0:0:0.0 --> 0:0:2.820
Breton, Mary B
Oh, you both recording and transcription, yeah.
0:0:3.650 --> 0:0:4.820
Breton, Mary B
You go back to people.
0:0:11.700 --> 0:0:13.990
Breton, Mary B
OK, now click on people again.
0:0:15.610 --> 0:0:23.470
Breton, Mary B
So I did have a little bit looking for the charger charging station. I didn't see it on like all the way over. Yeah, you gotta go in the in the.
0:0:23.550 --> 0:0:25.50
Breton, Mary B
Yeah, they're in transit.
0:0:26.710 --> 0:0:44.740
Breton, Mary B
And then come all the way up behind the rage, just almost right behind the Rainbow study. Ohh. I see. Like, went to the rebuilding just the normal way that I go. And I was like, I can't get there from here. And then I didn't wanna go back out. They wanna just like wrap it up and go. Yeah, you're jumping a lot.
0:0:46.380 --> 0:0:47.190
Breton, Mary B
I couldn't like.
0:0:47.980 --> 0:0:58.270
Breton, Mary B
OK, regarding right now ready. We're under the assumption people in here last charger. Ohh they aren't OK. OK good anyway.
0:1:3.180 --> 0:1:4.520
Breton, Mary B
I guess I'll speak to my camera.
0:1:8.760 --> 0:1:9.730
Breton, Mary B
Hi everyone.
0:1:11.0 --> 0:1:13.660
Breton, Mary B
Can somebody raised their hand just to make sure we know you can hear us?
0:1:14.440 --> 0:1:15.760
Breton, Mary B
In the land of.
0:1:16.940 --> 0:1:19.560
Breton, Mary B
Perfect. Thank you. 
0:1:21.420 --> 0:1:28.810
Breton, Mary B
Also, just so people know, our front camera isn't working, so that's why we're kind of at an angle here. So hi everyone.
0:1:29.690 --> 0:1:35.640
Breton, Mary B
I wanna thank you for attending the stakeholder meeting for the Extended Producer Responsibility program for packaging.
0:1:36.480 --> 0:1:45.640
Breton, Mary B
I am Brian Beneski, the head of the Department Sustainability Unit, and I will be handling technical issues of the meeting along with Mary Breton, who's with our Commissioners office.
0:1:46.740 --> 0:1:57.610
Breton, Mary B
I'd also like to introduce Elena Bertocci and Jessica Nadeau. They are in the Sustainability Unit or are the stack and are the staff which are those implementing the EPR for packaging.
0:1:58.690 --> 0:2:1.530
Breton, Mary B
They will be acting as the moderators for this meeting.
0:2:3.140 --> 0:2:10.540
Breton, Mary B
These meetings are part of the stakeholder process and initiated by the department. This is the second meeting on the topic of the municipal reimbursement.
0:2:11.440 --> 0:2:20.600
Breton, Mary B
The first meeting was to provide a chance for stakeholders to he's dense comments and provide an opportunity to allow stakeholders to review each other's comments.
0:2:21.550 --> 0:2:29.640
Breton, Mary B
This second meeting provides an opportunity for the stakeholders to ask questions of each other regarding the various positions presented in the first meeting.
0:2:30.420 --> 0:2:35.90
Breton, Mary B
We will make sure that everyone who wishes to make a statement or ask a question will get a chance to do so.
0:2:35.810 --> 0:2:41.480
Breton, Mary B
I'd also like to add that this meeting is being recorded and that the recording should be available within the week.
0:2:42.210 --> 0:2:47.480
Breton, Mary B
Additionally, a transcript will also be made of this meeting and that should also be available within the week.
0:2:49.150 --> 0:3:19.450
Breton, Mary B
The information from all the comments submitted and these discussions will be used as the basis for drafting rules that would be submitted to the Board of Environmental Protection in December of 2023 this year, as part of the formal rulemaking process. Comment submittal is not limited to attendees of this meeting. The department will accept all comments for consideration that are submitted in writing new or additional comments can be presented at any time through the PR for packaging e-mail address found on our what our website.
0:3:20.890 --> 0:3:31.10
Breton, Mary B
Again, this meeting’s focused topic is on municipal reimbursements. We ask that discussions be kept to this specific topic as other stakeholder meetings will focus on other topics.
0:3:31.860 --> 0:3:49.510
Breton, Mary B
We currently have approximately 90 people who are registered to attend this meeting. As this is both an in person and virtual meeting, we ask that those who wish to speak raise their hand and hold your statements until a moderator recognizes you to allow us time to Mike you. So everyone hears your questions.
0:3:50.160 --> 0:3:55.690
Breton, Mary B
You do not have to be attending in person to ask questions or make a statement. Just use your raise hand feature.
0:3:56.540 --> 0:4:5.280
Breton, Mary B
I asked the people attending in person to try and keep background conversation to a minimum as we are using microphones in the ceiling and they are very sensitive to noise.
0:4:7.10 --> 0:4:20.960
Breton, Mary B
To start the conversation, Jessica will kick off the meeting with some issues regarding municipal reimbursement. For an in-depth discussion that we have identified after discussion on these issues, we will open the floor for attendees to bring up other issues for discussion.
0:4:22.320 --> 0:4:24.720
Breton, Mary B
I will now hand the meeting over to Elena and Jessica.
0:4:26.840 --> 0:4:28.910
Nadeau, Jessica
OK. Good afternoon, everyone.
0:4:29.610 --> 0:4:33.810
Nadeau, Jessica
I see  familiar faces in house and then some familiar names.
0:4:35.500 --> 0:4:39.100
Nadeau, Jessica
Over the web, so welcome back to those of you attending for.
0:4:40.480 --> 0:4:42.600
Nadeau, Jessica
A time other than the 1st.
0:4:44.490 --> 0:4:58.610
Nadeau, Jessica
The department received comments that speak to defining similar municipalities based on level of service, so the department would like to propose some questions for clarification.
0:4:59.790 --> 0:5:12.460
Nadeau, Jessica
Are there other criteria other than those included in statute, population size and similar geographic location that should be considered when defining municipalities as similar?
0:5:13.630 --> 0:5:24.650
Nadeau, Jessica
And how could service levels be designated when including it as a criterion when defining similar municipalities?
0:5:36.910 --> 0:5:37.270
Nadeau, Jessica
Umm.
0:5:38.560 --> 0:5:53.860
Nadeau, Jessica
No one has any thoughts immediately on additional criteria. One of the things that was proposed that we hadn't thought about before and are interested in some feedback on is level of service and.
0:5:54.510 --> 0:6:1.660
Bertocci, Elena
You know, basically distinguishing between municipalities that are providing a curbside service and municipalities that are providing a Dropbox service.
0:6:3.170 --> 0:6:5.570
Bertocci, Elena
And I guess to make sure we are all.
0:6:6.500 --> 0:6:12.290
Bertocci, Elena
On the same page you know the similar municipalities is how municipalities would be grouped in order to then.
0:6:13.690 --> 0:6:31.120
Bertocci, Elena
Find those median reimbursement costs. So the idea would then be the curbside municipalities are grouped separately in addition to, you know, population, population density for perhaps would be would be grouped separately from drop off communities in terms of finding that median cost.
0:6:32.10 --> 0:6:32.900
Bertocci, Elena
And.
0:6:33.830 --> 0:6:39.50
Bertocci, Elena
So yeah, we were specifically hoping for any thoughts on that, whether that sounds like a good thing, bad thing.
0:6:53.940 --> 0:6:59.880
Bertocci, Elena
Nobody really. That's what this speak with. I would assume that's a good thing.
0:7:10.670 --> 0:7:25.460
Breton, Mary B
I don't know. I won't you. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. So I'll sound off the next one, and maybe we'll get some input on the first one. Some. Ohh. I'm Sarah Nichols from the Natural Resources Council of Maine. I think this is super tricky questions. Probably why everybody's quiet.
0:7:27.100 --> 0:7:27.630
Sarah Nichols
And I.
0:7:29.0 --> 0:7:41.190
Sarah Nichols
If two, there's two reasons for me that it's hard to wrap my head around what similar municipalities are, and I think one is because we don't have based good baseline data to kind of get that initial grouping. So this whole time I've kind of like.
0:7:42.480 --> 0:7:59.180
Sarah Nichols
Is this possible to do on the first year without that information all worked out? Or is it something that you kind of? Do you refine over time, you know, so kind of thinking about like doing it? How do we try to get it as close as possible for the beginning with the idea of refining it over time? And then the other thing is say with.
0:7:59.990 --> 0:8:2.120
Sarah Nichols
Geographies. Let's say there's a town that's.
0:8:2.800 --> 0:8:17.310
Sarah Nichols
Is really far transportation cost to get somewhere to bring their packaging materials somewhere and then they have a curbside or drop off. It's almost like we're gonna have. And then there's another town that has curbside, but it's closer. But like, how do you?
0:8:17.980 --> 0:8:23.400
Sarah Nichols
Like there's almost like different buckets where you're similar and then where you're not, so it's not like can you be grouped?
0:8:25.60 --> 0:8:36.790
Sarah Nichols
Can you be in a different group for transportation and a different group for level of service and do it that way? I don't right. You could potentially end up with way too many groups because you're yeah, there's too many groups, but maybe it's a still simpler way to.
0:8:38.540 --> 0:8:41.540
Sarah Nichols
I mean the spreadsheet can do that, but I don't know.
0:8:42.700 --> 0:8:44.190
Sarah Nichols
There's too many groups of bad thing.
0:8:46.650 --> 0:9:11.860
Sarah Nichols
In this similar municipalities is to be reassessed on an annual basis. So like you said, it could be presented that it's a little more broad, but then it's refined over time as more data comes back, in which case the rule would have to not define it, as you know, because the rule is not going to be changed to read or right. So that's, I guess another thing to think about. Somebody, yeah. So Glenn Williams is.
0:9:13.310 --> 0:9:19.720
Brian Beneski
Yeah. Has his hand up. So I'm going to make him right now. Click on you. Yeah, right. Right. Him. Click on the three dots.
0:9:22.700 --> 0:9:23.700
Brian Beneski
Dot yeah, right there.
0:9:24.910 --> 0:9:28.340
Brian Beneski
And we have to bear with me. I'm in training and do wake up from that.
0:9:36.540 --> 0:9:48.820
Glenn Williams
I'm just wondering if the chat can be turned on. I've got a link to a municipal groupings that's used in Ontario that I was gonna put in the chat, but the chats turned off so I can't put the link there.
0:9:51.990 --> 0:9:56.880
Elena Bertocci
Could you e-mail us that because we've the we have the chat turned off because it was found that it's?
0:9:58.790 --> 0:10:1.990
Elena Bertocci
It's difficult to pay attention to the conversation and the.
0:10:2.860 --> 0:10:6.30
Elena Bertocci
But if that's something you could provide us in an e-mail, that would be great.
0:10:5.870 --> 0:10:10.680
Glenn Williams
Yeah, I can. I would just hoping to put it in the chat so that everybody on the call could see it immediately.
0:10:16.330 --> 0:10:18.580
Glenn Williams
What I can do? I can send an e-mail just.
0:10:21.170 --> 0:10:23.340
Glenn Williams
Need to find the e-mail address to be honest.
0:10:23.870 --> 0:10:24.300
Elena Bertocci
OK.
0:10:26.80 --> 0:10:27.390
Jessica Nadeau
You ready? I have it.
0:10:28.450 --> 0:10:28.900
Glenn Williams
OK.
0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:30.460
Jessica Nadeau
OK, Maine.
0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:32.270
Jessica Nadeau
Packaging.
0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:34.770
Jessica Nadeau
EPR.
0:10:37.260 --> 0:10:38.250
Jessica Nadeau
At Maine.
0:10:39.40 --> 0:10:39.820
Jessica Nadeau
Dot Gov.
0:11:3.130 --> 0:11:6.340
Glenn Williams
OK, just sent it. See whether you received the link quickly.
0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:13.310
Elena Bertocci
All of us have our emails off right now, I'm afraid.
0:11:14.430 --> 0:11:18.700
Elena Bertocci
So well, but we'll put it on that. We'll put it up on the website for everybody to.
0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:22.390
Glenn Williams
OK.
0:11:20.20 --> 0:11:23.190
Elena Bertocci
To look at along with all the other comments.
0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:25.440
Glenn Williams
OK, that's fine.
0:11:33.310 --> 0:11:35.490
Elena Bertocci
Are you familiar with the contents of it or?
0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:38.460
Glenn Williams
Uh, yes, absolutely.
0:11:40.330 --> 0:11:41.420
Elena Bertocci
You want to give us a quick?
0:11:43.140 --> 0:11:43.460
Elena Bertocci
Right.
0:11:46.90 --> 0:11:47.360
Glenn Williams
Sure. Let me just.
0:11:48.780 --> 0:11:49.890
Glenn Williams
Open it up so.
0:11:48.680 --> 0:11:50.710
Elena Bertocci
You know, you don't have to be sorry. I don't mean to.
0:11:52.460 --> 0:12:22.380
Glenn Williams
OK, so basically there's nine groupings used in Ontario. They deal with population, population density, location being either in Southern Ontario, where Northern Ontario, as well as the type of service offer being a curbside program or a drop off program. And you can see in the 9, if you look at the document in the 9 categories, it defines, you know that a large urban area is more than 250,000 people, you know, medium urban is 50,000 to 250 etcetera, etcetera.
0:12:22.710 --> 0:12:28.680
Glenn Williams
And so this is the classification that Ontario has used in their data call for about the last 20 years.
0:12:31.330 --> 0:12:31.900
Elena Bertocci
Thank you.
0:12:33.70 --> 0:12:34.160
Elena Bertocci
So they do use them.
0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:37.210
Elena Bertocci
Their curbside versus drop off, yeah.
0:12:37.790 --> 0:12:38.550
Glenn Williams
Yeah, absolutely.
0:12:39.250 --> 0:12:40.280
Elena Bertocci
They haven't changed it.
0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:45.820
Elena Bertocci
Thank you. Very thank you.
0:12:48.270 --> 0:12:48.530
Glenn Williams
OK.
0:12:48.660 --> 0:12:48.870
Glenn Williams
Next.
0:13:2.970 --> 0:13:32.90
Jessica Nadeau
OK. So I'll go to the second discussion topic and discussion. Doesn't have to stick to this proposed discussion topic as long as we're talking on the basis of municipal reimbursements, feel welcome to chime in. OK. So the second discussion topic we received comments speaking to simplifying the reporting process for participating municipalities to quantify, remember.
0:13:32.740 --> 0:13:48.410
Jessica Nadeau
Reimbursable costs. So we just wanna ask how, how could we encourage participation in the stewardship program for packaging outside or in addition to simplifying reporting?
0:13:49.950 --> 0:13:59.400
Jessica Nadeau
And I guess we're we're talking more along the lines of, you know, is there anything that anybody?
0:14:0.290 --> 0:14:9.990
Jessica Nadeau
Is interested in being provided on behalf of the stewardship organization in terms of in, you know, encouraging participation or sustaining participation.
0:14:27.610 --> 0:14:32.90
Jessica Nadeau
And that's fine. We're just gonna go through our list, and Sarah Nichols from NRCM is gonna save us here.
0:14:33.500 --> 0:14:40.630
Sarah Nichols
Umm well, I paid that comment during last meeting, so I'm happy to elaborate so.
0:14:41.730 --> 0:14:48.720
Sarah Nichols
I think with some of our other stewardship programs, the stewardship organization is tasked with a certain recruitment rate and you know.
0:14:49.570 --> 0:15:10.460
Sarah Nichols
Trying to get a certain number of, you know, say the paint stewardship you have to get a certain number of people signed up to, you know. So I think that the storage organization could be given some goals over time to get recruitment and it might require them to have some more staff up front to consult with communities, help them start recycling programs that they're eligible for reimbursement.
0:15:11.730 --> 0:15:19.160
Sarah Nichols
And then I also think that we could really support existing municipal groups, so whether it's the MRC or eco main or?
0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:29.590
Sarah Nichols
Any of those existing groups that work with municipalities on their waste issues trying to get them to, you know, they could almost do a lot of the work for a lot of these smaller towns.
0:15:30.310 --> 0:15:30.720
Sarah Nichols
Umm.
0:15:31.700 --> 0:15:33.710
Sarah Nichols
If they were on board and they had extra help too.
0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:44.80
Sarah Nichols
We think that's the main barrier to municipalities, is the reporting. Umm, is that you know because?
0:15:45.610 --> 0:15:47.960
Sarah Nichols
You mentioned a few other things, but it doesn't seem to be a lot of.
0:15:48.650 --> 0:16:4.580
Elena Bertoccis
You know what? What do we think's gonna prevent? I guess the other way of saying this question. What do we aside from we understand that that we wanna keep the reporting simple in order to allow municipalities to participate. Are there other things that are gonna sort of prevent municipalities from participating? And are there ways that we could get around them?
0:16:8.270 --> 0:16:16.260
Jessica Nadeau
And I think there's quite a dependency when it comes to answering that question on what is defined as readily recyclable, which is the topic for.
0:16:20.190 --> 0:16:28.350
Jessica Nadeau
March meetings because that's the other requirement reporting and then collecting all that's designated readily recyclable.
0:16:29.210 --> 0:16:33.570
Jessica Nadeau
But in addition to that, are there any ideas?
0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:37.790
Jessica Nadeau
Or like hypothetical scenarios where.
0:16:38.530 --> 0:16:41.400
Jessica Nadeau
Yeah, participation could be prevented.
0:16:42.820 --> 0:16:48.850
Sarah Nichols
So there in terms of your recruitment goals on, you know for the stewardship organization.
0:16:50.690 --> 0:16:53.980
Sarah Nichols
They would obviously have to be. I think they would have to be.
0:16:55.80 --> 0:17:2.390
Sarah Nichols
Non binding because the mean pure spellings don't have to, but there could be like you know do you. Are you imagining like?
0:17:8.240 --> 0:17:11.680
Sarah Nichols
Looking for a certain number of good, not binding goes to put in a rule.
0:17:12.590 --> 0:17:15.240
Sarah Nichols
Well, it's not my goals exist.
0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:20.430
Sarah Nichols
Uh, like our recycling for the past, like 89?
0:17:20.630 --> 0:17:21.120
Sarah Nichols
Then.
0:17:22.430 --> 0:17:27.50
Sarah Nichols
Somebody statue statue and no one's ever reached it. It's fine. Fine, but.
0:17:28.300 --> 0:17:34.230
Sarah Nichols
There's penalties, right? There's no penalties for not reaching, no, but there's no there's penalties in the stewardship.
0:17:36.620 --> 0:17:47.830
Sarah Nichols
For recruitment, but the municipalities get to get to choose to participate, so why would they not participate? Because the reporting is such or because yeah, or because they.
0:17:49.640 --> 0:17:51.420
Elena Bertocci
Well, that's one thing we have heard.
0:17:52.770 --> 0:17:55.320
Vanessa Berry
And I think one conversation we brought up.
0:17:55.810 --> 0:17:58.40
Vanessa Berry
And an earlier meeting is.
0:17:59.260 --> 0:18:26.280
Vanessa Berry
Being able to access some of that infrastructure money to do the initial investment to get a recycling program going 'cause that might inhibit municipalities from beginning our recycling program. It's not having the funds to, you know, get the additional compactor or whatever they might need to even get this program operational. So I'm wondering if maybe that would be a barrier to entry for some municipalities that would prevent them from participating in EPR.
0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:29.250
Vanessa Berry
And being eligible for reimbursement.
0:18:31.570 --> 0:18:34.180
Elena Bertocci	
Yes, I don't think there's any requirement that.
0:18:35.430 --> 0:18:46.440
Elena Bertocci	
That money go to participating disparities. It could go to principalities that are not yet participating, potentially so if that's something that's made available to those municipalities, that might help get the ball rolling.
0:18:49.750 --> 0:18:52.590
Elena Bertocci	
You know, in tandem with waste diversion grants potentially too.
0:18:55.100 --> 0:19:7.510
Sarah Nichols
Right. And then maybe just have you well you could do is you wouldn't put a by, you wouldn't have put a non binding golden statue could put part of our RFP to the stewardship organization could say something like.
0:19:8.110 --> 0:19:8.830
Sarah Nichols
And.
0:19:9.670 --> 0:19:10.600
Sarah Nichols
I don't know if it's.
0:19:12.180 --> 0:19:17.520
Sarah Nichols
We could be asking for an outreach and education budget or or staffing or something like imagine.
0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:25.60
Sarah Nichols
Instead of goals, perhaps even overtime, you'll be less at everybody's participating.
0:19:26.30 --> 0:19:26.470
Sarah Nichols
Forever.
0:19:44.940 --> 0:19:50.70
Sarah Nichols
Any thoughts on what you said about supporting me to, you know, existing groups that help municipalities?
0:19:54.430 --> 0:19:54.900
Sarah Nichols
Like a.
0:19:55.710 --> 0:20:5.850
Sarah Nichols
Logistics of how we like size respond versions with it seems like all ecomaine towns you know, for instance they should. I wouldn't. I can't think of a good reason why.
0:20:6.790 --> 0:20:8.270
Sarah Nichols
He would not participating.
0:20:9.840 --> 0:20:13.310
Sarah Nichols
But that the like ecomaine like just taking them.
0:20:14.780 --> 0:20:18.970
Sarah Nichols
You could play a role in that, I just don't know through the rulemaking how would work.
0:20:27.990 --> 0:20:28.380
Sarah Nichols
Ohh.
0:20:29.440 --> 0:20:30.130
Sarah Nichols
I want to, yeah.
0:20:32.790 --> 0:20:37.730
Brian Beneski
We have a Len Levitt has her hand up, so I'm gonna make you a presenter.
0:20:46.990 --> 0:20:47.620
Brian Beneski
Trying to pass.
0:20:49.120 --> 0:20:49.770
Brian Beneski
Sometimes.
0:20:53.810 --> 0:20:54.180
Lynn Leavitt
There we go.
0:20:55.440 --> 0:21:6.270
Lynn Leavitt
I don't know how you get around this in the rules, and I don't know if it's as much of a bearer as it feels like, but like a lot of towns right now are just feeling really frustrated, generally with the recycling.
0:21:7.990 --> 0:21:21.890
Lynn Leavitt
Everyone's dealing with contamination rates that are, you know, through the roof. Everyone's dealing with costs that, you know, we're used to not paying for recycling. And now we're paying more than we are for trash. And I feel like.
0:21:23.950 --> 0:21:34.870
Lynn Leavitt
I feel like there are gonna be some folks who are just like, I'm just not dealing. I'm just not dealing with this because this is a mess right now and I don't know how you get around that. But I do feel like it's kind of something that's in the air some degree.
0:21:38.260 --> 0:21:38.650
Lynn Leavitt
It's been.
0:21:41.860 --> 0:21:45.480
Brian Beneski
And I have sent a letter hand up too.
0:21:46.470 --> 0:21:46.910
Brian Beneski So.
0:21:49.160 --> 0:21:49.790
Brian Beneski
Three dots.
0:21:58.480 --> 0:22:1.810
Brian Beneski
I said no. So you have you there?
0:22:0.330 --> 0:22:31.120
Sydney Harris
Had classic hello. How's it going? Good to see you all. I'm here today for those of you who know me with my upstream hat on. So I'm representing upstream and we submitted comments about keeping reuse as a reimbursable expense. So I was gonna save this for later, but I feel like there's an interesting tie in here because if a municipality is, Lynn just indicated, maybe doesn't think that getting reimbursed for recycling expenses is quite enough.
0:22:42.50 --> 0:22:42.440
Lynn Leavitt
Yes.
0:22:31.740 --> 0:23:0.410
Sydney Harris
Why not sweeten the pot by having reimbursement for any investments that municipalities make into reuse systems and infrastructure that is much more exciting, frankly, to a lot of people right now and it also moves materials up the waste hierarchy which we know is one of the goals as the law states of the reimbursement structure. And I also think perhaps if I were a muni and I could get my investment into reuse expenses, reimburse then maybe while I'm here.
0:23:1.150 --> 0:23:7.20
Sydney Harris
I'll just file for my recycling stuff as well, so just a thought, but I'll be back later to talk more about reuse.
0:23:9.350 --> 0:23:9.900
Elena Bertocci
Thanks.
0:23:11.280 --> 0:23:13.570
Elena Bertocci
So when do you think it's a matter of like getting?
0:23:14.770 --> 0:23:15.300
Elena Bertocci
Would it?
0:23:17.170 --> 0:23:28.330
Elena Bertocci
Do you think some municipalities might just wait a couple years and then sort of see that other municipalities around them or getting money back and then start or?
0:23:29.140 --> 0:23:32.280
Lynn Leavitt
I think that there's some of that. And I also think that.
0:23:33.520 --> 0:23:38.130
Lynn Leavitt
I'm certainly adding myself when I say this, but I suspect other towns too.
0:23:38.870 --> 0:23:39.90
Lynn Leavitt
If.
0:23:40.20 --> 0:23:45.540
Lynn Leavitt
I it feels like we're doing a lot of the heavy lifting on this and you know.
0:23:46.340 --> 0:23:47.450
Lynn Leavitt
Processors aren't.
0:23:48.200 --> 0:24:9.350
Lynn Leavitt
Maybe putting in as much effort and investment into improving their sorting equipment and haulers maybe aren't doing their part for for supporting this. So I mean, everyone would love to get the money back, that's great. But I just, I feel like there's a level of burnout or through recycling right now that that a lot of people are experiencing.
0:24:10.280 --> 0:24:10.730
Jessica Nadeau
Umm.
0:24:20.880 --> 0:24:31.900
Jessica Nadeau
I know we had some comments speak to like bonus payments and one of the examples was like a more frequent reporting schedule. I'm wondering if.
0:24:32.810 --> 0:24:38.860
Jessica Nadeau
Would it be reasonable to consider more frequent like data offering?
0:24:40.530 --> 0:24:46.500
Jessica Nadeau
As like part of the bonus payment system.
0:24:53.930 --> 0:25:3.260
Jessica Nadeau
Or even, you know, I guess once who report or participate sooner than others. Maybe that's part of the the bonus payment system.
0:25:10.590 --> 0:25:10.840
Lynn Leavitt
That's.
0:25:12.820 --> 0:25:13.450
Sarah Nichols
You asking?
0:25:14.910 --> 0:25:23.590
Jessica Nadeau
No, and you generally I guess to everybody, yeah, Neil, it was your comment that was in mind when I was calling that. So that was my comment.
0:25:24.740 --> 0:25:25.270
Neal Cowles
Maybe that?
0:25:26.410 --> 0:25:32.440
Neal Cowles
Please don't post something sparked in me when Sarah was talking last week or a couple weeks ago.
0:25:33.460 --> 0:25:34.420
Neal Cowles
The idea is that.
0:25:36.540 --> 0:25:40.250
Neal Cowles
If you if we only collect data at an annual cycle.
0:25:41.280 --> 0:25:42.320
Neal Cowles
Missing a lot.
0:25:44.350 --> 0:25:48.70
Neal Cowles
The structure of organization to be able to make good decisions about where the best.
0:25:49.870 --> 0:25:51.40
Neal Cowles
It's something that's meant.
0:25:52.80 --> 0:25:52.590
Neal Cowles
So.
0:25:54.20 --> 0:25:54.630
Neal Cowles
I think that.
0:25:55.430 --> 0:25:58.0
Neal Cowles
The department could incentivize.
0:25:59.660 --> 0:26:1.710
Neal Cowles
Collecting more data and more frequently.
0:26:3.180 --> 0:26:8.780
Neal Cowles
Help us build the whole system, give us more information to make better decisions as a whole.
0:26:11.930 --> 0:26:17.510
Neal Cowles
And have it be optional to have additional data reporting, but provide some sort of incentive for doing so.
0:26:19.390 --> 0:26:37.480
Neal Cowles
And I understand initially, everybody seems stressed about. I'm not with this reporting maybe because they don't have a lot of automation or a way to do this and it's probably very manual process, but maybe think about in the future when we're able to invest in systems that will simplify this, maybe even automated.
0:26:39.630 --> 0:26:42.900
Neal Cowles
Use these reports at the push of a button hopefully.
0:26:44.630 --> 0:26:54.710
Neal Cowles
If we can, if we could get to that point, that would make entry into this this program fairly seamless, painless, we would get good adoption that way.
0:26:59.430 --> 0:27:1.530
Sarah Nichols 
Yeah, I'm gonna jump on to you. So I I was.
0:27:2.720 --> 0:27:14.650
Sarah Nichols
I'm doing my taxes or starting my taxes. I use TurboTax and I really like how it like kind of walks you through like what? All the questions I don't know. So having them really easy system like that to have people report with.
0:27:14.740 --> 0:27:22.320
Sarah Nichols
Yeah. And then even with taxes, you could do it all at once or the year after, or you could choose to pay you go. I don't know.
0:27:28.960 --> 0:27:30.410
Sarah Nichols
Instead of doing my taxes.
0:27:40.40 --> 0:27:43.690
Brian Beneski
So we move on to the next. Yes, OK, move on to the next.
0:27:44.760 --> 0:27:45.850
Brian Beneski	
Thank you. Wanna Sydney?
0:27:47.630 --> 0:27:56.520
Jessica Nadeau
So well, the next one is the last one. So we received some comments that speak to what cost should be reimbursed.
0:27:57.280 --> 0:28:3.270
Jessica Nadeau
Including recycling. Ohh, you do have one more. Hold on. Sorry, no problem.
0:28:6.920 --> 0:28:7.280
Brian Beneski	
But.
0:28:9.250 --> 0:28:11.460
Brian Beneski
Tony just held up his hand. I'm gonna.
0:28:21.550 --> 0:28:22.600
Tony Smith
Good afternoon.
0:28:24.90 --> 0:28:24.590
Brian Beneski
So.
0:28:26.720 --> 0:28:31.250
Tony Smith
Going back to the comment about folks being burned out about.
0:28:31.970 --> 0:28:36.980
Tony Smith
Recycling, not making money. Paying money. I'm in the same boat.
0:28:38.990 --> 0:28:49.80
Tony Smith
The data collection I just had a question it it's each municipality can choose whether or not they want to join in with this program.
0:28:50.740 --> 0:28:54.330
Tony Smith
I'm here on behalf of the Municipal Review Committee.
0:28:55.360 --> 0:28:58.890
Tony Smith
We have 115 members.
0:29:0.220 --> 0:29:0.690
Tony Smith
Umm.
0:29:2.740 --> 0:29:3.740
Tony Smith
And I'm wondering.
0:29:4.680 --> 0:29:7.940
Tony Smith
If the Members voted to have the MRC.
0:29:10.500 --> 0:29:21.970
Tony Smith
I'm not committing to this, I'm only one person, but this is just an idea to throw out and actually it could be the MRC with 115 members or solid waste district with five members.
0:29:23.610 --> 0:29:27.450
Tony Smith
Could, if the Members voted to have the district that.
0:29:28.910 --> 0:29:40.200
Tony Smith
Big Brother, that big entity work on their behalf, is it? Would that be allowed to take some of the weight it it doesn't take any of the weight off the.
0:29:41.100 --> 0:30:4.410
Tony Smith
Not getting paid for recyclables anymore, but some of the heavy lifting for the data collection. If if I'm gonna say we as if we were five Member District, could we work on behalf of the municipalities collecting the data, particularly if if they if all the if I were members all recycle you the one bin all in or recycle.
0:30:4.860 --> 0:30:5.330
Tony Smith
Asked.
0:30:6.850 --> 0:30:7.470
Tony Smith
Umm.
0:30:9.170 --> 0:30:9.900
Tony Smith
Commingled.
0:30:11.430 --> 0:30:17.290
Tony Smith
With with that be allowed and whatever. Remember have to join or could they still?
0:30:18.20 --> 0:30:29.470
Tony Smith
Could we represent a percentage of those Members, say 50 or 61, to work? Would that be possible? Maybe to help help some of these towns?
0:30:32.90 --> 0:30:38.440
Tony Smith
Feel encouraged about either restarting their recycling program or continuing the recycling program.
0:30:41.650 --> 0:30:43.210
Tony Smith
That we talked about this actually.
0:30:41.250 --> 0:30:43.480
Elena Bertocci
So we talked about this a little bit actually because.
0:30:44.870 --> 0:30:45.340
Tony Smith
I.
0:30:44.430 --> 0:30:47.270
Breton, Mary B
Mark Draper said some can you hear me?
0:30:47.900 --> 0:30:52.860
Tony Smith
Yeah, I was 15 minutes late getting on of swapped offices. Ohh last time.
0:30:55.640 --> 0:30:56.590
Tony Smith
Oh OK. Gotcha.
0:30:59.950 --> 0:31:0.270
Tony Smith
Yep.
0:30:50.810 --> 0:31:3.690
Elena Bertocci
No, no, no, I I mean, we talked about this. No, not not on the meetings we were talking about internally. Normally after Mark Draper sent a comment and he was describing the.
0:31:7.900 --> 0:31:8.350
Tony Smith
OK.
0:31:4.880 --> 0:31:8.400
Elena Bertocci
The system that AWS has and.
0:31:9.430 --> 0:31:15.670
Elena Bertocci
They're their way of being set up and I think that would work just fine as long as you know you just couldn't have.
0:31:21.150 --> 0:31:21.450
Tony Smith
Right.
0:31:16.940 --> 0:31:25.500
Elena Bertocci
A member town. You just couldn't have overlap, right? So if well, I guess in the case of in the case of a situation like Mark Drapers.
0:31:26.510 --> 0:31:27.940
Elena Bertocci
Or say a community.
0:31:28.650 --> 0:31:33.520
Elena Bertocci
Where I where I live, we have it's called cooperative transfer station, and there's three towns that have one.
0:31:49.260 --> 0:31:49.890
Tony Smith
Oh, OK.
0:31:34.680 --> 0:32:2.590
Elena Bertocci
That share one transportation and one transfer station and all of the costs associated with recycling are via that transportation. There's no outside costs, right? So that transfer station would be able to report on all costs for those municipalities and as long as the town of Thomaston wasn't trying to report an addition to the cooperative transfer station reporting those tons for Thomaston that would, that would work just fine. If you got a case like Marc.
0:32:6.480 --> 0:32:6.870
Tony Smith
Yep.
0:32:3.720 --> 0:32:7.800
Elena Bertocci
I mean, his abilities would have to be set like MRC doesn't have all the cost data.
0:32:8.500 --> 0:32:8.880
Elena Bertocci
So.
0:32:8.150 --> 0:32:9.640
Tony Smith
Right. See where you're going? Yes.
0:32:10.560 --> 0:32:10.910
Tony Smith
Yep.
0:32:10.210 --> 0:32:20.800
Elena Bertocci
Could could, you know, provide its data. I think one of the things we were talking about is, you know, could we try to facilitate places like ecomaine or MRC?
0:32:22.800 --> 0:32:23.710
Elena Bertocci
Others you know.
0:32:25.940 --> 0:32:27.60
Elena Bertocci
Helping you know.
0:32:27.980 --> 0:32:35.450
Elena Bertocci
Get that? All that processing done, they they could share with the municipalities, but they're not gonna. MRC's not gonna have, like, the transportation cost of the collection cost.
0:32:37.80 --> 0:32:47.810
Elena Bertocci
And I guess if a municipality just didn't want to bother and they wanted MRC to report it for him and just like not use those, just not report those transportation and collection costs that.
0:32:48.850 --> 0:32:50.150
Elena Bertocci
I suppose could work.
0:32:52.360 --> 0:32:56.90
Elena Bertocci
Although it would mess up the mess up the data, it makes mood mess up the data.
0:32:56.670 --> 0:33:3.820
Tony Smith
Well, if if if there was a way to keep the data organized because we want to help our Members as much as we can.
0:33:4.710 --> 0:33:9.440
Tony Smith
Uh to be success and EPR program to be successful as well.
0:33:10.920 --> 0:33:15.270
Tony Smith
So I think what I've gleaned is it needs more thought, a little more legwork.
0:33:18.470 --> 0:33:21.20
Elena Bertocci
Yeah, we'd want to be able to to.
0:33:25.520 --> 0:33:25.870
Tony Smith
Yep.
0:33:24.90 --> 0:33:27.20
Elena Bertocci
To capture those costs at the MRC doesn't realize itself.
0:33:27.520 --> 0:33:28.960
Tony Smith
Right. Thank you.
0:33:30.600 --> 0:33:33.960
Brian Beneski
And I just saw Shelby has her hand up, so I'm gonna.
0:33:35.700 --> 0:33:42.850
Elena Bertocci
Let's pretend wanna speak for Cassella when I just threw off that list. But I didn't mean to leave Casella out, necessarily.
0:33:55.480 --> 0:33:56.250
Elena Bertocci
I shall be.
0:34:4.340 --> 0:34:4.670
Brian Beneski
Ah.
0:34:3.130 --> 0:34:4.740
Shelby Wright
There we go. Can you hear me now?
0:34:5.930 --> 0:34:6.470
Elena Bertocci
Yes.
0:34:7.20 --> 0:34:36.530
Shelby Wright
Excellent. So you know Tony brings up an excellent point and so does Sarah and I think that you know we want to, when you're talking about barriers for entrance or participation in the program, I think what we don't want to do is create an unequal playing field for municipalities that happen to be members of, you know these consolidated groups or regional associations or or refuse disposal districts. I mean, there's a lot of communities out there that are just kind of on their own similarly. And so would there be a place?
0:34:37.180 --> 0:35:6.850
Shelby Wright
For the EPR law to allow municipalities outside of these organizations to similarly form a solid waste alliance to enable them to collaboratively engage with the PR program, help them with the data. Excuse me, you know, et cetera. I mean, these alliances could be treated the same way as refuge disposal districts or regional associations and lately be able to collaborate. I don't know, in the delivery of consumer education, completing the reporting, receiving.
0:35:6.960 --> 0:35:34.710
Shelby Wright
Reimbursements just the same as the refuse disposal district, so the reason it will associations would be able to do, but they would be forming their own alliance with each other to help create a more even playing field. We do this in in Vermont. Casella does this in Vermont and so it's a model that we've worked under before and just curious if that you know would be room for that kind of alliance in this.
0:35:34.790 --> 0:35:37.320
Shelby Wright
That formula as well.
0:35:44.840 --> 0:35:50.790
Elena Bertocci
You mean to sort of facilitate communication between a municipality and the stewardship organization?
0:35:51.310 --> 0:36:21.550
Shelby Wright
All right. I mean, you're we're talking a lot about, you know, Tony's talked about it, they talked about ecomaine. You know, being these, you know, regional disposal districts helping you know to with reporting requirements, helping with education and outreach, helping their municipalities, you know, come into the EPR program to kind of streamline that. I mean, I think the last thing we want to see this program be fair and equitable to all communities in Maine and those that are outside of those regional organizations might not have access to that kind of additional, you know, administrative support.
0:36:21.680 --> 0:36:51.890
Shelby Wright
And so just curious to see if there would be a place in the EPR rules that could allow municipalities that sit outside of there's established disposal districts or regional organizations like AWS to participate in their own alliance so that they could also receive help, you know, together and combine their resources to also have the same advantages that the communities may have that are already members of a disposal district.
0:36:52.10 --> 0:36:59.130
Shelby Wright
Or a municipal, you know, overarching municipal organization such as ecomaine, Quasi municipal or the MRC.
0:37:3.840 --> 0:37:9.530
Elena Bertocci
I think it'd be anything to prevent that. You know the thing that's actually says is, you know the you have to be a municipality.
0:37:10.480 --> 0:37:12.850
Elena Bertocci
That defines municipality, but that's sort of for.
0:37:13.660 --> 0:37:19.810
Elena Bertocci
Payment purposes, right? So for group together for data purposes there are. Yeah, yeah.
0:37:22.30 --> 0:37:27.230
Jessica Nadeau
So here's a hypothetical let's say some. Let's say some municipalities come together.
0:37:25.860 --> 0:37:27.630
Jessica Nadeau
Of municipality come together.
0:37:28.430 --> 0:37:42.470
Jessica Nadeau
Form a solid waste alliance and one municipality collects one of the readily recyclables the other municipality collects another, and then the third collects all the remaining readily recyclables.
0:37:43.160 --> 0:37:46.0
Jessica Nadeau
With that work as qualifying.
0:37:48.0 --> 0:37:54.260
Elena Bertocci
Each municipality has to collect all the readily recyclables, even as part of an alliance, yeah.
0:37:55.130 --> 0:37:57.650
Group
Yeah, right. For provide for.
0:37:58.430 --> 0:38:1.220
Elena Bertocci
But if they were allowed to go, I mean, but if they.
0:38:2.340 --> 0:38:14.760
Elena Bertocci
Yeah, that wouldn't be. It wouldn't give very much recycling probably at the end of the day, if you did that most accessible system. Yeah. Yeah. I think the idea of grouping, you know, municipalities, they could.
0:38:15.440 --> 0:38:16.720
Elena Bertocci
Still report.
0:38:17.480 --> 0:38:21.790
Elena Bertocci
As an municipality, but the but the organization would help.
0:38:22.440 --> 0:38:23.10
Elena Bertocci
Them.
0:38:24.150 --> 0:38:27.40
Elena Bertocci
Do their reporting as opposed to the.
0:38:27.770 --> 0:38:34.910
Elena Bertocci
As opposed to the group, you can do it two ways. You could put together the groups with the group they report as a group, or you could have it so that the group.
0:38:36.150 --> 0:38:41.740
Elena Bertocci
Helps each of them and each of their member municipalities do their reporting so they get reimbursed.
0:38:42.850 --> 0:38:43.620
Elena Bertocci
I hope our report.
0:38:42.850 --> 0:38:52.670
Shelby Wright
Right. I mean, I think I think a lot of this is still, you know and obviously very hypothetical as you said, because until the the entry level you know.
0:39:9.930 --> 0:39:10.470
Elena Bertocci
Yeah.
0:38:53.440 --> 0:39:11.650
Shelby Wright
Uh, standards are established until we have baseline requirements established by what is readily recyclable and what you know is the reporting requirement. I think you know, we were talking a lot about barriers to municipalities. And so I was just throwing this out there as a potential other one that we might want to think about as we go for the rulemaking process.
0:39:15.750 --> 0:39:15.940
Shelby Wright
But.
0:39:17.860 --> 0:39:18.210
Shelby Wright
Umm.
0:39:12.0 --> 0:39:18.750
Elena Bertocci
Yeah. And even if it's not reporting, it could be help with like like when you said the education and outreach and stuff like that where?
0:39:20.670 --> 0:39:22.240
Elena Bertocci
Or even like applying for.
0:39:23.350 --> 0:39:24.750
Elena Bertocci
Like if there were.
0:39:25.250 --> 0:39:26.50
Shelby Wright
The grants.
0:39:25.580 --> 0:39:35.870
Elena Bertocci
I don't know. You haven't decided how the investment in education infrastructure is gonna work yet, but right? Yeah. But like, applying, applying for that as groups and stuff. Yeah. So I'm gonna.
0:39:35.410 --> 0:39:42.720
Shelby Wright
Yeah, I mean, I know the intent of the law is to make it fair and equitable across the board, and I just wanna make sure that we're considering that in every aspect of it.
0:39:44.470 --> 0:39:50.870
Brian Beneski
I'm going to Tony has his hand up again and then after Tony, I'll we'll have Thomas Clark speak.
0:39:50.770 --> 0:39:51.240
Tony Smith
Speak.
0:39:52.390 --> 0:39:52.920
Shelby Wright
Thank you.
0:39:52.120 --> 0:40:4.550
Tony Smith
Thank you. Thank you. Is the steward the SO responsible to develop the software to collect the data? Is the there. There's been a lot of talk last meeting this meeting about data collection.
0:40:5.870 --> 0:40:8.840
Tony Smith
Will the SO put together software?
0:40:9.940 --> 0:40:12.350
Tony Smith
For their own use and then.
0:40:13.440 --> 0:40:19.130
Tony Smith
Distribute or share that software with the municipalities that that join the program.
0:40:20.700 --> 0:40:25.920
Tony Smith
So that when the data is sent to the SO, it it's in their format.
0:40:27.260 --> 0:40:34.430
Tony Smith
That that would be for an organization size, maybe Casella, in the MRC, that that would work, that would work well.
0:40:36.260 --> 0:40:41.780
Tony Smith
Might be labor intensive at the start and will take some time to get the bugs ironed out of the things for sure.
0:40:42.930 --> 0:40:43.250
Tony Smith
But.
0:40:43.930 --> 0:40:54.510
Tony Smith
And maybe we talked about this last meeting, but if we had 100 municipalities collecting data differently and trying to feed it into the SO, I can see that as a big problem.
0:40:57.230 --> 0:41:6.400
Elena Bertocci
I have a question for you, Tony. So as a as an individual municipality, do you think it would be easier to support via software or via paper?
0:41:9.700 --> 0:41:11.70
Elena Bertocci
Or should there be an option?
0:41:13.270 --> 0:41:32.970
Tony Smith
There will be some that will definitely want to do it by hand and do it in paper. In my time here, I've seen handwritten information that has to go to main Emergency Management that has progressed from doing it by hand every year into software and.
0:41:40.900 --> 0:41:41.510
Elena Bertocci
Mm-hmm.
0:41:46.930 --> 0:41:47.230
Elena Bertocci
Right.
0:41:33.650 --> 0:41:47.500
Tony Smith
I don't know how well that was accepted, but it's  once you're up to speed on it, it makes reporting a heck of a lot easier. You can import last years into this year's and make any tweaks that need to be tweaked and send it off.
0:41:48.900 --> 0:41:52.260
Tony Smith
But there may be the old guard that still wants to do it by hand.
0:41:54.600 --> 0:41:59.250
Tony Smith
But I think the majority of municipalities I'm guessing would would wanna do it.
0:42:0.10 --> 0:42:0.820
Tony Smith
Electronically.
0:42:5.110 --> 0:42:6.200
Brian Beneski	
Unless Clark, I'm gonna.
0:42:7.180 --> 0:42:7.940
Brian Beneski
Your present.
0:42:5.620 --> 0:42:8.420
Shelby Wright
I mean, this is another place. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt, Tony.
0:42:9.480 --> 0:42:11.120
Tony Smith
I'm also all set. Thanks.
0:42:11.350 --> 0:42:12.760
Brian Beneski
OK, I'm gonna make.
0:42:11.710 --> 0:42:32.790
Shelby Wright
Ohh sorry, I just wanted to say this is another place where you're talking about, you know, equal access as well. And then and another way that you know the alliances or the grouping of municipalities could help out and reporting whereas some of the municipalities don't have the most advanced reporting equipment still they still are only in the office a couple of days a week etcetera.
0:42:37.330 --> 0:42:37.600
Shelby Wright
And.
0:42:35.330 --> 0:42:38.360
Brian Beneski
OK, Thomas, yes, you have before.
0:42:41.20 --> 0:42:41.770
Brian Beneski
Hope you on you.
0:42:48.810 --> 0:42:49.170
Clark, Thomas
Thank you.
0:42:49.960 --> 0:43:1.360
Clark, Thomas
I'm with the AdvanSix. We supply nylon into the packaging industry. I I noticed in the law for Maine the focus is really on post-consumer recycled content.
0:43:2.670 --> 0:43:11.750
Clark, Thomas
And seems to exclude post-industrial recycled. So just wanted to highlight a little bit about that and kind of get some understanding on that.
0:43:13.510 --> 0:43:31.400
Clark, Thomas
Both post and pre consumer recycled content is included as recycled content under the FTC in international standards and in fact post-industrial makes up the majority of recycled content in the US currently.
0:43:32.910 --> 0:43:47.470
Clark, Thomas
You know, there is a lack of clean, consistent recycled content resin out there. So the supply is not expected to be able to meet demand in the next several years to come and maybe a couple decades.
0:43:49.590 --> 0:43:57.30
Clark, Thomas
You know, using this PIR allows a higher recycled content because it is a clean, consistent source of material.
0:43:58.530 --> 0:44:4.10
Clark, Thomas
Average you to, you know, allowing to increase the average amount of recycled content in packaging.
0:44:4.880 --> 0:44:22.920
Clark, Thomas
And it does reduce landfill and likely to prove the carbon footprint. So I'm trying to understand the reasoning why the focus is on PCR and seems to at least the lower level have a post-industrial recycle.
0:44:28.80 --> 0:44:29.650
Elena Bertocci
So the legislature defines.
0:44:30.470 --> 0:44:34.880
Elena Bertocci
Defines the fact that the law calls out PCR. I think you're talking about.
0:44:35.210 --> 0:44:35.370
Clark, Thomas
But.
0:44:37.100 --> 0:44:42.710
Elena Bertocci
In the statute, perhaps. Is that where this is? Or in the in the producer payments that?
0:44:43.890 --> 0:44:44.150
Clark, Thomas
It.
0:44:43.370 --> 0:44:48.940
Elena Bertocci
That recycled content should be, you know, given.
0:44:49.930 --> 0:44:52.340
Elena Bertocci
Beneficial treatment is that what you're talking about?
0:44:57.130 --> 0:44:58.890
Elena Bertocci
Yeah. Post-industrial recycled content.
0:44:52.680 --> 0:45:8.370
Clark, Thomas
Yeah, it seems to be noted in there a few times. I don't know that it's specifically excluded. So I was wondering if the guidance that's gonna be written would look beyond that to help meet the golds, the recycled content goals?
0:45:9.830 --> 0:45:11.600
Elena Bertocci
I'm afraid we don't get to look beyond.
0:45:12.920 --> 0:45:16.270
Elena Bertocci
We don't have that authority. That would be something that the legislature would have to do.
0:45:17.160 --> 0:45:20.730
Elena Bertocci
I mean, we could add additional I suppose there are you know there are.
0:45:21.700 --> 0:45:23.270
Elena Bertocci
There's probably room too.
0:45:25.550 --> 0:45:25.850
Clark, Thomas
Yeah.
0:45:25.280 --> 0:45:26.810
Elena Bertocci
Add.
0:45:27.550 --> 0:45:28.110
Elena Bertocci
Umm.
0:45:29.930 --> 0:45:32.440
Elena Bertocci
Sort of a beneficial treatment for.
0:45:33.540 --> 0:45:37.620
Elena Bertocci
Any recycled content that included the industrial and addition to the PCR.
0:45:39.180 --> 0:45:44.630
Elena Bertocci
Yeah. So there we could, we could add additional sort of categories that would.
0:45:44.80 --> 0:45:57.200
Clark, Thomas
Yeah, I think the goals if the goal is to reduce landfill, to improve the carbon footprint, that could be an additional source. So it does seem like reasonable that you'd want to at least consider the benefits of that.
0:45:58.140 --> 0:45:58.680
Elena Bertocci
Mm-hmm.
0:45:58.10 --> 0:46:1.510
Clark, Thomas
And as I said, is the majority of material is being recycled right now.
0:46:3.660 --> 0:46:4.50
Clark, Thomas
Thank you.
0:46:3.160 --> 0:46:4.250
Elena Bertocci
That even going to land.
0:46:5.340 --> 0:46:17.570
Elena Bertocci
Is there any would any of your stuff go to landfill though, isn't it? So my understanding of post-industrial is oftentimes it's just like spits out the end of the machine here and you drive it over to the front of the machine and you stick it back in.
0:46:23.70 --> 0:46:23.540
Elena Bertocci
OK.
0:46:18.130 --> 0:46:35.560
Clark, Thomas
So according to international standards, that would be scrap or rework post-industrial as a separate, it's refined and reproduced or reprocessed it under a different system so you know it's a kind of a fuzzy line between PCR and PIR.
0:46:36.940 --> 0:46:52.370
Clark, Thomas
So it you know really it's instead of focusing on intermediate goals, it's about focusing on what the true end goals are, which again some people are focused maybe more on litter, others on landfill and what the shift seems to be going towards climate change and.
0:46:53.40 --> 0:46:55.730
Clark, Thomas
Trying to get a smaller carbon footprint for the package.
0:46:57.130 --> 0:47:5.360
Elena Bertocci
So just to make sure I understand, so the post-industrial you're talking about, so it's like it's come out of the machine, it's not just scrap, it's gone to another location.
0:47:13.510 --> 0:47:13.990
Clark, Thomas
Right. But.
0:47:6.50 --> 0:47:15.160
Elena Bertocci
And so then it's not quite so easy to just run it back through the machine, and it could potentially get landfilled. Does it ever get disposed?
0:47:16.230 --> 0:47:25.360
Clark, Thomas
Yeah. So you know, there's always an economic driver on that just as it is there is with PCR. So when the environmental and the economic.
0:47:26.540 --> 0:47:30.710
Clark, Thomas
Benefits line up, then it's something that would be produced as PIR.
0:47:32.30 --> 0:47:34.20
Elena Bertocci
Perfect. Thank you.
0:47:34.240 --> 0:47:34.660
Clark, Thomas
Thank you.
0:47:36.890 --> 0:47:39.140
Brian Beneski
Tony, do you have your hand back up again?
0:47:41.520 --> 0:47:42.830
Brian Beneski
Is that from holdover?
0:47:45.730 --> 0:47:47.240
Brian Beneski
OK, great.
0:47:41.850 --> 0:47:59.460
Tony Smith
Because I'm from. No, no, I I'm remembering to take it off in between times for this meeting. Going back to the in Shelby mentioned it a bit about the non tech savvy towns that might want to do it. Do the data collection by hand.
0:48:0.480 --> 0:48:18.170
Tony Smith
No, we at the MRC, the mantra is worked with our members and we would work with those Members who wanted to be brought into the century as a slam that shouldn’t be signed. That was me a few years ago.
0:48:20.490 --> 0:48:20.880
Tony Smith
But.
0:48:21.940 --> 0:48:29.30
Tony Smith
We would work with anyone that that did wanna make the transition from doing the data collection by hand into electronically.
0:48:30.60 --> 0:48:31.930
Tony Smith
Who would do what we could to help them?
0:48:32.980 --> 0:48:35.520
Tony Smith
If they, if they were willing to accept some help.
0:48:40.870 --> 0:48:41.30
Tony Smith
No.
0:48:36.860 --> 0:48:42.200
Elena Bertocci
Do you have any ideas on what that training or help might look like?
0:48:42.820 --> 0:48:45.980
Tony Smith
I think we'd have to see the software first.
0:48:47.270 --> 0:49:2.620
Tony Smith
And then and then build the training around that and it may go as bad far back as keeping your recyclables clean, weighing them properly, no guesstimating. If you have mixed loads, how do you divvy it up per town?
0:49:3.610 --> 0:49:11.560
Tony Smith
Uh, things of that nature and then move from the hand, collected and reported to the to the electronic.
0:49:13.480 --> 0:49:19.690
Tony Smith
It would depend on on the type of recycling program the municipality you might have as well.
0:49:24.570 --> 0:49:27.310
Elena Bertocci
But if there were going to be, say, an A.
0:49:34.30 --> 0:49:34.460
Tony Smith
Right.
0:49:29.430 --> 0:49:35.460
Elena Bertocci
I assume you wouldn't want to train people on software via zoom, probably, right? You'd wanna be in person.
0:49:35.810 --> 0:49:36.760
Tony Smith
It?
0:49:37.920 --> 0:49:38.850
Tony Smith
It might.
0:49:40.40 --> 0:49:41.310
Tony Smith
I wouldn't rule it out.
0:49:41.950 --> 0:49:42.520
Elena Bertocci
OK.
0:49:42.140 --> 0:50:13.590
Tony Smith
We've had, we've had training on software by zoom before and I agree what I need to do, like when I'm learning something like this new, I need to be given the basics to get in, mess it up, call for help, get straightened out, get the basics, get in, get held up and work my way through it. But it could be a combination of traveling to a town or a number of towns with representatives there for the for the live training versus.
0:50:13.650 --> 0:50:14.440
Tony Smith
Versus zoom.
0:50:17.380 --> 0:50:17.870
Elena Bertocci
Thanks.
0:50:18.710 --> 0:50:19.310
Tony Smith
You're welcome.
0:50:19.930 --> 0:50:20.510
Elena Bertocci
Nope.
0:50:20.30 --> 0:50:20.520
Tony Smith
Thank you.
0:50:23.120 --> 0:50:24.610
Brian Beneski
Shelby got your hand up so.
0:50:25.870 --> 0:50:26.660
Brian Beneski
Right, Ed.
0:50:48.480 --> 0:50:48.860
Brian Beneski
Yeah.
0:50:50.390 --> 0:50:50.780
Brian Beneski
Umm.
0:50:30.520 --> 0:50:57.810
Shelby Wright
Yeah. So I mean, I would imagine you may consider putting into the RFP for the SO, you know a training requirement or some sort of thing that says, you know, ohh you decided to opt into the EPR program, pack it and you know kind of like a users guide, if you will, to EPR that includes all the things that Tony's talking about as well as you know opportunities for in person and remote you know.
0:50:57.910 --> 0:51:9.960
Shelby Wright
Virtual training for all the municipalities, because I would assume that that would be a good precursor to prevent a lot of initial confusion when the program is rolled out.
0:51:15.580 --> 0:51:21.370
Elena Bertocci
So that actually reminds me of the next point that we were looking before we get to that other one.
0:51:22.690 --> 0:51:30.730
Elena Bertocci
That was so, so part of the law requires that we set up a process for municipal reimbursements. And so, like, a process obviously includes.
0:51:31.930 --> 0:51:37.200
Elena Bertocci
I imagine it includes something like you said Shelby A. Yes, I'm in. I wanna participate.
0:51:38.820 --> 0:51:39.390
Elena Bertocci
Here I am.
0:51:39.470 --> 0:51:48.640
Elena Bertocci
And I'm reporting here I am getting my reimbursement. What else should it include? Is a question that we have.
0:51:49.950 --> 0:51:54.440
Elena Bertocci
You know, where are there good spots for that training are there?
0:51:57.300 --> 0:51:59.190
Elena Bertocci
Is that where I believe?
0:52:0.370 --> 0:52:2.260
Elena Bertocci
Robert Butler was talking about it.
0:52:3.400 --> 0:52:14.410
Elena Bertocci
Sorry about municipal opt in or letter of intent or something you know, is that where that would come into play? Is that sort of what he was? I don't know if he's on today. I don't know if that's what he was thinking.
0:52:16.40 --> 0:52:18.360
Elena Bertocci
By any thoughts on what that process should look like?
0:52:19.70 --> 0:52:22.90
Elena Bertocci
So what might want to be part of a?
0:52:23.40 --> 0:52:28.830
Elena Bertocci
You know, every year we do this, we decide we're going to participate, we tell the so we do, you know.
0:52:38.570 --> 0:53:4.0
Shelby Wright
Well, seeing as it's a new program, I mean I imagine that you'd wanna have a, a, I don't know if you're gonna do it on a rolling basis, if there's gonna be a deadline, you know, to opt in and then, you know, regional trainings, perhaps set up around, you know, like you would do your listening tours or your, you know, your stakeholders meetings before zoom when they used to be, you know, when the six points around the state.
0:53:4.890 --> 0:53:7.570
Shelby Wright
Bring municipalities in the right people.
0:53:8.480 --> 0:53:38.880
Shelby Wright
Yeah, that's important to figure out who in the municipality is gonna be monitoring the program. So that would be an important question to know. But again, I think a lot of the what it would have to entail is going to depend on the ultimate, you know, decisions that are made by the rules and the stakeholders meetings of what the program actually fundamentally becomes, what the readily recyclable list, you know, how do you up in what do you need to opt in and then what do you do need to do next once you've determined that you.
0:53:38.960 --> 0:53:40.290
Shelby Wright
Here municipality is eligible.
0:53:45.960 --> 0:53:46.610
Elena Bertocci
OK.
0:53:48.560 --> 0:53:49.890
Brian Beneski
Tony wanna pop in?
0:53:49.720 --> 0:53:51.350
Tony Smith
Pop in. Sure. Thank you.
0:53:52.550 --> 0:53:59.180
Tony Smith
Will the municipalities will the will there be a term? Do they opt in for a year or two years or three years?
0:54:0.70 --> 0:54:1.150
Tony Smith
Along those lines.
0:54:2.0 --> 0:54:2.680
Tony Smith
And.
0:54:2.120 --> 0:54:2.890
Elena Bertocci
What do you think?
0:54:3.30 --> 0:54:3.250
Elena Bertocci
No.
0:54:2.760 --> 0:54:3.250
Tony Smith
OK.
0:54:7.460 --> 0:54:7.970
Elena Bertocci
You're in for.
0:54:5.650 --> 0:54:9.660
Tony Smith
Thank you. I think you guys are really good with your questions.
0:54:12.50 --> 0:54:12.440
Elena Bertocci
Membership.
0:54:14.350 --> 0:54:20.200
Tony Smith
I would look at it two years within with a fairly easy opt out.
0:54:21.50 --> 0:54:24.680
Tony Smith
Not. Not just. Hey, I'm done. I'd have to give that some more thought.
0:54:26.60 --> 0:54:30.270
Tony Smith
If it's a opt in on a yearly basis, that's going to be a lot of paper shuffling.
0:54:32.240 --> 0:54:33.930
Tony Smith
It's some of these towns might.
0:54:34.790 --> 0:54:36.300
Tony Smith
Want to go to town meeting?
0:54:37.270 --> 0:54:42.110
Tony Smith
To get authorization to opt in so that that would be a consideration for the SO.
0:54:43.440 --> 0:54:49.910
Tony Smith
And then if they did go to have to go to town meeting, then I would suggest like a 3 year plan.
0:54:54.680 --> 0:55:1.210
Andy Hackman
From the floor with the opt in, then have to. It would have to obligate you to collect the really recyclables for that period of time.
0:55:1.720 --> 0:55:2.270
Tony Smith
Yep.
0:55:1.930 --> 0:55:9.350
Andy Hackman
You could, you know, opt in and then stopped taking certain materials. One year end of the prep into the optin period.
0:55:10.550 --> 0:55:11.100
Shelby Wright
Correct.
0:55:15.70 --> 0:55:22.590
Elena Bertocci
But what if if you're getting reimbursement today on an annual basis, somebody opted in for two years and they got their first reimbursement, then they opted out.
0:55:26.0 --> 0:55:27.70
Tony Smith
Would have been a penalty.
0:55:34.460 --> 0:55:34.770
Tony Smith
Yeah.
0:55:46.320 --> 0:55:47.830
Tony Smith
Yep, Yep.
0:55:31.280 --> 0:55:47.890
Elena Bertocci
Be a penalty that they're going to pay for the second. They wouldn't get paid. Yeah, so they could almost just be like, we're opting in and then the next year, we just say we're as part of our reporting. We're almost just saying, like, we'll happen again. Here's a little check box right on the same record sheet that we already have.
0:55:48.930 --> 0:55:49.680
Elena Bertocci
Auto renewal.
0:55:52.130 --> 0:55:52.500
Elena Bertocci
Quite.
0:55:52.80 --> 0:55:53.470
Tony Smith
Much like a contract.
0:55:54.200 --> 0:55:54.600
Elena Bertocci
Right.
0:55:54.870 --> 0:55:56.570
Tony Smith
Maybe oversimplifying things.
0:55:57.400 --> 0:56:1.440
Neal Cowles
So I guess I don't understand the need for opting in, it seems like.
0:56:2.80 --> 0:56:3.900
Neal Cowles
Whatever the the period is.
0:56:4.580 --> 0:56:6.170
Neal Cowles
The the reporting frequency.
0:56:7.30 --> 0:56:13.960
Neal Cowles
If you satisfy the criteria and you report on it, you can be reimbursed for that period. If you don't, then.
0:56:15.490 --> 0:56:16.60
Neal Cowles
It's on you.
0:56:17.110 --> 0:56:18.640
Neal Cowles
I mean there would have to be some sort of.
0:56:19.420 --> 0:56:20.280
Neal Cowles
And distraction?
0:56:21.210 --> 0:56:22.30
Neal Cowles
And so like it.
0:56:23.470 --> 0:56:34.110
Neal Cowles
And so I would need to know the municipality, but it's in the checks too. Like all of that stuff that has to be set up initially. But after that, it seems like could participate or you could not.
0:56:35.940 --> 0:56:36.150
Tony Smith
But.
0:56:36.690 --> 0:56:39.210
Neal Cowles
Yeah, maybe we could present with the.
0:56:40.940 --> 0:56:43.50
Neal Cowles
Like another process adding on to it.
0:56:43.930 --> 0:56:46.320
Neal Cowles
Dropping in, just rocking out like this stuff, but.
0:56:48.190 --> 0:56:52.80
Jessica Nadeau
I too was thinking submittal of a report meant I'm in.
0:56:53.200 --> 0:57:21.800
Elena Bertocci
Right. Well, it would. I think the benefit I think you're right. There's no reason to make it mandatory, but I think the benefit to doing it would be that you then you know get contacted by the SO about the trainings and whatever else like you know here we are. And if and if in order to get good data, it's looking like you're probably doing some amount of time studies. So is you know helping out with some time studies and making helping you report your.
0:57:22.170 --> 0:57:31.140
Elena Bertocci
The costs as a municipality and so you'd wanna get that in too, I would think, although that could be potentially tricky, particularly at the beginning.
0:57:35.420 --> 0:57:35.800
Sarah Nichols
So.
0:57:36.860 --> 0:57:45.630
Sarah Nichols
Which organization might wanna have an idea about the cost that they're about two week or two so that they could set their fees and everything else accordingly so they don't, they kind of have to have an idea.
0:57:46.420 --> 0:57:55.490
Sarah Nichols
About the number of municipalities they're gonna have to pay back that year. You know, I don't know, maybe some sort of intent or you know.
0:57:56.180 --> 0:58:1.30
Sarah Nichols
Like when you when you sign up, you have to opt out and, like, let them know so that there's not like.
0:58:1.650 --> 0:58:8.730
Sarah Nichols
So that it's kind of expected that you do anticipate so you can budget for that musicality participating unless they tell you otherwise?
0:58:11.910 --> 0:58:12.390
Tony Smith
Hello.
0:58:14.760 --> 0:58:15.390
Breton, Mary B
OK. Yeah.
0:58:21.80 --> 0:58:21.360
Tony Smith
Yeah.
0:58:18.770 --> 0:58:21.580
Sarah Nichols
Like feeling it's their budget. This is how much money we need to raise.
0:58:22.550 --> 0:58:25.210
Sarah Nichols
And then they can set their fees accordingly to match that budget.
0:58:26.540 --> 0:58:30.710
Sarah Nichols
Right. Is that Andy, is that how it works? Yeah, OK, that would be. But we also need.
0:58:31.730 --> 0:58:50.580
Andy Hackman
When the consequence raised earlier about raising improving infrastructure dollars, first you need to know the number of towns as well. Otherwise you can't set an annual budget without knowing both your infrastructure budget. That will come out of the needs assessment and the number of towns are going to be paying for and a rough idea of what the size of those towns are, you know.
0:58:51.740 --> 0:58:59.300
Andy Hackman
Actually probably need some sensitive there volume because I guarantee you as to which organizations you know, it's based in Illinois, it's not and the idea.
0:59:0.890 --> 0:59:1.500
Andy Hackman
Union Bank.
0:59:3.950 --> 0:59:6.220
Elena Bertocci
I don't even think the municipalities are gonna know really because.
0:59:7.430 --> 0:59:10.620
Elena Bertocci
What's coming out of that bale? Like you point you made, is not all packaging.
0:59:11.140 --> 0:59:16.720
Elena Bertocci
Umm, but I don't think that you have to set a a.
0:59:18.320 --> 0:59:19.380
Elena Bertocci
I mean, you can also.
0:59:20.170 --> 0:59:24.620
Elena Bertocci
Read this to say that well, it producer. You know if we know the the cost of managing.
0:59:25.340 --> 0:59:26.650
Elena Bertocci
A ton of.
0:59:29.340 --> 0:59:36.150
Elena Bertocci
A ton of boxboard gearbox packages then that's what you charge the producer.
0:59:36.950 --> 0:59:58.260
Elena Bertocci
And you're not trying to come up with a overall budget, you're just making sure you cover your cost. That ton of cereal boxes got put on, the producer paid for that ton of boxes into the system. Whether Municipality pulls that or not depends on whether they're recycled. And then then you got your infrastructure budget. What's your infrastructure administration comes?
0:59:58.970 --> 1:0:1.170
Elena Bertocci
In that, anything that the municipality is not polling.
1:0:2.960 --> 1:0:5.130
Andy Hackman
It's gonna be raised before it gets paid out, right?
1:0:6.850 --> 1:0:10.740
Andy Hackman
The time is going to be. I'm sorry, the money's gonna be raised from the producers before it gets paid out.
1:0:11.480 --> 1:0:12.200
Elena Bertocci
Well, I mean.
1:0:13.470 --> 1:0:14.180
Elena Bertocci
Say that.
1:0:15.260 --> 1:0:26.730
Elena Bertocci
In 2023, we were gonna have reimbursement for 2023 at the end of in 2024, producer could would be able to report on what they you know.
1:0:27.580 --> 1:0:36.810
Elena Bertocci
Produced and municipalities would be able to and pay in at the end, you know? So starting in 2024, paying in for what they produced in 2023.
1:0:37.660 --> 1:0:42.840
Elena Bertocci
And the municipality is able to report on what they did in 2023. So the money comes in. Then it goes out.
1:0:43.760 --> 1:0:45.470
Elena Bertocci
Use those, not what the payments based on.
1:0:46.290 --> 1:0:50.70
Andy Hackman
With the producer produces and it's what the cost is for municipalities, right?
1:0:51.180 --> 1:0:54.560
Andy Hackman
All functions, that's a cost reimbursement model versus a production model.
1:0:57.280 --> 1:0:57.980
Elena Bertocci
Uh.
1:0:59.160 --> 1:1:1.330
Elena Bertocci
I don't know that that's. I don't know.
1:1:2.330 --> 1:1:5.320
Elena Bertocci
I don't know if I'm on the same page with you on that. I'm not.
1:1:8.380 --> 1:1:21.160
Sarah Nichols
Is this better? You know there's different fees for different materials used, so wouldn't we want the producers to know the fee schedule like ahead of time so they potentially make adjustments to their packages so they could save money on the fees.
1:1:22.470 --> 1:1:25.240
Elena Bertocci
Well, the the producer fees have to be based on.
1:1:25.970 --> 1:1:27.680
Elena Bertocci
The cost of managing the packaging.
1:1:30.440 --> 1:1:31.920
Sarah Nichols
Yeah, yeah, I think.
1:1:32.550 --> 1:1:34.210
Sarah Nichols
You get reimbursed on the cost.
1:1:38.520 --> 1:1:40.540
Sarah Nichols
Yeah, it is. There's a yeah.
1:1:43.230 --> 1:1:46.600
Brian Beneski
Mark Hudson has his hand up, so I'm gonna let him in.
1:1:55.680 --> 1:2:1.280
Elena Bertocci
Yeah. Producer makes payment based on the net amount of each type of packing, which packaging material sold.
1:2:3.850 --> 1:2:4.380
Brain Beneski
I'm mark.
1:2:5.410 --> 1:2:13.550
Mark Hudson
Yes. Good afternoon, Mark Hudson with the Ag Container Recycling Council. Not sure if this is the right place to interject, but.
1:2:14.810 --> 1:2:17.190
Mark Hudson
Relative to the process.
1:2:18.120 --> 1:2:45.410
Mark Hudson
Or reimbursements, one of the things that I've been curious about, and this is, at least in my version of the of the law, it's section 10, point A, where it describes how the stewardship organization shall determine the amount of payments to participating in municipalities. The question that I have relative to sort of the annual process or the process in general for determining payments.
1:2:46.460 --> 1:3:12.220
Mark Hudson
Is to what extent or how I don't see any reference in there to alternative collection programs and you'll probably not be surprised by my asking that question because I know in past meetings I've mentioned that the Ag chemicals industry we are potentially interested in being recognized or establishing an alternative collection program. And so for that reason, I'm just curious how alternative collection programs.
1:3:13.80 --> 1:3:18.630
Mark Hudson
Similar to the stewardship, organization will be a part of the process.
1:3:19.830 --> 1:3:25.300
Mark Hudson
Were involved with the determination of reimbursements to municipalities.
1:3:44.200 --> 1:3:44.550
Mark Hudson
Hello.
1:3:45.380 --> 1:3:52.220
Elena Bertocci
Yeah. So what do you think? Yeah. You thoughts on I, I do you have any suggestions on how you think an alternative collection program?
1:3:53.500 --> 1:3:56.850
Breton, Mary B
Uh could or should be involved in that process?
1:3:59.290 --> 1:4:29.80
Mark Hudson
Well, you know again my reason for asking is I have sort of assumed that an alternative collection program would be treated similarly to the stewardship organization in that they would be obligated to in some way help with reimbursements like the stewardship or I mean there's a whole list of at least five different things that I see mentioned in terms of how the payments.
1:4:29.250 --> 1:4:36.480
Mark Hudson
Are to be determined for the stewardship, organization. And so I have assumed that possibly those same.
1:4:37.120 --> 1:4:43.950
Mark Hudson
Uh bases would be used for determining how an alternative collection program would also be.
1:4:44.620 --> 1:4:47.110
Mark Hudson
Responsible for helping provide reimbursements.
1:4:48.490 --> 1:4:52.960
Mark Hudson
You know, one of the things that I I mentioned in a past meeting was.
1:4:54.90 --> 1:5:3.660
Mark Hudson
Relative to in our case, again being an agricultural-based industry where you know the vast majority of.
1:5:4.680 --> 1:5:10.370
Mark Hudson
Or activity and the associated packaging is in rural communities and not so much in.
1:5:10.930 --> 1:5:13.750
Mark Hudson
Umm, you know, in cities and towns.
1:5:15.40 --> 1:5:22.90
Mark Hudson
You know that that certainly that aspect is something that I'm very interested in as well as just making sure that there is.
1:5:24.630 --> 1:5:39.930
Mark Hudson
I guess equity around what would be expected for an alternative collection program that's very rural centric as opposed to you know where packaging is really not sold much in this municipality.
1:5:40.390 --> 1:5:42.800
Mark Hudson
municipalities, excuse me.
1:5:43.560 --> 1:6:0.350
Mark Hudson
It's specifically cities or towns, so anyway that was the, you know, the nature of of my question or concern. Again, the assumption that that those payments would be determined similar to the stewardship organization, but also an interest in.
1:6:1.790 --> 1:6:5.140
Mark Hudson
Sort of geographically in our case, how that would be determined?
1:6:7.930 --> 1:6:12.110
Elena Bertocci
Yeah, like, would you be expected to have collection side, but you would create?
1:6:14.790 --> 1:6:16.680
Elena Bertocci
You would you would have your.
1:6:17.570 --> 1:6:18.280
Elena Bertocci
Own.
1:6:19.130 --> 1:6:19.620
Elena Bertocci
Umm.
1:6:21.650 --> 1:6:27.40
Elena Bertocci
Agreements with the municipalities that you worked with, right? Compensating them for the service they provide to you.
1:6:28.620 --> 1:6:33.290
Mark Hudson
That would be my assumption. Yes. Uh. Because, you know, I think probably most folks would.
1:6:34.340 --> 1:6:49.210
Mark Hudson
Know the areas of Maine where you know the majority of agriculture takes place, and that's those would be probably the counties or you know, local communities that we would most likely be interacting with and would assume would have some kind of agreements in place.
1:6:50.950 --> 1:6:55.460
Mark Hudson
But I was particularly curious whether the.
1:6:56.290 --> 1:6:59.60
Mark Hudson
Uh. Absence. Unless I've overlooked it.
1:7:0.280 --> 1:7:0.940
Mark Hudson
Of.
1:7:2.230 --> 1:7:7.320
Mark Hudson
The alternative collection programs in this context of municipal reimbursements.
1:7:8.620 --> 1:7:16.450
Mark Hudson
Was intentional or is just going to or whether it was assumed that it would be treated like the stewardship organization?
1:7:23.880 --> 1:7:28.490
Elena Bertocci
I think it's fair to say overlooked. I mean it's not, it's not one of you know.
1:7:29.620 --> 1:7:33.290
Elena Bertocci
Umm, the things that specifically called out to be dealt with in Rule.
1:7:34.920 --> 1:7:39.310
Elena Bertocci
But the alternative collection programs.
1:7:44.330 --> 1:7:49.670
Elena Bertocci
First you would you would have your. I don't. I don't think that.
1:7:50.350 --> 1:7:54.860
Elena Bertocci
You would be your producers. What they had to pay in terms of.
1:7:55.630 --> 1:7:58.460
Elena Bertocci
To be reimbursed, and municipalities generally.
1:7:59.360 --> 1:8:0.330
Elena Bertocci
Would be.
1:8:2.690 --> 1:8:4.730
Elena Bertocci
So you're so, are you trying to ask if?
1:8:5.480 --> 1:8:5.970
Elena Bertocci
Like.
1:8:9.310 --> 1:8:11.500
Elena Bertocci
Portland would be reimbursed for.
1:8:13.320 --> 1:8:16.480
Elena Bertocci
By the container recycling people.
1:8:18.690 --> 1:8:19.30
Mark Hudson
Well.
1:8:18.360 --> 1:8:32.840
Brian Beneski
I guess I'm having trouble understanding, maybe I'm maybe I'm not the right person to. I don't. I'm not having. So basically you saying you'd have your alternate system that would be, you said similar to a stewardship and you would you would be dealing directly with.
1:8:34.110 --> 1:8:44.100
Brian Beneski
You know, you mean you'd have agreements with municipalities? Then the question would be then what would your, what's your mind your what would your obligation be in addition to running your system?
1:8:46.240 --> 1:8:51.930
Mark Hudson
I'll just step back and say more generally, my reason for raising the question.
1:8:52.590 --> 1:9:9.430
Mark Hudson
Was the fact that I didn't see alternative collection programs referenced under municipal reimbursements? And so if my assumption is that this process the stakeholder calls is intended to discuss or highlight?
1:9:9.780 --> 1:9:13.360
Mark Hudson
Are you know those kinds of observations and try to make sure that.
1:9:14.620 --> 1:9:31.350
Mark Hudson
Where necessary, they're incorporated. So that's why I'm raising the point is, if that is an oversight, then you know, given that there's a possibility in our case, we might be considered as an alternative collection program. We certainly would want to make sure that in advance.
1:9:38.500 --> 1:9:38.760
Brian Beneski
Yeah.
1:9:33.160 --> 1:9:39.140
Mark Hudson
Those kind of considerations are being written into the into the language and.
1:9:39.910 --> 1:9:53.380
Mark Hudson
Getting to the details of your question about Portland, it might be another level of detail that ultimately obviously we would be very interested in as well. But you know, trying to solve that on this call is probably not very productive for the rest of the group.
1:9:54.840 --> 1:9:57.440
Elena Bertocci
I do have one additional question though I think that.
1:9:58.460 --> 1:9:58.920
Elena Bertocci
So if.
1:10:0.740 --> 1:10:8.670
Elena Bertocci
If reimbursements are made based on you know how much of a material did a material type did a municipality recycle.
1:10:10.40 --> 1:10:12.610
Elena Bertocci
Umm do you think it makes sense for?
1:10:13.650 --> 1:10:14.80
Elena Bertocci
I.
1:10:15.80 --> 1:10:34.710
Elena Bertocci
Ag pesticide containers to be a material type separate from so say they're made of HDPE #2, right? Generally many of them because it makes sense for them to be part of a HDPE #2 material type. Or does it make sense for them to be a HDPE?
1:10:35.380 --> 1:10:41.370
Elena Bertocci
Uh, that has had, you know, a hazardous substance in it as a separate material type.
1:10:42.20 --> 1:10:42.900
Elena Bertocci
From your perspective.
1:10:45.410 --> 1:10:49.850
Mark Hudson
That's a good question. I mean, certain certainly one of the reasons why we are interested in.
1:10:50.480 --> 1:11:4.720
Mark Hudson
Uh, continuing, you know our program and operating as an alternative collection program is so that you know we can make sure that yes, it is HDPE in the case of containers themselves, most of them are HDPE #2.
1:11:6.0 --> 1:11:34.740
Mark Hudson
And we are our collecting those and would want to continue to collect those through our process because of the potential hazards. If growers do not properly rinse the containers. But I should also mention that you know in the case of EPR, it certainly totally changes the scope of what we're about. Yes, today the ACRC program is related to containers.
1:11:34.830 --> 1:11:43.0
Mark Hudson
But if we were to create an entity that could comply as an alternative collection program and be a 501C3, we would probably be looking at.
1:11:43.880 --> 1:11:55.0
Mark Hudson
You know, we would assume that we would be needing to comply with all types of Ag packaging or add chemicals packaging. So that could include other things like LDPE bags and.
1:11:56.460 --> 1:12:10.690
Mark Hudson
You know, uh paper bags and you know, other types of packaging beyond just HDP #2. So we will be for that reason, you know, we're assuming that we'll be looking at a much broader scope than what we look at today.
1:12:13.170 --> 1:12:14.460
Elena Bertocci
Thank you. OK.
1:12:16.20 --> 1:12:16.510
Brian Beneski
Thank you.
1:12:18.70 --> 1:12:18.720
Mark Hudson
Thank you all.
1:12:28.640 --> 1:12:32.970
Andy Hackman
So when a question for you, so you raise a good point about the fees being set.
1:12:33.870 --> 1:12:40.960
Andy Hackman
But what's produced and sold in the state you guys are setting the fees. You're that's what the discussion in July, right?
1:12:41.650 --> 1:12:44.780
Andy Hackman
So you're probably going to need if the department setting the fees.
1:12:46.40 --> 1:12:50.710
Andy Hackman
To rule or setting the fee rate to rule, I assume it be set by ruler.
1:12:52.230 --> 1:12:53.30
Andy Hackman
So the question.
1:12:54.710 --> 1:12:56.300
Andy Hackman
You guys are gonna need some data.
1:12:57.360 --> 1:13:0.310
Andy Hackman
In order to set the budget for the stewardship organization.
1:13:1.100 --> 1:13:2.980
Andy Hackman
Because if you set the rate too low.
1:13:5.230 --> 1:13:7.250
Andy Hackman
SO your progress is not gonna be able to cover.
1:13:8.390 --> 1:13:10.590
Elena Bertocci
He's probably. I think it's gonna be based on the municipal cost.
1:13:11.470 --> 1:13:13.700
Elena Bertocci
It's based on the municipal cost. It can't be set too low.
1:13:14.520 --> 1:13:19.630
Sarah Nichols
I thought it was to find the exact fee amount it was to find the process by which you set the fee amounts.
1:13:21.640 --> 1:13:25.800
Sarah Nichols
Right. So you will in the room. So you're not setting like it's not like $3 per whatever it's like.
1:13:26.790 --> 1:13:31.420
Sarah Nichols
Is the process so there the amount can change to. You can change to adjust with the budget every year.
1:13:32.340 --> 1:13:35.510
Andy Hackman
But we're still gonna need data before the 1st payments were made.
1:13:36.330 --> 1:13:36.730
Elena Bertocci
Right.
1:13:38.920 --> 1:13:45.280
Andy Hackman
What the cost to manage material is if you're gonna set the rate for the first year because that has to be, if it's not, set the rule.
1:13:46.340 --> 1:13:47.830
Andy Hackman
Asked them be set outside a rule.
1:13:50.150 --> 1:13:50.620
Andy Hackman
Move.
1:13:51.920 --> 1:14:1.200
Andy Hackman
Rain settings schedule agreement, a contract. I don't know. Like I haven't done this. So and this. And I mean our laws so different than the other three states. That's why this is.
1:14:2.270 --> 1:14:3.720
Andy Hackman
Wow, this is on you guys too.
1:14:4.780 --> 1:14:9.830
Andy Hackman
Help us set the budget stewardship. I'm not stewardship, organization that we're gonna run one but.
1:14:12.510 --> 1:14:14.450
Andy Hackman
Like you guys are going to need data.
1:14:16.950 --> 1:14:19.80
Andy Hackman
You said the process for setting fees and.
1:14:20.530 --> 1:14:25.150
Andy Hackman
But it's all related to what sounds like it's coming from municipalities to back to the question of.
1:14:26.170 --> 1:14:28.220
Andy Hackman
Of making this data flow easy.
1:14:29.600 --> 1:14:37.270
Andy Hackman
It's critically get some data though, otherwise you can't determine what fees we need to collect at the stewardship organization. Again, not me.
1:14:37.950 --> 1:14:38.220
Andy Hackman
But.
1:14:39.140 --> 1:14:40.70
Andy Hackman
From the producers.
1:14:40.920 --> 1:15:13.900
Elena Bertocci
So right municipalities would have to report and then the producers would have to pay after. Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK. I just may have just trying this. No, this is helpful because, yeah, I don't know how sweet raised the money. (Sarah Nichols) So I talked to Victor Bell about this before. He's retired now, but he worked for organization that was calculating things for companies participating EPR programs around the world. And he said that the term ready reckoner, maybe. But like that very first year, you almost have people like just you pay in and then he was almost like credited back to you. If it turns out that that wasn't exactly what you have to.
1:15:13.980 --> 1:15:17.580
Sarah Nichols
pay, you know or ohh that we you know, you just kind of have to.
1:15:18.790 --> 1:15:29.520
Sarah Nichols
Do something up front to get that in those initial funds into the stewardship organization to pay the staff to figure this stuff out. So like that that first year is like trick is really tricky. I know, but that's.
1:15:30.180 --> 1:15:34.520
Andy Hackman
Are those were for stewardship programs where the state isn't running the program?
1:15:35.940 --> 1:15:37.870
Sarah Nichols
Well, there's so other stewardship organizations.
1:15:38.740 --> 1:15:39.350
Sarah Nichols
So.
1:15:40.600 --> 1:15:51.880
Andy Hackman
No, but the fees are not set by the stewardship organization and all the other programs. The fees are set by the stewardship organization. Well, right the the product yourself. (Sarah Nichols) Yeah. But the fees, the fee amounts is set by the stewardship organization.
1:15:52.500 --> 1:16:8.550
Sarah Nichols
But not the process by which she set the need so that the rates are set by the stewardship organization and all those are jurisdictions. (Elena Bertocci) So I think and and this also gets back to the fact that like producer payments are do six months first producer payments are do six months after the stewardship organization is chosen which is like.
1:16:11.80 --> 1:16:19.660
Elena Bertocci
Right. And I know that what they didn't I wanna say Quebec, but let's not say back. Just someone did this where they got they basically got.
1:16:22.540 --> 1:16:28.10
Elena Bertocci
Some of the I think it was probably some of the bigger manufacturers had some incentive to.
1:16:29.440 --> 1:16:30.370
Elena Bertocci
Pay in early.
1:16:31.260 --> 1:16:32.670
Elena Bertocci
And.
1:16:34.680 --> 1:16:52.610
Elena Bertocci
And then got that their payment offset when it was due. Maybe you know to a greater degree obviously for putting in the money up front. So like because you're gonna need right pay the stewardship, the, the stewardship organization is gonna need money to do the training and all the stuff to get you up and running.
1:16:54.30 --> 1:16:55.430
Elena Bertocci
And so there is going to be.
1:16:58.420 --> 1:17:8.270
Elena Bertocci
Yeah. The development period, there's, there's this. There's this time when all of a sudden, this money has to come in like, like (Andy Hackman) that was not state specific that that was the Canadian Stewardship Association.
1:17:9.90 --> 1:17:11.780
Elena Bertocci
Putting in that money paid in. Yeah. Yeah, I mean.
1:17:13.850 --> 1:17:16.810
Andy Hackman
Enter. You guys picked me. The stewardship organization too.
1:17:19.950 --> 1:17:24.480
Elena Bertocci
So yeah, yeah, I don't be set up first, so there might be similar to borrow.
1:17:25.820 --> 1:17:26.510
Elena Bertocci
Ohh.
1:17:27.330 --> 1:17:28.880
Andy Hackman
But we own the program, Colorado.
1:17:32.50 --> 1:17:36.920
Elena Bertocci
You know that's gonna be definitely a tricky, tricky piece. (Brian Beneski) Yeah, the timing of it, yeah.
1:17:37.640 --> 1:17:39.750
Brian Beneski
Uh, Tony, do you have more to say?
1:17:43.810 --> 1:17:52.310
Tony Smith
Yeah, with, with all due respect, we out here in cyberspace camp, participate in the group conversations you folks, I have the luxury of doing.
1:17:54.530 --> 1:17:59.980
Tony Smith
So I have just asked you keep an eye for those out here in cyberspace. If they do have any, any comments?
1:18:0.870 --> 1:18:8.280
Tony Smith
Umm. Alanna. Did you say that the first payment from the SSO are due six months from the time they open the doors?
1:18:10.870 --> 1:18:11.400
Tony Smith
Certainly.
1:18:12.460 --> 1:18:13.200
Tony Smith
I didn't open it.
1:18:10.610 --> 1:18:16.400
Elena Bertocci
Let me hold on. You shouldn't open my mouth without looking at this first. Has it changed so many times?
1:18:17.520 --> 1:18:18.210
Elena Bertocci
But.
1:18:19.990 --> 1:18:21.220
Elena Bertocci
Yeah, 180 days.
1:18:22.900 --> 1:18:23.360
Tony Smith
What was?
1:18:22.630 --> 1:18:33.660
Elena Bertocci
Yeah. So once your organization is chosen, so this, there's an RFP process. The department chooses the accepted stewardship organization 180 days. First producer payments are due.
1:18:35.90 --> 1:18:38.980
Tony Smith
How? How long in advance of that six month time period?
1:18:40.930 --> 1:18:57.750
Tony Smith
Will you be or someone will be speaking with producers to see what they're gonna be paying into this pool of money? Because I don't expect every producer to be sent an invoice and they call accounting and say, yeah, cut state of Maine to check for this.
1:18:59.470 --> 1:19:6.320
Tony Smith
I don't expect them to. I expect some negotiations between the producers and who was ever setting those fees.
1:19:7.970 --> 1:19:8.770
Tony Smith
It it's.
1:19:10.110 --> 1:19:10.820
Tony Smith
We.
1:19:12.470 --> 1:19:14.900
Tony Smith
It's not that simple, I don't believe.
1:19:15.760 --> 1:19:16.520
Tony Smith
Unless.
1:19:19.800 --> 1:19:24.750
Tony Smith
It's gonna need a lot of contact by somebody of the producers.
1:19:26.290 --> 1:19:32.690
Tony Smith
To discuss these fees with them, and I can't remember, I think his name is Andy.
1:19:33.890 --> 1:19:37.780
Tony Smith
Said that, you folks are setting the fees based on municipal information.
1:19:38.470 --> 1:19:41.70
Andy Hackman
You know DEP setting the fees, the way the laws are.
1:19:40.830 --> 1:19:43.590
Tony Smith
Yeah. I didn't mean you. I'm sorry, Andy. Yep.
1:19:44.320 --> 1:19:44.810
Tony Smith
Yep.
1:19:42.360 --> 1:19:45.530
Andy Hackman
Sorry, we're collecting this stewardship organization, that me.
1:19:46.60 --> 1:19:48.340
Tony Smith
No, no, no. Yeah.
1:19:46.980 --> 1:19:48.770
Andy Hackman
But yeah, we're collecting the fees.
1:19:49.200 --> 1:19:49.490
Tony Smith
Yeah.
1:19:51.280 --> 1:19:55.960
Tony Smith
I just need a. There's gonna have to be a lot of outreach to those producers to discuss fees.
1:19:57.600 --> 1:19:58.30
Breton, Mary B
Yep.
1:19:57.950 --> 1:20:3.650
Tony Smith
Because and also I don't see where the money would come from six months into it.
1:20:4.490 --> 1:20:7.360
Tony Smith
To start making reimbursements? That's not going to happen.
1:20:9.980 --> 1:20:10.700
Tony Smith
In my opinion.
1:20:9.970 --> 1:20:13.250
Andy Hackman
Had the laws written them? Yeah. Weird.
1:20:11.610 --> 1:20:19.30
Tony Smith
Yeah, yours. Yes, I know. Yeah, that. That's. I'm just wondering how many producers or folks were on the?
1:20:20.40 --> 1:20:22.730
Tony Smith
In the lawmaking process involved with that.
1:20:23.720 --> 1:20:24.40
Andy Hackman
Yeah.
1:20:24.690 --> 1:20:26.200
Sarah Nichols
They're never. I'm construction.
1:20:26.940 --> 1:20:33.440
Elena Bertocci
Umm so. So I think that that's gonna be an issue that if.
1:20:34.240 --> 1:20:42.200
Elena Bertocci
We could, maybe we should push to produce our fees because I I that's July, that is July.
1:20:43.780 --> 1:20:44.320
Tony Smith
This year.
1:20:45.60 --> 1:20:48.540
Elena Bertocci
Yeah. So I need to work with anyone has any ideas? Yeah, I I guess I don't.
1:20:49.490 --> 1:20:53.980
Breton, Mary B
We could, like, coming up and it's all linked. It is. It's all linked.
1:20:55.350 --> 1:21:13.540
Elena Bertocci
But one of the things that you made me think of, Tony, when you said you basically said communication, there's gonna need to be. So a lot of these other laws have an Advisory Council, which is like a formal set of people that, like, come together and talk about this every whatever six months, three months year, they're different.
1:21:14.900 --> 1:21:21.760
Elena Bertocci
There's nothing in statute here in Maine for that. There's also nothing to prevent that.
1:21:24.80 --> 1:21:31.690
Elena Bertocci
And so, yeah, thoughts on, you know, the best ways for perhaps municipalities to?
1:21:32.810 --> 1:21:35.290
Tony Smith
Request it. Request that group.
1:21:36.910 --> 1:21:37.870
Tony Smith
For the state of Maine.
1:21:38.890 --> 1:21:41.670
Andy Hackman
What's that process? We'd raise that as a concept that was shut down.
1:21:42.600 --> 1:21:42.900
Elena Bertocci
Hmm.
1:21:42.360 --> 1:21:43.850
Tony Smith
It was shot now, OK.
1:21:43.600 --> 1:21:59.630
Elena Bertocci
What? (Andy Hackman) I’m not assuming the position, but I think the Commissioner had never fail of advisory councils, but that was related to other issues. It's just my recollection not well, I know that this for the Commissioners office at all. I know that. (Elena Bertocci) Yeah. Well, that's good for you to bring that up to me too.
1:21:59.930 --> 1:22:2.370
Elena Bertocci
It's reading what the Commissioner's Office thinks.
1:22:4.190 --> 1:22:8.50
Elena Bertocci
But I think there is. I've heard a lot of pushback against like.
1:22:8.690 --> 1:22:9.640
Elena Bertocci
From other states.
1:22:10.520 --> 1:22:12.670
Elena Bertocci
Against the idea of too many official groups.
1:22:13.130 --> 1:22:13.630
Elena Bertocci
Umm.
1:22:13.210 --> 1:22:13.660
Tony Smith
Yep.
1:22:15.120 --> 1:22:18.490
Elena Bertocci
Which I which may be or may not be different from.
1:22:20.0 --> 1:22:28.720
Elena Bertocci
The more unofficial process, but do you do you? I guess let's. OK, let's not say Advisory Council in that case. But if if there were.
1:22:30.640 --> 1:22:36.540
Elena Bertocci
Do we think there are places that it'd be helpful for the municipalities to communicate with?
1:22:37.380 --> 1:22:37.870
Elena Bertocci
Umm.
1:22:39.630 --> 1:22:49.20
Elena Bertocci
Other you know, producers, stewardship, organization, recyclers, whatever on this municipal reimbursements piece and how might.
1:22:46.570 --> 1:22:49.330
Elena Bertocci
Fully reimbursements piece and how my.
1:22:49.960 --> 1:22:50.440
Elena Bertocci
For.
1:22:51.670 --> 1:22:52.180
Tony Smith
Elena.
1:22:53.410 --> 1:22:53.800
Tony Smith
You know.
1:22:53.220 --> 1:22:54.130
Elena Bertocci
Oh, go ahead.
1:22:57.720 --> 1:22:58.230
Elena Bertocci
Yeah.
1:22:55.110 --> 1:22:59.230
Tony Smith
Did you say municipalities to correspond with the producers?
1:23:0.190 --> 1:23:8.220
Elena Bertocci
With with whoever it would be useful to correspond with in terms of getting these reimbursements. Would it be useful to correspond with, you know?
1:23:6.810 --> 1:23:8.790
Tony Smith
Yeah, you need to clearing house.
1:23:11.340 --> 1:23:12.680
Elena Bertocci
Just like.
1:23:12.790 --> 1:23:17.50
Group
That's yeah, that's the stewardship organizations rule.
1:23:15.470 --> 1:23:18.400
Group
But yes, not the municipalities, the SO.
1:23:19.490 --> 1:23:23.800
Brian Beneski
Yeah, that's the Stewardship should be worked into the stewardship RFP.
1:23:28.220 --> 1:23:29.920
Andy Hackman
You still have the Council.
1:23:31.80 --> 1:23:42.90
Andy Hackman
Off I don't know. I mean that that the, the, the stewardship organization could operate in Advisory Council if they chose to after it's selected, but that's still easy with these 6 means of having to collect fees.
1:23:43.380 --> 1:23:43.820
Andy Hackman
And that's.

1:23:44.980 --> 1:23:48.480
Andy Hackman
Yeah, be lucky to schedule one meeting like anybody would, right?
1:23:50.50 --> 1:23:52.270
Elena Bertocci
Yeah, there may be a need to go ahead. Sorry, no.
1:23:54.390 --> 1:24:1.60
Elena Bertocci
While there may be a need to have a special intro fee that's related to say yeah.
1:24:2.380 --> 1:24:6.650
Elena Bertocci
Like a different fee, like a. It's just our first just to cover that first.
1:24:10.520 --> 1:24:12.260
Elena Bertocci
Belonging thing, yeah.
1:24:13.680 --> 1:24:15.850
Sarah Nichols
Ohh, registration fee yeah.
1:24:16.740 --> 1:24:18.930
Elena Bertocci
Perhaps I you know, that might be a way to do it.
1:24:21.220 --> 1:24:21.970
Elena Bertocci
I don't know.
1:24:22.620 --> 1:24:25.390
Elena Bertocci
That would be as long as it were less than you know.
1:24:27.60 --> 1:24:31.520
Elena Bertocci
It's a good thing to think about. Everybody has ideas. Please send please send ideas on that.
1:24:32.360 --> 1:24:39.340
Elena Bertocci
Back onto that. These have started in other places of the world and they did somehow accomplish getting off the ground round so.
1:24:42.670 --> 1:24:45.820
Elena Bertocci
Little bit more exactly learn from them in.
1:24:46.700 --> 1:24:47.30
Elena Bertocci
On.
1:24:46.420 --> 1:24:47.370
Tony Smith
But we.
1:24:48.0 --> 1:24:48.260
Elena Bertocci
Right.
1:24:49.10 --> 1:25:7.0
Tony Smith
That yes, they they worked in other parts of the world, but I'm wondering how much money was thrown at it right up front to get it off the ground and then those monies are on the back page of the financial report collecting dust. And we tout how great this this is moving forward.
1:25:8.260 --> 1:25:12.70
Tony Smith
And additional fees are just another fee.
1:25:16.160 --> 1:25:16.740
Brian Beneski
Maybe.
1:25:16.300 --> 1:25:18.790
Tony Smith
I can see the the RFP getting longer.
1:25:22.170 --> 1:25:24.280
Brian Beneski
Within the first year, we could just use.
1:25:27.480 --> 1:25:28.20
Tony Smith
Yes.
1:25:25.390 --> 1:25:34.610
Brian Beneski
Really basic data that we have and make some assumption or fees for that first year and then like you said have a situation where you then correct it.
1:25:35.700 --> 1:25:47.470
Group
Afterwards, have a. Yeah, yeah. Ready. Reckoner was the term he used the term he used. I mean, that seems to be the way to go. Yeah, some sort of like, look back, right. And look back after. That's true cost.
1:25:49.890 --> 1:25:53.940
Group
Yeah, they can. They can decide to roll it over. Whatever, yeah.
1:25:53.780 --> 1:25:54.390
Tony Smith
Yeah.
1:25:55.920 --> 1:26:9.610
Tony Smith
If I could that, that's the true cost is a good, good statement to compare once it's up and running, we may any big business like this SO does take an investment.
1:26:10.860 --> 1:26:11.870
Tony Smith
To get up and running.
1:26:13.300 --> 1:26:17.980
Tony Smith
So maybe those are the monies I was referring to in the back of the report.
1:26:18.600 --> 1:26:21.30
Tony Smith
And then we'll have the true cost once it's up and running.
1:26:28.310 --> 1:26:35.160
Andy Hackman
With the error that there will be that there's the stewardship fund is unregulated fund, it's called out in the statute too, so.
1:26:36.560 --> 1:26:38.110
Andy Hackman
Monies that are collected there.
1:26:39.10 --> 1:26:41.500
Andy Hackman
We'll have to be accounted for in some fashion, so.
1:26:42.640 --> 1:26:46.180
Andy Hackman
They will eventually have to relate to the true cost of reimbursing municipalities.
1:26:47.60 --> 1:26:49.390
Andy Hackman
You know, you know square it needs to be a squaring of that.
1:26:52.260 --> 1:26:57.550
Brian Beneski
I mean, you could put that on the storage report lization to it's part of their operation will be to.
1:26:58.470 --> 1:26:59.300
Brian Beneski
Square up.
1:27:0.750 --> 1:27:14.150
Brian Beneski
Based on what the producer puts in, sorry, Brian. Yeah, based on what the producers put a put on the mic at the end of the year, it was do as squaring of like I said, like a look back end directly make sure that.
1:27:14.840 --> 1:27:18.830
Sarah Nichols
That's a card like the transparent accounting of all of this is, I think one of the.
1:27:19.710 --> 1:27:21.470
Sarah Nichols
Good features of our policy.
1:27:33.680 --> 1:27:34.330
Brian Beneski
OK.
1:27:35.550 --> 1:27:36.200
Brian Beneski
So we.
1:27:37.670 --> 1:27:50.370
Vanessa Berry
Before we move on to the next thing you had mentioned, so process for municipal reimbursement and kind of having this like almost like an orientation at the very beginning when folks opt in or however we wanna call that.
1:27:51.590 --> 1:28:14.320
Vanessa Berry
I think there should be some sort of ongoing like education because of staff turnover or whatever might happen at the end of the year. You might have a different person managing the program doesn't have the same set of skills, even though the municipality itself is locked in. So that might be something to account for and making sure that everyone on the same page felt readily recyclable and all of that stuff.
1:28:15.230 --> 1:28:15.660
Elena Bertocci
Ah.
1:28:18.140 --> 1:28:20.220
Elena Bertocci
You just reminded me of something that they shouldn't.
1:28:21.270 --> 1:28:27.960
Elena Bertocci
Well, something that I'm Shelby mentioned earlier, she said. So who is the person at the municipality that we're talking about here?
1:28:28.790 --> 1:28:31.320
Elena Bertocci
And I think that's a good question.
1:28:31.990 --> 1:28:33.720
Elena Bertocci
Jim has said on the way here in the car.
1:28:34.820 --> 1:28:43.210
Elena Bertocci
Is it the town manager? Is it the transfer station manager? Is it the public works director? Is it gonna vary? You know, if we're designing your report.
1:28:41.110 --> 1:28:43.280
Tony Smith
it's up to the town.
1:28:44.970 --> 1:28:46.240
Brian Beneski
Yeah, they say we should be good.
1:28:45.330 --> 1:28:46.260
Tony Smith
That's me.
1:28:47.910 --> 1:28:48.760
Brian Beneski
I'll go ahead, Tony.
1:28:49.360 --> 1:28:50.960
Tony Smith
That would be after the town wouldn't.
1:28:52.90 --> 1:28:53.280
Vanessa Berry
Yeah, there are the designates.
1:28:52.560 --> 1:28:53.540
Tony Smith
To appoint someone.
1:28:54.170 --> 1:28:58.140
Elena Bertocci
There's a name is it is it useful for to be geared?
1:29:5.80 --> 1:29:5.750
Tony Smith
Now.
1:29:0.490 --> 1:29:7.60
Elena Bertocci
But I don't think we'd wanna say. I don't think we'd wanna say only the public works director can fill out this form, but.
1:29:7.640 --> 1:29:9.870
Tony Smith
Towns know their own employees much better.
1:29:8.360 --> 1:29:12.920
Elena Bertocci
If we're, if we're thinking about the interaction between the town and the stewardship organization.
1:29:14.780 --> 1:29:21.340
Elena Bertocci
Would it be easiest for the transfer and maybe this just varies by town? Would it be easiest to set that up?
1:29:22.80 --> 1:29:31.670
Elena Bertocci
Assuming that a transfer station operator is, is the sort of generally intended on audience versus or the town manager or the you know?
1:29:32.500 --> 1:29:33.380
Elena Bertocci
Does that make any sense?
1:29:35.740 --> 1:29:36.260
Elena Bertocci
By the.
1:29:35.540 --> 1:29:40.570
Tony Smith
My suggestion would be to let the let the town they know their employees and their backgrounds better than we do.
1:29:41.760 --> 1:30:14.490
Vanessa Berry
OK, just not worry about your recommendation on whoever's right I mentioned. (Sarah Parmelee) I was going to say I think for South Portland, it's most likely gonna be me and I'm in the sustainability department, which a lot of towns don't have, but I get what you're saying like if the city manager is the contact that is most available to folks, it might make sense to send to them and then they can send it to whoever is actually the person. So maybe start out with the city manager and then like each town or city can update their contact with the actual person and should go toward.
1:30:14.740 --> 1:30:15.720
Sarah Parmelee
To moving forward.
1:30:23.170 --> 1:30:23.730
Elena Bertocci
Would there be?
1:30:22.670 --> 1:30:25.360
Elena Bertocci
And would there be differences in?
1:30:26.800 --> 1:30:29.250
Elena Bertocci
The sort of outreach the SO would do.
1:30:31.30 --> 1:30:32.240
Elena Bertocci
Depending on.
1:30:38.380 --> 1:30:44.780
Elena Bertocci
No, that person would be chosen to match what? Never mind. (Brian Beneski) OK, Tony, you got something?
1:30:46.250 --> 1:30:48.690
Tony Smith
Yeah. Thank you again, I'll.
1:30:49.440 --> 1:31:10.160
Tony Smith
Repeat that that the towns know their people better than than we do. But if you were sold on reporting directly at the top city or town manager, I would have a comma or designee immediately after that, because I don't think you're going to see too many like it. Again, I would leave it up to.
1:31:11.500 --> 1:31:23.500
Tony Smith
If you want to get to town manager on the hook as the as the top manager of the town, short of a councilor or board a selectman, then do so but have or designee or leave it up to them to appoint someone.
1:31:25.460 --> 1:31:26.540
Tony Smith
But if you're looking.
1:31:25.570 --> 1:31:28.60
Elena Bertocci
Yeah, I guess I wasn't so much asking.
1:31:29.340 --> 1:31:30.620
Elena Bertocci
Thinking that we would.
1:31:31.530 --> 1:31:34.510
Elena Bertocci
That we would specify so much as thinking like.
1:31:36.130 --> 1:31:44.540
Elena Bertocci
In a town who would be the person you know who would tend to be the well, I guess it seems like it was a good question. So never mind, we can just stop. It's OK.
1:31:49.530 --> 1:31:57.280
Jessica Nadeau
OK. So we're gonna move to the next. We just the last prepared topic for discussion we have is.
1:31:58.900 --> 1:31:59.370
Brian Beneski
Mark.
1:32:0.870 --> 1:32:1.840
Brian Beneski
Do you have one more?
1:32:3.80 --> 1:32:3.970
Brian Beneski
Gonna make you.
1:32:4.810 --> 1:32:5.630
Brian Beneski
Or yeah.
1:32:12.920 --> 1:32:23.230
Mark Hudson
I just have a question about how does reported municipal costs will be audited or checked in in some way? Is is that laid out here at some somewhere?
1:32:29.310 --> 1:32:30.300
Elena Bertocci
Not at all yet.
1:32:31.340 --> 1:32:32.620
Elena Bertocci
That's what's next.
1:32:34.670 --> 1:32:47.730
Mark Hudson
That seems like a pretty important and basic step of making sure that we're all of those that will be paying those reimbursements that they can have confidence and transparency around the reported costs.
1:32:51.360 --> 1:32:55.810
Elena Bertocci
Yeah, that was in there that there was third party auditing of yeah, think so.
1:32:56.750 --> 1:33:0.640
Elena Bertocci
Ohh, in the in the law I thought you mad. We talked about it in this.
1:33:2.270 --> 1:33:2.740
Elena Bertocci
I mean.
1:33:3.720 --> 1:33:7.810
Elena Bertocci
I'm sure that there is. Yeah, I'm sure that there is. There is.
1:33:9.460 --> 1:33:18.330
Elena Bertocci
There's all kinds of auditing. There's a whole section on auditing that's next meeting. (Brian Beneski) Yeah, I think it's gonna be a topic of it's own. Yeah. So series of meetings.
1:33:19.170 --> 1:33:20.340
Mark Hudson
OK. Thank you very much.
1:33:29.390 --> 1:33:29.730
Brian Beneski
Yeah.
1:33:34.120 --> 1:33:56.30
Jessica Nadeau
OK. So the last prepared discussion topic, we received comments that speak to what cost should be reimbursed including recycling of non readily recyclable covered packaging materials. So we would like to ask the group to what extent should recycling of non readily recyclable covered packaging materials be reimbursed?
1:33:59.570 --> 1:34:12.70
Jessica Nadeau
For instance, if a municipality decides to collect, store and transport unveiled polystyrene loads to Ohio to be recycled, should these recycling cost be reimbursed?
1:34:14.120 --> 1:34:15.660
Sarah Nichols
That's rhetorical question. Yeah.
1:34:16.720 --> 1:34:25.270
Elena Bertocci
Obviously those costs should not be reimbursed. Where's the line where the line? If that's the extreme, where is that line? That's gonna happen though.
1:34:27.730 --> 1:34:34.380
Andy Hackman
It is. We don't have enough processing capacity in the state of Maine for all of our recyclables, so they're probably there's a market in Ohio that may happen.
1:34:35.400 --> 1:34:37.770
Andy Hackman
But if it's a non readily recyclable item.
1:34:39.100 --> 1:34:40.550
Andy Hackman
We're not opposed to paying for.
1:34:41.310 --> 1:34:42.220
Andy Hackman
Items that are.
1:34:43.20 --> 1:35:0.790
Andy Hackman
Not readily recyclable to be recycled, because that's the goal, right? Is to move things up the hierarchy so we're not opposed to pay not paying for that. (Vanessa Berry) How do they become readily recyclable unless people less people start recycling? So we're not opposed to paying for that because it's it's a non relative recyclable item that's being recycled.
1:35:1.670 --> 1:35:4.980
Andy Hackman
And how do you discount the transportation cost to Ohio?
1:35:6.20 --> 1:35:22.380
Andy Hackman
And some of that's going to be borne by the demand in the market for the material. It's only gonna go to Ohio if there's a market for it. (Elena Bertocci) Well, except so previously, people only recycled things that it made economic sense to recycle. If we say we're gonna reimburse your cost like.
1:35:23.180 --> 1:35:30.850
Elena Bertocci
You can do crazy things for recycling. You know you can if you're gonna pay enough. And so if this is gonna say we're gonna pay for it.
1:35:33.810 --> 1:35:35.140
Elena Bertocci
It's not probably.
1:35:36.720 --> 1:35:41.160
Andy Hackman
No, that's just I'm just kidding. There's a there's a reasonableness to it, right. There has to be a.
1:35:41.830 --> 1:35:42.470
Andy Hackman
Average.
1:35:43.480 --> 1:35:46.710
Vanessa Berry
Cost some work to make that process more efficient.
1:35:50.400 --> 1:35:51.240
Elena Bertocci
What does that look like?
1:35:52.970 --> 1:35:55.470
Brian Beneski
Yeah, a bunch of comments or comments I'll.
1:35:57.970 --> 1:36:1.560
Brian Beneski
So Mark was Mark was first I think he was wrong.
1:36:2.170 --> 1:36:2.590
Brian Beneski
3rd.
1:36:4.670 --> 1:36:10.680
Brian Beneski
I know the numbers. I think just. OK. OK. I'm gonna go with. OK, Tony, Tony's first.
1:36:13.420 --> 1:36:22.190
Tony Smith
Thank you. What are a couple of examples of non readily recyclable materials? Is that a contaminated cardboard box?
1:36:23.320 --> 1:36:25.880
Tony Smith
What makes them non readily recyclable?
1:36:27.480 --> 1:36:28.510
Tony Smith
What are examples?
1:36:29.290 --> 1:36:30.590
Jim Guerra
Black corrugated.
1:36:29.630 --> 1:36:30.600
Tony Smith
Let's start again.
1:36:31.260 --> 1:36:32.10
Jim Guerra
Or.
1:36:32.530 --> 1:36:33.200
Tony Smith
What's that, Jim?
1:36:44.40 --> 1:36:44.640
Tony Smith
OK.
1:36:33.190 --> 1:36:56.420
Jim Guerra
Except aseptic containers W corrugated cardboard, but accept it might be on the right side. (Elena Bertocci) It might be it's it's not a defined list yet Tony, which is part of the issue, but we you know, we felt like we felt like Styrofoam was probably a safe off of it not on it, but that's not been defined yet. So it's hard to give examples but the point being that you can.
1:36:57.480 --> 1:36:59.30
Elena Bertocci
A lot of things are are.
1:37:0.910 --> 1:37:3.280
Elena Bertocci
You can physically you can technically recycle them.
1:37:3.910 --> 1:37:4.790
Tony Smith
Yeah, and.
1:37:5.330 --> 1:37:7.710
Elena Bertocci
Never would. So are you?
1:37:7.250 --> 1:37:25.880
Tony Smith
Back when back when the when China shut down, accepting a bunch of, most of, if not all of our materials, for those materials in storage are on the ships considered, would they be considered as non readily recyclable as there are specific definition of that somewhere?
1:37:28.190 --> 1:37:32.530
Tony Smith
They sure weren't readily recyclable at that point in time.
1:37:34.710 --> 1:37:37.170
Breton, Mary B
That's part of our next group of discussions.
1:37:36.480 --> 1:37:39.210
Tony Smith
OK, alright, thank you.
1:37:40.620 --> 1:37:42.110
Breton, Mary B
Shelby, you're up next.
1:37:45.790 --> 1:38:13.440
Shelby Wright
So I just anecdotically honestly, you know, we ship all of the recyclables out of the state, mostly for processing. So to think about Styrofoam, for example, there is a place that recycles Styrofoam in New York City or in New York, you would state you would not consider it to be readily recyclable. But if a collection program wanted to collect that, very light material and ship it to.
1:38:14.900 --> 1:38:32.310
Shelby Wright
In New York, then, that would be reimbursable under the program, just as shipping recyclable readily recyclable materials to. For example, Georgia or Alabama or West Virginia to be processed would also be reimbursable, the transportation cost, correct?
1:38:34.70 --> 1:38:39.510
Andy Hackman
But that's not the well, shall we? If you're doing that, though, that's your cost. That's not the municipalities cost.
1:38:40.770 --> 1:38:41.450
Andy Hackman
The municipality.
1:38:40.740 --> 1:38:44.520
Shelby Wright
But if a municipality we're working through a broker that we're shipping those materials.
1:38:45.510 --> 1:38:58.570
Shelby Wright
So a lot of the transfer stations work independently with their bailing operations to ship these materials out of state, so they do become the municipalities cost or the regional disposal districts cost.
1:39:1.220 --> 1:39:4.710
Shelby Wright
I mean Maine Resource Recovery Association has been doing it for 30 years.
1:39:7.660 --> 1:39:20.330
Shelby Wright
And they are shipping these baled materials from Dexter from, you know, Dover Foxcroft from Boothbay out of state to be recycled and that becomes a municipalities cost.
1:39:21.730 --> 1:39:26.450
Andy Hackman
I've been getting revenue from that material being processed down in New York City or New York.
1:39:26.160 --> 1:39:43.950
Shelby Wright
And then they would be getting revenue. And I know we've talked about backing out the revenue from the reimbursement costs etcetera, but I would imagine that those would be automatically reimbursement reimbursable costs to the municipality because those municipalities that is the way that they have run their recycling programs with their own source separated MRFs.
1:39:47.310 --> 1:39:51.190
Elena Bertocci
Do you think, Shelby, that it should be if if a municipalities willing to collect?
1:39:51.920 --> 1:39:58.910
Elena Bertocci
And they find a place that's willing to accept it from recycling, that it should be paid regardless of the cost or environmental impact.
1:40:2.40 --> 1:40:10.60
Shelby Wright
Well, that is recycling, right, because until we can increase our own state infrastructure, things are always gonna go away to be processed.
1:40:10.770 --> 1:40:34.830
Shelby Wright
Because we don't have, you know, a well. I guess we do have a bottle place, but we don't have places where plastics go to be made into carpet or clothing in Maine. So those expenses are part of the recycling supply chain that are born by, in this case, what you're talking about would be municipalities that own and operate their own murphs for source separated collection.
1:40:45.830 --> 1:40:53.90
Andy Hackman
There's gonna be a problem if this is jumps to the producer side of things. If you set an average rate per material.
1:40:54.20 --> 1:40:58.780
Andy Hackman
And would begin accepting any cost like this. Any cost that's reimbursable.
1:41:0.40 --> 1:41:3.750
Andy Hackman
Like say it's $1,000,000 to haul this stuff down to New York.
1:41:4.570 --> 1:41:6.970
Andy Hackman
We're never going to. We're always breaking and break the budget if.
1:41:7.710 --> 1:41:17.140
Andy Hackman
You have to set an upfront cost based upon that material and people are spending millions of dollars to send this stuff because I mean.
1:41:18.540 --> 1:41:20.200
Andy Hackman
There's you're never going to be in budget.
1:41:22.120 --> 1:41:29.540
Elena Bertocci
That's how we're saying. So you said the budget being it costs 1,000,000 bucks to you know what, you're obviously not gonna do either. I don't believe you know. That's I.
1:41:30.520 --> 1:41:31.530
Elena Bertocci
Or your budget is.
1:41:32.270 --> 1:41:33.340
Elena Bertocci
Every time of.
1:41:34.210 --> 1:41:38.170
Elena Bertocci
Styrofoam that you sent into main is 1,000,000 bucks to Stewardship Organization which is.
1:41:41.540 --> 1:41:43.350
Elena Bertocci
So what we're talking about?
1:41:46.240 --> 1:41:49.80
Tony Smith
I think no, no.
1:41:45.790 --> 1:41:50.260
Breton, Mary B
Abigail Sztein is got a hand up. I'm gonna.
1:41:52.30 --> 1:41:53.450
Brian Beneski
Thank you. A president right now.
1:41:56.360 --> 1:41:57.90
Brian Beneski
And then Tony?
1:42:0.200 --> 1:42:5.790
Sztein, Abigail
Thank you. I appreciate it. I think some of this is kind of stuff that was expecting to talk a little bit more about.
1:42:7.130 --> 1:42:20.760
Sztein, Abigail
I don't upcoming session related to recycled content or recyclability, but I do think that it's worth thinking about one these numbers could get up to pretty ridiculous levels and while I think that.
1:42:21.870 --> 1:42:43.200
Sztein, Abigail
Theoretically, the intent with this language is that there would be built in or there would be. I don't know common sense, where if it costs so much for the process to happen, then the structure handles itself, but I don't think that that's a guarantee. And so it would be great if there was language in here where.
1:42:43.610 --> 1:42:45.50
Sztein, Abigail
Umm, you know?
1:42:46.670 --> 1:42:59.160
Sztein, Abigail
If a fee is above a certain point, or you know the cost of transport is above a certain level, there needs to be some sort of further conversation with the SO or something like that. Just because this would become.
1:43:1.0 --> 1:43:12.970
Sztein, Abigail
Really concerning for, you know, a producer or even for a municipality that's sort of wait. So you want me to spend how much out of my theoretical budget that I sure hope I get reimbursed for it to ship it to where?
1:43:14.160 --> 1:43:17.40
Sztein, Abigail
And then perhaps you know in a in a different angle?
1:43:17.240 --> 1:43:36.440
Sztein, Abigail
Umm, you know, is there an opportunity to be including in the calculations for the cost of collection and transfer and all of that also offset those costs by if they're able to sell them material that's been collected and it brings value to?
1:43:37.290 --> 1:43:37.860
Sztein, Abigail
Umm.
1:43:39.400 --> 1:43:51.530
Sztein, Abigail
Because of the value of the product that that is then included in the calculation for lowering the cost back to the producer for that product that's collected.
1:43:54.30 --> 1:43:56.480
Sztein, Abigail
So I'm not sure if that necessarily makes sense, but.
1:43:57.640 --> 1:44:5.570
Sztein, Abigail
Essentially, offsetting costs of collection with the value of selling the collected material.
1:44:7.130 --> 1:44:8.270
Elena Bertocci
Like net cost, you mean?
1:44:8.800 --> 1:44:9.760
Sztein, Abigail
Right, exactly.
1:44:15.290 --> 1:44:16.560
Brian Beneski
Then I'm gonna let let.
1:44:12.930 --> 1:44:16.940
Brian Beneski
Hey, Tony, then Shelby. Then I'm gonna let Lynn and as well.
1:44:17.920 --> 1:44:18.630
Tony Smith
Thank you.
1:44:18.990 --> 1:44:19.420
Tony Smith
Umm.
1:44:21.730 --> 1:44:29.880
Tony Smith
When we talk non readily recyclable materials, does that mean recyclable in the state of Maine?
1:44:31.710 --> 1:44:33.910
Tony Smith
Or recyclable.
1:44:34.910 --> 1:44:40.340
Tony Smith
Where? Because I think I go back last meeting at 2 meetings ago and agree with Andy.
1:44:45.140 --> 1:44:47.510
Tony Smith
Because if that means it.
1:44:48.380 --> 1:44:57.670
Tony Smith
If that means that that this program's gonna pay to ship recyclables to California, where there's a recycling center, that's not right.
1:44:58.700 --> 1:45:1.20
Tony Smith
Maybe I'm off base but am I?
1:45:3.300 --> 1:45:7.850
Elena Bertocci
But I guess the question would be if not, then to what extent where do you point?
1:45:8.190 --> 1:45:8.740
Tony Smith
You.
1:45:11.880 --> 1:45:13.350
Tony Smith
It just doesn't make sense.
1:45:14.720 --> 1:45:19.840
Tony Smith
At all, whether you're shipping light Styrofoam to no offense, Shelby.
1:45:20.730 --> 1:45:21.200
Tony Smith
Umm.
1:45:22.150 --> 1:45:29.20
Tony Smith
To New York or or no. Now Andy, I see what you're you were. So I agree with you.
1:45:29.840 --> 1:45:32.60
Tony Smith
Back couple of meetings ago, absolutely.
1:45:34.0 --> 1:45:34.510
Tony Smith
Thank you.
1:45:34.80 --> 1:45:34.570
Brian Beneski
I'm calling.
1:45:34.170 --> 1:45:35.720
Shelby Wright
No, Tony.
1:45:38.530 --> 1:45:41.350
Brian Beneski
Shelby, did you have something to say to you?
1:45:40.360 --> 1:46:12.680
Shelby Wright
Now I was just gonna say that, you know, obviously what I was stating was, you know, anecdotally to the complexity of the the nature of our own, you know, states recycling system but you know, obviously we wanna find appropriate markets that are both environmentally and economically sustainable. And that is what the PR program is supposed to do. And hopefully that example just kind of furthers the point that what I think we really like to see is more local infrastructure to to facilitate, you know, less carbon footprint and more processing and production in the state.
1:46:12.770 --> 1:46:13.880
Shelby Wright
As a whole, that's all.
1:46:14.510 --> 1:46:18.520
Brian Beneski
OK. And a Lynn, you have the floor.
1:46:20.290 --> 1:46:38.290
Lynn Leavitt
Hi so I agree that there does seem like there has to be some sort of. Well I agree with what Shelby just said that you know the goal of more local infrastructure has to be something that we acknowledge. And I do think there has to be a sort of a common sense line that we draw, though I don't know where that is, but also isn't part of this.
1:46:38.990 --> 1:46:53.220
Lynn Leavitt
You know, it costs a lot to recycle Styrofoam because it's very light and you have to send it to New York, but isn't part of this driving then producers to use materials that are more readily recyclable. So isn't that financial burden part of the whole program's goal?
1:46:59.570 --> 1:46:59.770
Sarah Nichols
And.
1:47:1.880 --> 1:47:3.300
Sarah Nichols
There, you know.
1:47:5.140 --> 1:47:9.230
Brian Beneski
From the floor? Yes. OK. Yeah. No, I.
1:47:12.890 --> 1:47:19.850
Sarah Nichols
So as far as the, I do think that transportation of this material is important. We were just kind of side chatting that at some point, you know.
1:47:20.680 --> 1:47:26.890
Sarah Nichols
Emissions and greenhouse gases should higher overall environmental impact of doing whatever it is, even though it's not necessarily what the lock is.
1:47:29.90 --> 1:47:35.560
Sarah Nichols
But we were talking before about incentivizing municipalities to do the right thing that they're, you know, so you could.
1:47:37.710 --> 1:47:44.140
Sarah Nichols
Incentivize means, qualities or whoever sending those materials to markets who are that are more responsible or close or whatever. So that could be.
1:47:44.840 --> 1:47:50.920
Sarah Nichols
That way, and then as far as the paying for non readily recyclable recycling goes.
1:47:51.730 --> 1:47:53.880
Sarah Nichols
Umm, how about the?
1:47:54.930 --> 1:48:8.210
Sarah Nichols
The producers could pay like per time what it would have cost to dispose of that material, and then the rest is just on the municipality if that's if they wanna try to pay more money to recycle it, they can do that. But.
1:48:9.200 --> 1:48:13.420
Sarah Nichols
The producer should just at least have to pay for whatever it would have cost otherwise to manage it.
1:48:14.730 --> 1:48:15.20
Sarah Nichols
Here.
1:48:18.50 --> 1:48:30.870
Andy Hackman
I don't think this this decision point is driven solely by whether or not the material is ready or cycle or not, because you could take a readily recycled material ship that to Ohio or ship that to New York as well. It's about what's a reasonable cost.
1:48:31.780 --> 1:48:38.30
Andy Hackman 
And I know that's not written in the statute either either, but putting a bound on what is a reasonable.
1:48:38.710 --> 1:48:45.330
Andy Hackman
It's pure cost reimbursement. We're gonna get into it if it's just pure and simple. Whatever you wanna do with material, we're gonna pay for it.
1:48:47.20 --> 1:49:6.680
Andy Hackman
Then there's no way to stop this. There's no way to stop somebody from. You can't contract. There's no contract between the SO and the municipalities like there are in other states where the Stewardship organization actually will have a contractual type of relationship with folks that are doing this. That would say don't do that, don't ship it to China, you know, to have it recycled.
1:49:7.450 --> 1:49:11.340
Andy Hackman
So the only way to get to that is is putting some bounds on what's a.
1:49:12.390 --> 1:49:15.100
Andy Hackman
A reasonable cost reimbursement.
1:49:16.130 --> 1:49:21.400
Andy Hackman
Per ton etcetera, but drawing some of those boundaries to say.
1:49:22.610 --> 1:49:24.260
Andy Hackman
Some reasonable to ship it to China.
1:49:25.320 --> 1:49:33.200
Elena Bertocci
In which case I don't need to be relatively recycling. I don't think it would fall into that readily recyclable. Yeah, really. Recycle material that.
1:49:34.20 --> 1:49:50.830
Andy Hackman
Shall we have not picking on you? But but Casella chooses to ship to. There's nothing stopping them from shipping a readily recyclable material to China. (Elena Bertocci) Yeah, but then their municipalities only gonna get paid at the median. And unless all the municipalities get together and say we're gonna do something ridiculous with this material.
1:49:52.490 --> 1:49:52.720
Andy Hackman
Yeah.
1:49:53.780 --> 1:50:3.450
Elena Bertocci
Reimbursing that cost at a median. It's very clear in here that we're reimbursing it medium (Andy Hackman) OK, that's the way to control it, said the medium point at what a reasonable cost is.
1:50:4.220 --> 1:50:21.250
Andy Hackman
Versus all cost, because there's been suggestions here that we're going to cost reimburse everything well, so. (Elena Bertocci) But when you get into non readily recycle, everyone's gonna be recycling readily recyclable, right? So we're gonna have a whole bunch of points and it's gonna be easy to find that median, right. You're gonna get a reasonable number because you've got.
1:50:22.600 --> 1:50:27.300
Elena Bertocci
100 different people making decision how to do it in the middle is what you're choosing. You're gonna get a reasonable.
1:50:28.270 --> 1:50:30.190
Elena Bertocci
When you get to non readily recyclable.
1:50:30.970 --> 1:50:36.390
Elena Bertocci
It could happen that somebody in some town in Maine says, wouldn't it be great for us to do this?
1:50:37.250 --> 1:50:39.420
Elena Bertocci
And next thing you know, they're doing something nuts.
1:50:40.340 --> 1:50:46.750
Elena Bertocci
Or, you know, they're doing something that they think is and and I guess the question of whether it's nuts or a good thing is it?
1:50:47.480 --> 1:50:58.620
Elena Bertocci
More difficult than I don't want to. I don't want to belittle that, but you could. You could get something where someone doing something. That's pretty extreme from a cost perspective. And there's no other point.
1:51:0.120 --> 1:51:7.260
Andy Hackman
And an immediate above what the right. I mean, you're gonna assume right recyclables are gonna cost less at their media point.
1:51:7.970 --> 1:51:11.500
Andy Hackman
You said a median factor for non readily recyclables that.
1:51:12.720 --> 1:51:13.680
Elena Bertocci
X times that.
1:51:14.630 --> 1:51:25.560
Elena Bertocci
All right. See, we we would only pay up to X times the cost of recycling the most, the most expensive, readily recyclable material that could be a way of doing it for sure, yeah.
1:51:27.610 --> 1:51:28.230
Brian Beneski
OK. Oh.
1:51:30.400 --> 1:51:33.970
Vanessa Berry
If somebody could just send cardboard boxes of granola bar wrappers to.
1:51:35.780 --> 1:51:39.250
Vanessa Berry
Near programs for people to do that, yes, yeah. Yes they are.
1:51:43.360 --> 1:51:44.10
Vanessa Berry
Not efficient.
1:51:45.600 --> 1:51:49.850
Brian Beneski
But is there any other I did there were some hands up. It looks like they're down. Is there any other?
1:51:51.870 --> 1:51:53.190
Brian Beneski
Discussion from the.
1:51:54.40 --> 1:51:54.920
Brian Beneski
World Wide Web.
1:51:57.630 --> 1:51:59.900
Elena Bertocci
And I say, well, more thing, if we were going to do it like that.
1:52:1.40 --> 1:52:3.730
Elena Bertocci
What's The X times? What's the X?
1:52:4.610 --> 1:52:7.460
Brian Beneski
Marks got market ohh. Abigail.
1:52:9.110 --> 1:52:11.940
Brian Beneski
Yeah, Abigail, because I think her hand was up. Then I'll let Mark in.
1:52:14.290 --> 1:52:14.530
Brian Beneski
Good.
1:52:15.500 --> 1:52:24.200
Sztein, Abigail
Yeah, to the question of what's the axe or maybe just something related to the larger formula that's a part of this discussion. I think it would be.
1:52:24.970 --> 1:52:39.120
Sztein, Abigail
Interesting to also be thinking about the funds that are the fees, the funds that are collected for this program are not just going to municipal reimbursements, they're also going towards infrastructure and education investments.
1:52:40.400 --> 1:52:43.530
Sztein, Abigail
Which I think is really important because if you've got.
1:52:44.980 --> 1:52:59.750
Sztein, Abigail
Difficult to scale or unknown scaling form municipal reimbursements that's going to cut directly into potential infrastructure investments, which as someone else already said is theoretically something that could.
1:53:0.900 --> 1:53:9.390
Sztein, Abigail
Cut back on the costs of collection and transport, and so I think that there is a value in finding balances and kind of.
1:53:10.90 --> 1:53:15.180
Sztein, Abigail
Business certainty so that, Umm, some pieces of this can be planned on.
1:53:16.460 --> 1:53:17.700
Sztein, Abigail
And you know.
1:53:25.630 --> 1:53:26.140
Brian Beneski
OK.
1:53:18.560 --> 1:53:26.670
Sztein, Abigail
That's another one. I think that's a future session, so I'll I'll save the rest of my thoughts around the infrastructure and education investments for a few months from now.
1:53:35.180 --> 1:53:38.460
Brian Beneski
And Mark, you've now had the floor.
1:53:40.350 --> 1:53:55.690
Mark Hudson
Yeah, I'll just echo what Andy was just saying. The more I think about it, just the importance of using you know, average costs as opposed to exact cost I think is critical because the alternative is you start to eaither.
1:53:55.800 --> 1:54:4.970
Mark Hudson
The disincentivize or create the wrong incentives for you know the municipal managers.
1:54:5.550 --> 1:54:13.450
Mark Hudson
I be very careful what I see here. I see my friend Vic Horton from MRRA is on the call so never would suggest that.
1:54:14.160 --> 1:54:44.360
Mark Hudson
Any group would do something that is suboptimal, but the point is that we used to we have worked with MRRA for many years and have Vic has helped us with as we've moved plastic out of Maine and to some of our contractors and if you don't use average cost then you know if the municipality has to be reimbursed for everything or even a net cost then someone like Vic or any municipal manager.
1:54:45.300 --> 1:54:53.230
Mark Hudson
Loses the incentive to make sure they're finding the optimum price outlet and the optimum freight costs.
1:54:54.290 --> 1:55:18.930
Mark Hudson
You could start to just take whatever outlet you can find at whatever freight rate you can find, and just knowing that the producer is ultimately gonna reimburse this for all of it, and that that wouldn't be right either. So I would just echo again what Andy was saying about the importance of establishing some median costs and that's how the reimbursement should work. Thank you.
1:55:19.90 --> 1:55:25.280
Elena Bertocci
Yeah. No rest assured, that's very, very clear in the statute. There's no way that the reimbursement happens, not at median cost.
1:55:26.430 --> 1:55:26.850
Mark Hudson
Thank you.
1:55:26.300 --> 1:55:28.480
Elena Bertocci
That's, you know, way for us to.
1:55:29.640 --> 1:55:30.950
Elena Bertocci
Interpret that differently.
1:55:41.890 --> 1:55:42.380
Brian Beneski
Absence.
1:56:0.970 --> 1:56:1.410
Brian Beneski
Hey.
1:56:2.880 --> 1:56:14.730
Brian Beneski
There's no more prepared discussion topics that we have for the group. OK, so we'll no, it's open to, we'll open to the open to the floor and to the.
1:56:15.570 --> 1:56:23.300
Brian Beneski
Virtual attendees any issues, topics that didn't come up that you'd like to bring up?
1:56:25.870 --> 1:56:31.300
Brian Beneski
I see Sydney was first with her hand. Let her, then. Maybe there's someone from the floor. Will go move that way.
1:56:35.630 --> 1:56:36.700
Brian Beneski
And this being clean.
1:56:50.860 --> 1:56:52.190
Sydney Harris
Hey, all, can you hear me?
1:56:53.760 --> 1:56:54.370
Brian Beneski
Yes.
1:56:54.930 --> 1:56:56.560
Sydney Harris
OK, awesome. Hi again.
1:56:58.770 --> 1:57:8.770
Sydney Harris
So yeah, I wanna return to the topic of reuse as a reimbursable expense for municipalities. I think it's incredibly important to consider.
1:57:9.910 --> 1:57:40.770
Sydney Harris
Making all actual costs of the investments that a municipality spends into reuse, reimbursable not at a median cost, the way recycling would be because it just doesn't really translate to reuse and it's such a nice and sector. And I wanna just acknowledge, I know that technically I should have raised this in the previous meeting and I wasn't able to attend. So I am sorry for breaking procedure there, but I'm grateful for the opportunity to raise the.
1:57:41.640 --> 1:57:44.920
Sydney Harris
Raise the concept and I'm happy to elaborate, but I'm also happy to.
1:57:46.50 --> 1:57:47.960
Sydney Harris
Here, if others have reactions.
1:57:52.460 --> 1:57:52.870
Elena Bertocci
Umm.
1:57:55.280 --> 1:58:17.730
Elena Bertocci
Do you what do you think about a reusable container also being a separate material type? So I was asking Mark before about the oil, the pesticide containers being a separate material type and therefore having a separate set of reimbursable, you know separate median cost for that separate material type. Do you think that be appropriate for a reusable container to have it be a separate material type?
1:58:19.70 --> 1:58:28.460
Sydney Harris
Maybe. Yeah. I mean I think there's a number of ways you could do it. I just think that ultimately you don't wanna try to equate reusable packaging with.
1:58:29.370 --> 1:58:40.540
Sydney Harris
Non reusable packaging because you wanna maximize the incentive for municipalities to switch to reuse or do anything they can to kind of help consumers in residence which to reuse.
1:58:42.30 --> 1:59:3.190
Sydney Harris
So I don't think that precludes making it a separate material type. And then maybe going on median cost that the trouble is there's so many different ways that a muni could spend money to try to support reuse, right? So that could be everything from investing in actual infrastructure in their jurisdiction, like a washing hub to.
1:59:3.540 --> 1:59:6.240
Sydney Harris
Umm, you know, just kind of.
1:59:7.590 --> 1:59:12.840
Sydney Harris
Sort of setting up supportive policies for like businesses to come in who are reuse.
1:59:14.80 --> 1:59:33.960
Sydney Harris
Users. So there's like a whole spectrum of options. You could, you know, for example in a city like Portland, you could implement reusables in your schools. If that's part of your, you know your jurisdiction and your spending. So I mean, there's just a you wanna leave room for like flexibility. And I think that it will look very different place to place.
1:59:34.440 --> 1:59:39.320
Sydney Harris
Uh, so I just would love to see options for any movement.
1:59:40.0 --> 1:59:43.360
Sydney Harris
Because it is a way more desirable outcome on the waste hierarchy.
1:59:46.560 --> 1:59:48.130
Elena Bertocci
So the other place I think of.
1:59:50.220 --> 1:59:53.870
Elena Bertocci
Is in the grants the infrastructure investment.
1:59:54.830 --> 1:59:55.340
Sydney Harris
Oh yeah.
1:59:56.90 --> 1:59:56.400
Sydney Harris
Yeah.
2:0:0.90 --> 2:0:1.200
Elena Bertocci
As opposed to reimburse?
2:0:0.620 --> 2:0:1.210
Sydney Harris
I mean, I think.
2:0:2.350 --> 2:0:7.80
Sydney Harris
I think both. I would like to advocate for both. I think there should be a.
2:0:8.330 --> 2:0:13.710
Sydney Harris
Option like the more options you make, this is a very big leap for municipalities. It's a very new.
2:0:14.440 --> 2:0:44.830
Sydney Harris
Field it's a change from the status quo. It is not how we've been managing materials for the last bazillion decades. I think it's important to allow as many options as possible to, at least for the first plan cycle, but ideally forever to just kind of get more and more and more reuse practices institutionalized. And some municipalities are gonna be set up to apply for a grant and some are gonna be like, that's way too onerous, but I could directly invest in water refilling stations, in public places.
2:0:45.150 --> 2:0:52.880
Sydney Harris
For example, and that's easier for me to do. So you want. You know, you'd like to see both options be available.
2:0:56.370 --> 2:0:56.600
Breton, Mary B
Yep.
2:0:58.390 --> 2:0:59.810
Neal Cowles
I said neither Neal Cowles here.
2:1:0.490 --> 2:1:0.930
Sydney Harris
Hi.
2:1:2.300 --> 2:1:8.560
Neal Cowles
I haven't thought about reuse much, but I was wondering if you could explain how the economics of that work because.
2:1:9.370 --> 2:1:11.140
Neal Cowles
Humbly, you want incentivize.
2:1:11.940 --> 2:1:13.220
Neal Cowles
Producers to.
2:1:14.190 --> 2:1:15.900
Neal Cowles
Use reusable containers.
2:1:16.850 --> 2:1:17.340
Neal Cowles
So.
2:1:16.950 --> 2:1:17.590
Sydney Harris
Umm.
2:1:18.370 --> 2:1:24.560
Neal Cowles
Producer fees would be low, but you also want to incentivize municipalities to.
2:1:25.200 --> 2:1:26.540
Neal Cowles
Accept them handle them.
2:1:27.370 --> 2:1:27.830
Neal Cowles
So.
2:1:27.430 --> 2:1:28.0
Sydney Harris
Umm.
2:1:29.130 --> 2:1:31.90
Neal Cowles
The reimbursement rate is really low.
2:1:32.590 --> 2:1:33.90
Neal Cowles
For that.
2:1:34.270 --> 2:1:38.890
Neal Cowles
But or if it's the costs are high or the same as handling other things.
2:1:39.950 --> 2:1:43.690
Neal Cowles
I don't get learn how how that works if you've spent.
2:1:43.440 --> 2:2:10.460
Sydney Harris
Yeah, so often it's more of the upfront cost of investing in reuse infrastructure that are that can be prohibitive, right. So you need, you need a washing facility if you're going to wash and sanitize and redistribute reusable packaging, right? So if you don't have one, well, that's a building, a building or renting space or, you know, whatever, putting in dishwashers, hiring staff, all of that is a big upfront cost, but a lower ongoing cost.
2:2:10.590 --> 2:2:21.380
Sydney Harris
So I think having investments into infrastructure, as Elaine mentioned, there's a number of ways you can do it that could be coming out of a grant, but I also don't see why a municipality who wanted to like.
2:2:22.560 --> 2:2:46.960
Sydney Harris
Turn the status quo on its head and say we're gonna prioritize reuse in every way that we do things. We're gonna change our procurement policies as a city, we're going to invest in reusables on all our public property. We're going to encourage, we're going to buy a wash hub for all of our local businesses to choose to use for their reusables food service where, like there's so many options. I think the upfront cost would be way less.
2:2:47.780 --> 2:2:50.530
Sydney Harris
Prohibitive if they could be reimbursable so.
2:2:51.350 --> 2:2:59.800
Sydney Harris
That would be a high initial cost and that it would kind of taper off to like ongoing staffing or maintenance overtime.
2:3:5.980 --> 2:3:8.510
Brian Beneski
It will pick Andy, then Tony, so.
2:3:9.150 --> 2:3:20.130
Andy Hackman
And that comment and this is where it gets murky to me on what's what's actually reimbursable versus an infrastructure grant. But this is related to packaging material. So if we're talking about.
2:3:21.490 --> 2:3:34.410
Andy Hackman
Plates and cups we washing stations and drinking fountains with refill stations that's not replacing. And that's not a direct directly related infrastructure and the packaging material, which is the focus of the law, so.
2:3:36.250 --> 2:3:49.910
Andy Hackman
Making that reimbursable would need to be something that relates directly to the packaging material that's paying the fees, because otherwise you get a lot of cross subsidization of active materials paying for things that are completely unrelated to.
2:3:50.720 --> 2:3:53.310
Andy Hackman
There packaging material so.
2:3:54.290 --> 2:4:1.250
Andy Hackman
On either side of things, but particularly I think on the reimbursement side of things, it has to be relatable to the cover product.
2:4:1.980 --> 2:4:7.730
Andy Hackman
Versus just creating, you know, washing stations and municipal public space areas, it's great idea.
2:4:8.510 --> 2:4:18.980
Andy Hackman
There's lots of infrastructure money right now floating around, right, but I know EPA's giving grants for some of the stuff, but for this program, it needs to be definable, too relatable to that packaging material.
2:4:19.640 --> 2:4:21.710
Andy Hackman
Because nobody is selling.
2:4:22.410 --> 2:4:28.260
Andy Hackman
Into the state of Maine packaging material that's going to necessarily utilize a dishwashing station somewhere.
2:4:28.950 --> 2:4:29.630
Andy Hackman
My only point.
2:4:31.820 --> 2:4:32.40
Andy Hackman
So.
2:4:31.560 --> 2:4:34.120
Sydney Harris
I hear that I. Hi, Andy.
2:4:35.10 --> 2:4:35.640
Andy Hackman
Hi Sydney.
2:4:51.470 --> 2:4:51.980
Andy Hackman
But.
2:4:35.520 --> 2:5:4.770
Sydney Harris
I don't necessarily agree. I think, for example, everyone has used the water refill station at the airport. That counts down how many plastic water bottles that has avoided, right? It's directly displacing single use packaging, and I'm not hung up on water refilling stations. That's just a hypothetical example. But the point is you would you just simply have to relate it to displacement of covered materials? Because the point is in the law, the reimbursement structure must incentivize movement and materials up the waste.
2:5:4.840 --> 2:5:26.170
Sydney Harris
Hierarchy. And if we just stop it. Better recycling. We're not really moving very far up that waste hierarchy. We have to get to reduction and reuse. So to build in reduction and reuse to reimbursement instructor as an incentive, you need to say you are now incentivized to invest in ways that you can just reduce or reuse covered packaging materials entirely.
2:5:34.390 --> 2:5:34.690
Sydney Harris
Yeah.
2:5:26.740 --> 2:5:36.450
Andy Hackman
Yeah, but there's no way for that. There's also a relationship between reusable and the fees they're set on that producer, so there's no way for Poland Spring to get credit for.
2:5:37.210 --> 2:5:41.80
Elena Bertocci
Poland Spring bottle isn’t included. OK. Sorry.
2:5:41.330 --> 2:5:49.190
Andy Hackman
But sorry, go ahead, continue spirits bottles. I don't know, but like it, it has to be relatable to the producer.
2:5:50.40 --> 2:5:53.830
Andy Hackman
It's make that's putting their packaging material into the marketplace.
2:5:54.690 --> 2:6:1.940
Andy Hackman
So it's got to be a one to one relationship. If we're going to reimburse that because the producer also needs to be able to get credit.
2:6:2.620 --> 2:6:35.70
Andy Hackman
On the backside, reduced for reducing their fees, right? Because otherwise you're gonna have subsidization that that doesn't reduce any producer's fees unless the municipalities are going to start saying, OK, we're going to scan. I mean, if there's a system that scans your reusable and gives credit to whoever manufacturers that underlying product. So if it's a again assuming, let's assume the bottle bill for a second, it doesn't exist, but if Coca-Cola sells you a reusable bottle and you go to a station.
2:6:35.140 --> 2:6:37.50
Andy Hackman
Before, whenever we fill it with Coca-Cola.
2:6:38.60 --> 2:6:41.820
Andy Hackman
That would count as a reusable infrastructure investment that would.
2:6:44.770 --> 2:6:44.970
Sydney Harris
Yeah.
2:6:42.500 --> 2:6:47.340
Andy Hackman
Relate to packaging that's covered, but general generic.
2:6:48.770 --> 2:7:0.840
Andy Hackman
Stations like that, I mean, I love refill water stations, but that's not there has to be the ability to get credit for it on the producer fees as well. Otherwise this program just mushrooms in perpetuity.
2:7:3.560 --> 2:7:4.970
Elena Bertocci
Coca Cola wouldn't have to pay the second time.
2:7:6.0 --> 2:7:19.280
Elena Bertocci
Right. So the whole would get automatic, right? Because it only putting it on. But right I I mean I've that's different than your point and that's different than your point, yeah. How do you have to count it to to that manufacturer? Right. Well, what I'm saying is I don't think.
2:7:25.570 --> 2:7:25.990
Sydney Harris
Right.
2:7:20.50 --> 2:7:26.80
Elena Bertocci
I don't think you do because I don't think you're ever charging the manufacturer to begin with on that. If it's, if I go and I refill this thing.
2:7:27.590 --> 2:7:28.920
Elena Bertocci
Coca-Cola only sold at once.
2:7:30.740 --> 2:7:37.670
Elena Bertocci
So they're only sending it into the state of Maine once I can refill it a gazillion times. And Coca-Cola is only gonna get one charge.
2:7:38.600 --> 2:7:40.760
Elena Bertocci
Instead of getting charged every time I refill it.
2:7:43.230 --> 2:7:43.880
Elena Bertocci
But that is.
2:7:43.290 --> 2:7:46.230
Sydney Harris
Yeah. I mean the fact is ohh I'm sorry. Go ahead.
2:7:48.330 --> 2:7:50.410
Elena Bertocci
That's I think that's a little different than your point, which is.
2:7:51.860 --> 2:7:53.10
Breton, Mary B
So I think.
2:7:59.350 --> 2:7:59.720
Sydney Harris
Right.
2:7:53.930 --> 2:8:4.920
Elena Bertocci
We use a manufacturers not going to get charged when real reuse happens to begin with, but when you're talking about reuse infrastructure, you're saying you know where does it fit? Does it?
2:8:5.730 --> 2:8:8.180
Elena Bertocci
Fit in the program in terms of are these.
2:8:9.790 --> 2:8:11.120
Elena Bertocci
Covered packages.
2:8:11.910 --> 2:8:12.370
Elena Bertocci
That are.
2:8:13.130 --> 2:8:13.820
Elena Bertocci
Being.
2:8:16.160 --> 2:8:17.930
Andy Hackman
And the infrastructure created for them.
2:8:18.790 --> 2:8:19.180
Andy Hackman
Right.
2:8:19.860 --> 2:8:24.120
Elena Bertocci
So, like a water refilling station isn't a covered product.
2:8:25.100 --> 2:8:35.150
Elena Bertocci
So it wouldn't make sense for infrastructure and education grants from this program to go to a water refilling station because that's not packaging according to this.
2:8:31.550 --> 2:8:35.300
Elena Bertocci
You go to a water refilling station because that's correct, correct?
2:8:36.340 --> 2:8:37.630
Elena Bertocci
And it's not recycling.
2:8:36.480 --> 2:8:40.910
Elena Bertocci
That was your. That's your point. OK, so infrastructure to collect.
2:8:42.80 --> 2:8:50.530
Andy Hackman 
Proctor and Gamble laundry bottles at a municipal transfer station that's different. That would be a reusable structure that would get infrastructure, etcetera.
2:8:51.340 --> 2:8:54.540
Andy Hackman
Just generic water. Refilling stations wouldn't count.
2:8:57.130 --> 2:8:59.250
Brian Beneski
But Tony, you have.
2:9:1.450 --> 2:9:3.690
Tony Smith
I appreciate talking about reuse.
2:9:4.550 --> 2:9:7.320
Tony Smith
But the law is for recycling, correct?
2:9:9.90 --> 2:9:12.210
Tony Smith
And Elena, one of you folks said, well.
2:9:13.380 --> 2:9:19.460
Tony Smith
Tongue in cheek that that's that, that's not recycling. So we're not going to talk about that, but I appreciate talking about it.
2:9:21.350 --> 2:9:21.910
Tony Smith
And.
2:9:23.760 --> 2:9:29.70
Tony Smith
Just remember all these fees that are quote assessed to the producers.
2:9:29.760 --> 2:9:32.370
Tony Smith
Are gonna be ultimately picked up by the consumers.
2:9:35.530 --> 2:9:42.500
Tony Smith
And but again, this this is recycling law, my correct and I appreciate talking reuse.
2:9:43.560 --> 2:9:47.230
Sydney Harris
I mean, the law does specifically mention reuse in multiple places.
2:9:51.650 --> 2:9:52.340
Tony Smith
OK. Thanks.
2:9:51.560 --> 2:9:54.230
Tony Smith
And it says manage not recycle it's.
2:9:55.120 --> 2:9:56.630
Tony Smith
Managed means reuse.
2:9:58.110 --> 2:10:2.40
Elena Bertocci
I'm not going to go into what managed means. I don't wanna talk about what managed means.
2:10:2.570 --> 2:10:5.300
Tony Smith
OK, OK. And I did see I.
2:10:7.120 --> 2:10:8.530
Tony Smith
No, that's OK.
2:10:2.940 --> 2:10:11.290
Elena Bertocci
Yeah, I remember. That's not. I'm not laughing at you, Tony. I'm just. I'm I, I it's been made very clear to me that I'm not sure what the word manage.
2:10:12.180 --> 2:10:19.230
Tony Smith
That’s no problem. And I guess I do see where reuse is under recycling are.
2:10:20.250 --> 2:10:28.460
Tony Smith
But if we're reading managed to mean reuse, that's unless 1771 subsection 8 defines it that way.
2:10:29.540 --> 2:10:31.930
Tony Smith
We're recycling here.
2:10:33.320 --> 2:10:36.510
Tony Smith
And I can't go along with the Sydney’s logic.
2:10:37.630 --> 2:10:39.20
Tony Smith
But I'm not sure of her name.
2:10:40.210 --> 2:10:42.880
Tony Smith
And this is gonna be complicated enough as it is.
2:10:44.720 --> 2:10:57.540
Tony Smith
And I think if we were going to pick up on reuse, we'd have to go back to square one on these real rulemaking meetings and then have meeting 1A, which would be reuse, meeting 1B, meeting reuse.
2:11:1.820 --> 2:11:2.300
Tony Smith
Thank you.
2:11:3.560 --> 2:11:6.80
Andy Hackmand
I agree with you on this one, I.
2:11:7.300 --> 2:11:8.870
Tony Smith
Who? Who'd you agree with Andy?
2:11:8.580 --> 2:11:10.60
Breton, Mary B
I don't agree with you.
2:11:10.590 --> 2:11:11.500
Tony Smith
Oh oh.
2:11:13.220 --> 2:11:13.800
Elena Bertocci
Best friend.
2:11:13.0 --> 2:11:17.640
Tony Smith
I'm sorry, I when I when I hit the floor my I bounced and made noise.
2:11:18.90 --> 2:11:18.970
Group
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
2:11:20.710 --> 2:11:54.680
Vanessa Berry
But I think I think you make a point, Elena. Like if a company sells cereal, for example, and they're they sell it in the bulk section of a food coop and essentially now you don't have to get the box, you don't have to get the plastic lined bag that is contained inside if you're able to use your own container or your own vessel, then essentially they're giving you no packaging. So they wouldn't have to pay into that system if they offered a bulk option. Right. So I think that that's like a good example because that would be something that I would assume would qualify.
2:11:54.750 --> 2:11:59.870
Vanessa Berry
Better and you know paperboard and then some non readily recyclable material as well.
2:12:1.550 --> 2:12:3.710
Vanessa Berry
Just throwing that out there for comparison.
2:12:5.70 --> 2:12:5.790
Elena Bertocci
Well, and I think.
2:12:6.790 --> 2:12:15.490
Elena Bertocci
Neal's point was a good one, too. If you talk about making it a separate material type, which is what I'd thought about in the economics, don't work.
2:12:16.210 --> 2:12:19.0
Elena Bertocci
It just doesn't work. The in and the out doesn't match.
2:12:20.350 --> 2:12:25.40
Elena Bertocci
And you end up charging probably a really high amount for that.
2:12:26.200 --> 2:12:29.330
Elena Bertocci
Reusable container which is not what you'd wanna be doing.
2:12:36.140 --> 2:12:39.100
Sarah Nichols
So forth, but I just want to I guess I.
2:12:41.110 --> 2:12:59.520
Sarah Nichols
Defensive deal that here because the you know, in the in the lawn and in the background information we're supposed to be thinking of ways that we can encourage municipalities to move materials up the hierarchy and, you know, recycling is pretty common way that we're doing that. But we're trying to move that up in the next rung up is reuse. So she's on point in.
2:13:0.300 --> 2:13:3.850
Sarah Nichols
Recommending ways that we could encourage to doing that.
2:13:5.310 --> 2:13:6.390
Sarah Nichols
And while this is, you know.
2:13:7.280 --> 2:13:12.60
Sarah Nichols
Recycling just is one of our primary ways we're handling all this stuff, but it's not necessarily the best way.
2:13:13.980 --> 2:13:19.770
Elena Bertocci
Right. Reuse is definitely sprinkled, like throughout. It's not really clear how.
2:13:20.570 --> 2:13:21.890
Elena Bertocci
It's supposed to be handled.
2:13:26.150 --> 2:13:28.80
Brian Beneski
Tony, you had something to say?
2:13:30.260 --> 2:13:48.940
Tony Smith
Ah yes, the title of the law does specifically say recycling, and if we're going to seriously consider reuse, we need to finish up on the recycling meetings and then step back and go through reuse meetings the same way we've done the recycling. So it's done thoroughly.
2:13:51.10 --> 2:13:52.120
Tony Smith
All set, thank you.
2:13:59.370 --> 2:14:0.590
Brian Beneski
Sydney you're on now.
2:14:2.920 --> 2:14:5.510
Sydney Harris
Sure. Yeah. I mean, I just want to add that.
2:14:6.170 --> 2:14:6.730
Sydney Harris
Uh.
2:14:7.490 --> 2:14:8.560
Sydney Harris
The fact is.
2:14:10.630 --> 2:14:28.740
Sydney Harris
Reuse is going to out compete recycling in pretty much every environmental LCA type of metric that you're gonna look at under this program, it is going to improve your climate outcomes. It's going to improve the.
2:14:29.940 --> 2:14:34.530
Sydney Harris
Ability of the PRO to or this. Excuse me that SO in this case to.
2:14:35.340 --> 2:15:4.570
Sydney Harris
Meet the statutory requirements because and also it will lower the cost because as you all pointed out, they won't really have to pay into the system for packaging that's reused. So the problem is that it's gonna be really, really challenging for the SO to come up with a way that enables reuse place by place, which is often how it's happening. There's a lot of conversation in the CPG sector about how to scale, reuse and that's really important and the SO should be helping with that, of course.
2:15:5.410 --> 2:15:12.340
Sydney Harris
But in the meantime, you're going to need municipalities to be making some upfront investments and some changes and some enabling.
2:15:13.370 --> 2:15:30.120
Sydney Harris
Maneuvers, shall we say, whether that's policy or expenses or both, and the best way to do that is to cover their costs. So I think it's just ultimately a way to help the SO and improve the outcomes of the program.
2:15:32.170 --> 2:15:33.680
Sydney Harris
I don't think it's doable.
2:15:34.360 --> 2:15:43.930
Sydney Harris
I don't think there will be reuse really in this system if the SO has to do it all by itself, I think you need the partnership with municipalities. The best way to honor that partnership is covering their costs.
2:15:44.80 --> 2:15:44.490
Tony Smith
US.
2:15:50.670 --> 2:15:51.520
Brian Beneski
I don't know.
2:15:53.10 --> 2:15:53.420
Tony Smith
So.
2:15:52.590 --> 2:15:55.550
Elena Bertocci
So one thing I thought of. Ohh sorry. Go ahead Tony. Tony.
2:15:56.140 --> 2:16:3.110
Tony Smith
Well, the participation helping the municipalities cover their upfront cost.
2:16:4.490 --> 2:16:12.140
Tony Smith
That'll be coming from the state of Maine. And again, that that's the consumers will be paying those costs.
2:16:14.310 --> 2:16:16.840
Tony Smith
There is a balance, the tipping point.
2:16:25.890 --> 2:16:28.510
Elena Bertocci
So I’m kind of surprised Mark Hudson didn't.
2:16:30.80 --> 2:16:35.510
Breton, Mary B
So I think I feel like this is some mark has been reminding us that we haven't done a good job of including.
2:16:36.610 --> 2:16:40.820
Breton, Mary B
Alternative collection programs throughout this meeting schedule and I think.
2:16:43.680 --> 2:16:45.280
Breton, Mary B
That the other way I can see.
2:16:47.240 --> 2:16:48.250
Group
No, no.
2:16:50.350 --> 2:16:52.650
Elena Bertocci
That's the world telling us this meeting is over, right?
2:16:54.390 --> 2:17:2.850
Elena Bertocci
So I can that's another way I can see really happening is through alternative collection programs. And so I'm wondering.
2:17:6.0 --> 2:17:18.440
Elena Bertocci
I guess my thought hasn't gone any farther than that actually, but if anyone has any thoughts on like on how that might interact with this?
2:17:23.30 --> 2:17:23.840
Tony Smith
Private message.
2:17:19.720 --> 2:17:31.770
Elena Bertocci
would appreciate them. (Andy Hackman) Sure that that probably the best way to account fire properly is to make the producer register a reuse system with the state to an alternative collection program. That's a good thought, (Brian Beneski) yeah.
2:17:34.870 --> 2:17:35.400
Andy Hackman
That way it's.
2:17:33.680 --> 2:17:35.730
Mark Hudson
Sorry about that. It's kind of hard when you're.
2:17:36.400 --> 2:17:41.710
Andy Hackman
Free, free sort of free Willy. That wasn't afraid, but just like it's not a free for all.
2:17:42.590 --> 2:17:43.460
Andy Hackman
In terms of.
2:17:44.640 --> 2:17:51.20
Andy Hackman
Reuse programs that we don't have an understanding how they're connecting back to actual reuse of the cover material.
2:17:53.40 --> 2:17:55.570
Andy Hackman
That ended, Tony, you got a good idea, that's all. I'm sorry.
2:17:57.620 --> 2:17:58.130
Andy Hackman
Park there.
2:17:58.730 --> 2:17:59.400
Tony Smith
Seriously.
2:17:58.470 --> 2:17:59.410
Brian Beneski
OK, great.
2:17:59.640 --> 2:18:0.160
Brian Beneski
Yeah.
2:18:2.510 --> 2:18:9.240
Mark Hudson
Yes, sorry, Elena, kind of hard when you're got duct tape across your mouth and you can't talk so.
2:18:10.470 --> 2:18:13.440
Mark Hudson
Just in response to your question, you know.
2:18:14.100 --> 2:18:21.540
Mark Hudson
From our perspective, we were very focused on recycling into new end uses.
2:18:22.680 --> 2:18:32.430
Mark Hudson
And so I think the discussion or I thought the discussion leading up to your comment was more around.
2:18:33.220 --> 2:18:40.870
Mark Hudson
Reuse as is. So for example taking a bottle, rinsing it out, and then reusing it and.
2:18:41.810 --> 2:19:1.680
Mark Hudson
We do not do that and it's actually related to EPA regulations. There are very stringent regulations on when a container in our industry can be reused and so many times or most times the containers are.
2:19:2.970 --> 2:19:11.550
Mark Hudson
Basically, the only option is to recycle them, so that's why we are very focused on the collection. But then our recycling efforts and we have a.
2:19:12.670 --> 2:19:25.210
Mark Hudson
Specific aspect of our program that is geared towards finding productive end uses and the mechanical recycling of those that plastic into those in uses. So I'm not sure if I'm answering your question.
2:19:25.860 --> 2:19:32.190
Mark Hudson
You know, specific to our interest, but that's why we would be more focused on recycling than on reuse.
2:19:33.610 --> 2:19:34.20
Elena Bertocci
Thank you.
2:19:37.150 --> 2:19:38.450
Brian Beneski
And, uh, Tony?
2:19:43.870 --> 2:19:45.940
Tony Smith
My apologies, I meant to put that down.
2:19:46.360 --> 2:19:47.470
Brian Beneski
Oh, OK.
2:19:54.300 --> 2:20:8.760
Andy Hackman
Is it a go ahead? Let's say there is an example to close loop programs where brands are experimenting with for use. As you probably know and they could register through an alternative collection program. That volume would then be discounted, you know, and it would communicate to.
2:20:9.740 --> 2:20:38.930
Breton, Mary B
The PRO so that that that there's the relationship between what a brand would be paying overall that would be accounted for through closed loop that would come in through alternative collection program and then the rest of the mainline products that may not be in the close the program for the same company. So you're going to have a connection point there where I think my concern it's not I'm not attacking Sydney's idea, just that it needs to be accounted for in some sort of way that relates back to the SO’s obligation.
2:20:39.650 --> 2:20:48.220
Breton, Mary B
And you just providing infrastructure money, amorphously will not accountable in that equation for fees.
2:20:49.10 --> 2:20:50.960
Elena Bertocci
Do you think it's appropriate for?
2:20:54.820 --> 2:21:3.550
Elena Bertocci
Education, infrastructure, money to go towards helping set up a system like that. So say.
2:21:4.740 --> 2:21:7.790
Elena Bertocci
They like there was a, you know, closed loop is door to door.
2:21:8.520 --> 2:21:11.700
Elena Bertocci
But say they did a collection receptacle app, municipalities.
2:21:13.360 --> 2:21:13.900
Elena Bertocci
Umm.
2:21:15.230 --> 2:21:32.780
Elena Bertocci
You know is the full cost of that, is it appropriate for the full cost of that to be on the alternative collection program or should there be a an ability for say some of the education infrastructure money to sort of be granted towards setting up that infrastructure?
2:21:33.580 --> 2:21:49.260
Andy Hackman
Probably a comfort alternative collection program. It's specific to that infrastructure, right? (Elena Bertocci) It's specific to those products. (Andy Hackman) Yeah, I think otherwise you're gonna get somebody's not accessing that program or doesn't have the ability to because of like Mark talked about food contact for example, may not be able to be.
2:21:50.0 --> 2:22:0.140
Andy Hackman
Put through that reuse structure in the same way for the same product, so they're going to subsidize that education. Yeah, I think you would need in the alternative collection program to have an element of.
2:22:0.800 --> 2:22:6.680
Andy Hackman
Because they have to be approved as well, right? So an element of education and that in order for them to be approved.
2:22:7.340 --> 2:22:14.740
Andy Hackman
As and I know Mark's programs gotta, you know, a lot of education out to farmers and agricultural communities. So there is that element built into creating a program like that.
2:22:19.390 --> 2:22:20.940
Brian Beneski
Sydney, you've got your hand up again.
2:22:24.350 --> 2:22:24.710
Brian Beneski
Or.
2:22:22.610 --> 2:22:40.900
Sydney Harris
I do. Thanks. Yeah. I mean, another example is let's just say hypothetically, there's a type of covered packaging that a brand makes reusable and we find that it is constantly ending up in the recycling tree and because consumers aren't used to it being reusable and we're now wasting.
2:22:41.850 --> 2:22:45.570
Sydney Harris
Let's just say it's heavy glass material. I'm making this up.
2:22:47.620 --> 2:22:58.60
Sydney Harris
Then a municipality says we can add a separate collection space or sortation and collection space for that at a transfer station or MRF.
2:22:59.360 --> 2:23:1.290
Sydney Harris
Should that not be a reimbursable cost?
2:23:3.520 --> 2:23:5.690
Sydney Harris
Because it helps the brand achieve reuse.
2:23:6.790 --> 2:23:9.440
Sydney Harris
But it is the municipalities expense to do that at their.
2:23:10.250 --> 2:23:11.420
Sydney Harris
Transfer station or MRF?
2:23:14.620 --> 2:23:17.990
Andy Hackman
The tricky part sitting had a question for me, I don't know.
2:23:18.600 --> 2:23:20.840
Sydney Harris
I don't know the room. I guess I'm thinking aloud.
2:23:21.710 --> 2:23:28.680
Breton, Mary B
So the tricky part would be for that is there's because the state is operating the system and approving the grants.
2:23:29.480 --> 2:23:32.910
Andy Hackman
For that infrastructure. So if the if the municipality.
2:23:33.680 --> 2:23:35.790
Andy Hackman
Chooses to put that infrastructure in place.
2:23:36.550 --> 2:23:43.450
Andy Hackman
It's not the SO that's necessarily picking that it's the apartment that directing that money, right?
2:23:47.970 --> 2:23:48.440
Andy Hackman
Yeah.
2:23:47.680 --> 2:23:50.950
Sydney Harris
But why is that relevant? I guess is my question.
2:23:52.110 --> 2:23:52.750
Andy Hackman
Well, it's it.
2:23:52.190 --> 2:23:53.700
Sydney Harris
Like, isn't the outcome the same?
2:23:56.440 --> 2:24:2.400
Andy Hackman
But there's no relationship then between that material actually getting back to that producer.
2:24:4.940 --> 2:24:8.380
Sydney Harris
Could you not say the same logic applies to everything that gets recycled?
2:24:13.340 --> 2:24:17.130
Andy Hackman
Yeah, but that's in the recycling reimbursement space that's.
2:24:18.60 --> 2:24:24.350
Andy Hackman
Going through manufacturing process to bring it back to virgin material or, you know, back to material that can be reused.
2:24:28.30 --> 2:24:28.380
Sydney Harris
Right.
2:24:28.740 --> 2:24:56.70
Sydney Harris
So I guess I'm just drawing a parallel and saying that municipalities are investing in recycling right now. Ultimately it is the brand who are gonna be responsible for complying with this law that achieves recycling outcomes, so their costs should be covered. That's the logic here that we're operating under. If a municipality makes investments that enable that are frankly simpler in a lot of ways than recycling and have better outcomes and enable the brands to achieve reuse, why should that not also?
2:24:57.250 --> 2:25:1.20
Sydney Harris
Be a reimbursable expense, it doesn't really matter who's running the program.
2:25:1.830 --> 2:25:10.220
Sydney Harris
I think it has to. I totally agree. It has to relate to covered materials. We can't be talking about things that aren't covered under the law, but packaging materials.
2:25:11.190 --> 2:25:33.750
Sydney Harris
Are broadly defined in this law, and I think that there's a lot of opportunity here. I'm just putting in my 2 cents. I think that we don't wanna leave municipalities out of this as an option because they are hugely important in the transition to a reuse centered circular economy and we're missing an opportunity here if we don't allow room for them to assist in that transition.
2:25:44.720 --> 2:25:47.220
Elena Bertocci
Yeah, I think more thoughts on that would be helpful.
2:25:48.50 --> 2:25:51.100
Elena Bertocci
I think it's something we all have to. Yeah, I think I'm better about.
2:25:51.990 --> 2:25:56.680
Elena Bertocci
I am reading right now the investments in education infrastructure section.
2:25:58.540 --> 2:26:8.910
Elena Bertocci
In accordance with the with the provisions of this subsection, blah blah blah, the stewardship organization shall make investments in education and infrastructure that support the recycling of packaging material in the state.
2:26:11.200 --> 2:26:12.700
Elena Bertocci
Though it may be that the.
2:26:15.320 --> 2:26:16.490
Elena Bertocci
That's not where it happens.
2:26:30.10 --> 2:26:38.680
Sydney Harris
Yeah, I mean, I would say all the more reason to let it happen through the reimbursements, I guess if it's not feasible elsewhere through other types of investments.
2:26:41.720 --> 2:26:48.420
Elena Bertocci
Sydney if you have additional thoughts on how the and reimbursements might work, that would be helpful in Sydney for later. Whenever if you have time.
2:26:47.860 --> 2:26:49.160
Sydney Harris
Yeah, totally.
2:26:58.630 --> 2:26:59.200
Brian Beneski
Open the.
2:27:0.20 --> 2:27:1.630
Brian Beneski
Or the world for a.
2:27:2.380 --> 2:27:3.230
Brian Beneski
Other topic.
2:27:7.960 --> 2:27:8.860
Brian Beneski
No, Tony.
2:27:9.80 --> 2:27:14.380
Tony Smith
Nothing I need to bob out. Thank you folks for your patience. This was good.
2:27:16.410 --> 2:27:16.730
Tony Smith
Thanks.
2:27:15.70 --> 2:27:17.10
Brian Beneski
Sure. Thanks Tony. Tony.
2:27:24.130 --> 2:27:26.360
Brian Beneski
David Wright.
2:27:26.670 --> 2:27:27.70
Brian Beneski
So that's.
2:27:29.750 --> 2:27:30.980
Brian Beneski
I'm making you.
2:27:32.620 --> 2:27:33.370
Brian Beneski
A presenter.
2:27:40.870 --> 2:27:41.630
David Wright, Whitefield
Can you hear me?
2:27:42.840 --> 2:27:43.810
Brian Beneski
Yes, David.
2:27:45.880 --> 2:27:46.360
David Wright, Whitefield
Right.
2:27:47.830 --> 2:28:0.110
David Wright, Whitefield
Umm, so where did we end up with the discussion of municipalities being reimbursed for disposal of unrecyclable packaging?
2:28:3.630 --> 2:28:4.430
Elena Bertocci
You're my friend.
2:28:7.110 --> 2:28:15.200
Brian Beneski
So as of now, with the with the idea of moving material up the hierarchy.
2:28:15.700 --> 2:28:16.300
Brian Beneski
Uh.
2:28:18.620 --> 2:28:23.320
Brian Beneski
Disposable disposal costs of not of.
2:28:24.100 --> 2:28:26.970
Brian Beneski
But not really with cycle material is not.
2:28:27.770 --> 2:28:28.400
Brian Beneski
Covered.
2:28:29.780 --> 2:28:33.490
Elena Bertocci
No disposal costs covered no disposal cost covered postal cost, remember?
2:28:33.400 --> 2:28:41.950
David Wright, Whitefield
So if you have a packaging material that's not readily recyclable, then there's no cost to the producer.
2:28:42.780 --> 2:28:47.190
David Wright, Whitefield
From the municipalities for handling that Andy shaking his head. So I'm listening to you.
2:28:48.300 --> 2:28:49.60
David Wright, Whitefield
To understand that.
2:28:47.990 --> 2:28:50.300
Andy Hackman
Producers are still going to pay on that material.
2:28:51.950 --> 2:28:56.220
Andy Hackman
And it would be reimbursed at then that the non really recycle rate.
2:28:59.610 --> 2:29:1.160
Elena Bertocci
The law does.
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Elena Bertocci
Require that producer fees.
2:29:5.570 --> 2:29:12.150
Elena Bertocci
For non readily recyclable materials, be higher than producer fees for readily recyclable, so the producer wouldn't.
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Brian Beneski
The fact that that isn't being reimbursed would not.
2:29:17.90 --> 2:29:26.260
Brian Beneski
Mean that the producer is not responsible in this case. Producer will still be feed. It will be how that fee will actually be.
2:29:27.210 --> 2:29:27.860
Brian Beneski
Determined.
2:29:28.480 --> 2:29:35.930
Vanessa Berry
More into education and infrastructure. (Group) Then you restart policy. Yeah, yeah, comes in. (Elena Bertocci) But it's not going out for reimbursement. So there it is.
2:29:36.840 --> 2:29:46.120
David Wright, Whitefield
So there's still an economic incentive to switch to a legally recyclable material, or to make your packaging.
2:29:47.260 --> 2:29:49.970
David Wright, Whitefield
Were established infrastructure to make packaging level.
2:29:52.510 --> 2:29:54.840
Elena Bertocci
Yes, yes, that's required.
2:29:57.110 --> 2:30:10.800
David Wright, Whitefield
Great. And then the other thing is reuse appears 10 times and that statute, so you should probably look at where appears and figure out how it fits in, but it does not appear in the municipal.
2:30:11.980 --> 2:30:13.10
David Wright, Whitefield
Reimbursement section.
2:30:19.400 --> 2:30:21.150
David Wright, Whitefield
You know, obviously don't have to do that now.
2:30:23.520 --> 2:30:26.0
David Wright, Whitefield
And that's all I have to say. Good to see you guys.
2:30:26.920 --> 2:30:30.970
Brian Beneski
OK. Thanks, Steve. Thanks. If you wanna hang, I'm gonna leave you in as a.
2:30:32.290 --> 2:30:35.350
Brian Beneski
Presenter because Sydney just popped her head up.
2:30:36.650 --> 2:30:37.50
Brian Beneski
Thank you.
2:30:37.450 --> 2:30:40.520
Sydney Harris
Sorry, I did and then I put it down, but whatever.
2:30:41.590 --> 2:30:49.860
Sydney Harris
I just wanna say, yeah, I know it doesn't say the actual word reuse in the reimbursement section, but it does say and I quote.
2:30:50.810 --> 2:31:5.840
Sydney Harris
That the reimbursements must be designed to incentivize municipal waste management activities that represent higher priorities on the solid waste management hierarchy. And to me that is reuse which is explicitly part of the waste management hierarchy.
2:31:6.990 --> 2:31:21.860
Sydney Harris
So that's why I'm not. I didn't come up with this idea out of nowhere. I think it is. I think it is pretty clear to me when I read the law that this is a good place for this discussion. But I will. I will get off my reuse soapbox now.
2:31:23.420 --> 2:31:24.150
Elena Bertocci
Thanks, Sydney.
2:31:34.220 --> 2:32:5.360
Sarah Parmelee
I'm going up with David's comment. I'm still a little bit confused about how there is an economic incentive for packaging producers to make their packaging recyclable. There was little talk before about whether reimbursement was based on packaging that's going into the state or managing that packaging. And if it was on the production packaging. I understand how that would fit in, but if it was based on the management and you were only auditing recycling.
2:32:5.520 --> 2:32:11.90
Sarah Parmelee
How would you include non recyclable or not readily recyclable materials?
2:32:13.930 --> 2:32:21.890
Elena Bertocci
Yeah, I think it makes a lot more sense for it to be on the end. That's what I'm thinking, but I don't. (Sarah Parmelee) Maybe there's a way to make it work the other way. I'm just not seeing it.
2:32:43.930 --> 2:32:45.70
Brian Beneski
Any other?
2:32:47.100 --> 2:32:47.580
Brian Beneski
Thoughts.
2:32:48.660 --> 2:32:49.630
Brian Beneski
Well as well.
2:32:50.920 --> 2:32:51.720
Brian Beneski
Wrap this up.
2:32:57.160 --> 2:33:5.790
Brian Beneski
Being done. I just wanna thank everyone for participating in today's meeting. Like I said we'll have the transcript and the.
2:33:7.670 --> 2:33:15.480
Brian Beneski
Forwarding available in about a week, mentioned the focus meeting. Ohh. That's right. Yeah. So we did actually schedule.
2:33:16.190 --> 2:33:20.510
Brian Beneski
I have scheduled 1/3 focus meeting for this topic.
2:33:23.30 --> 2:33:26.50
Brian Beneski
And the data is February 14th.
2:33:28.520 --> 2:33:37.740
Elena Bertocci
Jessica is making cookies. Yeah. So I think so how we approach the focus look and see what the.
2:33:38.690 --> 2:33:43.60
Elena Bertocci
We were thinking of trying to figure out what are.
2:33:45.110 --> 2:33:51.480
Elena Bertocci
This is what Municipal costs reporting data points should be and get those out to people and then.
2:33:52.960 --> 2:33:54.530
Elena Bertocci
Get torn down on the 14th.
2:33:55.330 --> 2:33:55.730
Brian Beneski
Yeah.
2:33:57.900 --> 2:33:59.880
Elena Bertocci
That's we were hoping to do. We're hoping to do.
2:34:3.890 --> 2:34:19.160
Elena Bertocci
Throw out the throw out the get a list of. This is the data points that we think need to be collected for the collection and get them out to people and then come on the 14th and have you guys all destroy it. Right? (Brian Beneski) So yeah. So we'll basically present that. We'll write up a.
2:34:20.510 --> 2:34:23.560
Brian Beneski
Right up, an outline of that, we send it out and.
2:34:24.440 --> 2:34:26.660
Brian Beneski
Have the focus meeting on that specifically.
2:34:32.80 --> 2:34:48.590
Jessica Nadeau
So a link to that meeting will be in the next newsletter because there's not already a registration link available, right? So you'll have to RSVP as you usually do for a meeting, but that link is not yet available. It will be coming out in the next newsletter.
2:34:50.300 --> 2:34:58.110
Vanessa Berry
That newsletter also include the March meetings. Links. (Jessica Nadeau) Yep, Yep, all the remaining links will be in this next newsletter.
2:35:2.790 --> 2:35:3.130
Jessica Nadeau
Right.
2:35:7.840 --> 2:35:11.450
Brian Beneski
I think we're good. Yeah, we're good. OK, thanks again, everyone.
2:35:16.420 --> 2:35:16.860
Sydney Harris
Thank you.