v>

01:54:15.760 --> 01:54:19.040
<v Nadeau, Jessica>But you know, certainly reuses it is another good candidate.</v>

01:54:19.100 --> 01:54:19.480
<v Nadeau, Jessica>I don't know.</v>

01:54:20.880 --> 01:54:27.900
<v Nadeau, Jessica>I'll have to confer with my colleagues before I have any formal comments about it, but OK.</v>

01:54:28.270 --> 01:54:28.800
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Thank you.</v>

01:54:28.810 --> 01:54:29.160
<v Nadeau, Jessica>That was.</v>

01:54:28.830 --> 01:54:29.490
<v Bertocci, Elena>We got mark.</v>

01:54:29.870 --> 01:54:30.100
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Yeah.</v>

01:54:30.110 --> 01:54:32.400
<v Nadeau, Jessica>And then Mark's got comment.</v>

01:54:39.220 --> 01:55:02.710
<v Mark Hudson>Yeah, just the one last comment and I I sort of alluded to this earlier and that is maybe more of a request to the department to think about to the extent that the public has an influence on the effectiveness of the program or you know, so I'll, I'll just use our example.</v>

01:55:02.720 --> 01:55:21.460
<v Mark Hudson>But perhaps there's other alternative collection programs that could have similar kind of issues, but as I've said, if if the end user in our case presents a bunch of dirty containers, you know our expectation is that our contractors reject those and leave them at the collection site.</v>

01:55:21.510 --> 01:55:48.470
<v Mark Hudson>And so if the department, you know, gets notification from, you know some collection location or from the general public saying, hey, there's containers building up here, you know, you need to remedy the situation well, from our perspective, you know in other parts of the country we would that would be a part of how our program runs, right.</v>

01:55:48.480 --> 01:56:10.940
<v Mark Hudson>We leave containers that are not properly presented for recycling, so in in my my illustration there is just simply that there are ways that the public, the end users of of the packaging can affect the ability of an alternative collection program to carry out their duties.</v>

01:56:11.330 --> 01:56:29.270
<v Mark Hudson>And that instance, uh, you know our our ask of the department would be that you recognize that as a reality and that there be some happy balance between what's expected of an alternative collection program and what's what.</v>

01:56:29.340 --> 01:56:38.690
<v Mark Hudson>Onus is on the end user to comply with education and the community outreach that's been given to try to educate and train them on how it should be handled.</v>

01:56:38.700 --> 01:56:40.000
<v Mark Hudson>So that was it.</v>

01:56:42.780 --> 01:56:43.020
<v Nadeau, Jessica>OK.</v>

01:56:43.810 --> 01:56:44.200
<v Bertocci, Elena>Thanks mark.</v>

01:56:44.560 --> 01:56:45.150
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Thanks, mark.</v>

01:56:45.200 --> 01:56:48.760
<v Nadeau, Jessica>And Chris has comment too.</v>

01:56:56.100 --> 01:56:56.840
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Hi, Chris.</v>

01:56:56.090 --> 01:56:57.880
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>Yes, if if I yes.</v>

01:56:58.370 --> 01:56:58.980
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>Thank Brian.</v>

01:56:59.370 --> 01:57:03.280
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>Ohh if I could add, I think technology it's a very important.</v>

01:57:03.290 --> 01:57:16.560
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>If we if you want to make a decision on it and also again looking at what's going on in the other province and other states is very important, there's a lot of great program going on with the technology.</v>

01:57:16.570 --> 01:57:23.590
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>That's very advanced and that's that could solve a lot of problems at the at the generator.</v>

01:57:23.680 --> 01:57:25.090
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>Let's let's say so.</v>

01:57:25.420 --> 01:57:25.840
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>Thank you.</v>

01:57:27.420 --> 01:57:29.590
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>Ohh Eleana, is it possible to?</v>

01:57:29.840 --> 01:57:31.770
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>I could give you a call after this.</v>

01:57:32.400 --> 01:57:35.630
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>This one have a specific question but I don't wanna waste people time.</v>

01:57:37.090 --> 01:57:39.050
<v Bertocci, Elena>Maybe just stay on at the end of the meeting.</v>

01:57:39.520 --> 01:57:40.390
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>Yes, thank you.</v>

01:57:40.030 --> 01:57:40.430
<v Bertocci, Elena>Is that OK?</v>

01:57:40.960 --> 01:57:41.760
<v Chris Piché RPM eco (Invité)>Yes, great.</v>

01:57:42.990 --> 01:57:44.250
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Gary will make you a presenter.</v>

01:57:54.230 --> 01:57:54.470
<v Nadeau, Jessica>OK.</v>

01:57:54.540 --> 01:57:55.410
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Gary, you should be set.</v>

01:57:56.330 --> 01:57:56.630
<v Gary Panknin>Alright.</v>

01:57:56.640 --> 01:57:57.530
<v Gary Panknin>Well, thank you.</v>

01:57:57.570 --> 01:58:17.290
<v Gary Panknin>I just wanted real quick not to add any other suggestions or anything but to thank you all for allowing me to have a chance to have my voice heard during this meeting and I think it's some great discussion going on and happy to be involved and hopefully just continue being a part of it.</v>

01:58:19.270 --> 01:58:19.850
<v Gary Panknin>So thank you.</v>

01:58:19.110 --> 01:58:20.180
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Thank you, Gary.</v>

01:58:20.430 --> 01:58:20.790
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Thanks Gary.</v>

01:58:21.710 --> 01:58:22.020
<v Bertocci, Elena>Yeah.</v>

01:58:22.030 --> 01:58:22.940
<v Bertocci, Elena>Thanks for your input.</v>

01:58:22.950 --> 01:58:23.890
<v Bertocci, Elena>It's helpful.</v>

01:58:25.640 --> 01:58:26.050
<v Bertocci, Elena>It's helpful.</v>

01:58:33.390 --> 01:58:36.790
<v Nadeau, Jessica>OK, that might be the last of it.</v>

01:58:37.740 --> 01:58:38.930
<v Bertocci, Elena>The last of the last.</v>

01:58:39.330 --> 01:58:41.320
<v Nadeau, Jessica>The last of the last wow.</v>

01:58:42.290 --> 01:58:42.750
<v Bertocci, Elena>Look.</v>

01:58:41.790 --> 01:58:52.330
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Well, like to thank everyone for their participation and A and a particularly thank you to all who've made it through everyone.</v>

01:58:57.630 --> 01:58:57.910
<v Bertocci, Elena>What do you?</v>

01:58:52.340 --> 01:58:58.590
<v Nadeau, Jessica>And I think Andy and Vanessa have had perfect attendance.</v>

01:58:58.700 --> 01:58:59.840
<v Nadeau, Jessica>They're not sure who melts.</v>

01:59:01.030 --> 01:59:05.800
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Maybe a few others on the I'm sure a few others that I'm missing so.</v>

01:59:05.040 --> 01:59:08.830
<v Bertocci, Elena>They've had perfect attendance plus perfect. Umm.</v>

01:59:11.620 --> 01:59:12.360
<v Bertocci, Elena>I'm losing my mind.</v>

01:59:12.750 --> 01:59:13.210
<v Bertocci, Elena>Uh.</v>

01:59:13.750 --> 01:59:15.070
<v Bertocci, Elena>Participation.</v>

01:59:12.790 --> 01:59:15.660
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Participation. Participation.</v>

01:59:15.470 --> 01:59:18.660
<v Bertocci, Elena>Perfect participation grades for for Andy and Vanessa.</v>

01:59:19.990 --> 01:59:20.480
<v Nadeau, Jessica>OK.</v>

01:59:20.490 --> 01:59:31.220
<v Nadeau, Jessica>OK, as usual, recording and transcription will be available within the next week, and like I said, we're right on the edge of disseminating these conceptualized rules.</v>

01:59:31.230 --> 01:59:32.940
<v Nadeau, Jessica>So keep a lookout for that.</v>

01:59:34.350 --> 01:59:37.280
<v Nadeau, Jessica>What's the first subject that's gonna be sent out?</v>

01:59:37.350 --> 01:59:48.360
<v Nadeau, Jessica>It'll be a municipal reimbursement along with producer, some definition clarification questions that like algorithm for municipal reimbursement.</v>

01:59:48.370 --> 01:59:48.860
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Yeah. Yeah.</v>

01:59:48.870 --> 01:59:49.810
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Be there to pick apart.</v>

01:59:49.850 --> 01:59:54.600
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Yes, a little bit of auditing and that too because what we're finding is some of these are integrated.</v>

01:59:54.670 --> 01:59:55.280
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Yeah.</v>

01:59:55.320 --> 01:59:56.760
<v Nadeau, Jessica>So, OK.</v>

01:59:56.770 --> 01:59:58.250
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Well, Chris, stay on.</v>

01:59:58.260 --> 01:59:59.030
<v Nadeau, Jessica>But everyone else?</v>

01:59:59.040 --> 01:59:59.940
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Thank you very much.</v>

01:59:59.950 --> 02:00:00.510
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Thank you.</v>

02:00:00.730 --> 02:00:01.250
<v Bertocci, Elena>Thank you.</v>

02:00:06.780 --> 02:00:08.040
<v Bertocci, Elena>And she make Chris a presenter.</v>

02:00:08.680 --> 02:00:10.370
<v Nadeau, Jessica>Yeah, I'm gonna stop recording first.</v>

02:00:11.440 --> 02:00:13.770
<v Bertocci, Elena>Wow, sure that's a good idea.</v>