The Department of Marine
Resources (DMR), Commercial Fishing Safety Council (CFSC) meeting was held
on February 5, 2005 at the Department of Human Services, Central Offices,
Conference Room, 442 Civic Center Drive, Augusta, Maine. CFSC members
attending this meeting included: Robert Baines, Vice Chairman, Robert Odlin,
Kris Boehmer, James Simonitsch, Yvette Alexander, John McMillan, Gary
Anderson and Ann Backus present via conference call. DMR staff attending:
Col. Joseph Fessenden, Major John Fetterman and Cathy Fetterman.
Representing the United States Coast Guard were Capt. Steve Garrity, Ken
Albee and Kevin Plowman.
Vice Chairman, Robert
Baines called the meeting to order around 5:25 p.m.
Approval of Minutes
Motion: (K.
Boehmer, R. Odlin) Unanimous. Motion to approve the minutes of the meeting
held on November 29, 2004, as written
Fishermen’s Forum
K. Boehmer – Asked what
the CFSC was competing with on the time slot at the Forum, Saturday, March 5
at 2:45 to 4 p.m.
Y. Alexander – A lot of
people coming up asking what we are doing - especially since the Northern
Edge sunk, because the fishermen are spending a lot more time off shore.
R. Baines – Let’s
discuss the training program – and go down through the training program.
Then go through the updates of the advisory councils.
R. Baines briefed the
Lobster Advisory Council (LAC) and Maine Lobstermen’s Association (MLA) and
the LAC had pretty strong overall support. Remember both the LAC and MLA
are pretty much on board any way. No one thought it was a bad idea at the
LAC – where and who is going to take the course, along with how it will be
implemented were discussed. The LAC is behind it. With regard to the
implementation, there are a number of questions. MLA is 100% behind it.
There were a number of fishermen who thought it should be required. Good
support from MLA board members.
Zone C council members
were briefed by Terry Stockwell – It was stated that it was not a bad idea,
but none of them wanted to take it. The mindset of many of the lobstermen
is that they don’t want to take the course. When John M came to do the
course, my brother wouldn’t take the course, but he sent his Sternmen. A
lot of guys that have been fishing for 10 – 15 years aren’t going to want to
take it. There will be a core part of the industry that will be supportive
and another part that needs to be convinced.
Why the insurance
companies don’t give you a break on it if you take the course. Get
incentive out there
J. McMillan– They have
hallucinations about what the program is going to be. They feel like they
are going to fail and be embarrassed, but if it is user friendly then it can
be done.
R. Baines - Getting back
to the fisherman’s forum – Have a cracker barrel forum and take different
segments and break them down. Let’s say 6 sections dealing with some safety
issue. One of those sections could be apprentices. 6 safety issues –
question /answer. I think Wayne Hamilton would offer something for door
prizes.
K. Boehmer – They will
have every argument in the book regarding training. If we can get people to
see what the benefits will be, maybe we might not have the issues – and they
might not get embarrassed.
R. Odlin– First we need
to get people in to the room – and then you will get people to participate
in it. Get some prizes.
J. McMillan – I know
Bill Crow would donate a year to the Fisherman’s Voice.
Does that sound like something that would work?
K Plowman – I will
certainly be available for the Forum and the cracker-barrel.
A. Backus – The F/V
Enterprise that had a fire this week, the did all safety drills before they
left New Bedford and 3 out of 4 survived.
Y. Alexander – Also
have some success stories. Arn Heggers got after a boat with regard to
safety equipment and because of that those guys came home.
Y. Alexander – If we
could get the Capt to talk or maybe one of the crewmen is willing to talk
from the Canadian Mist, it might help people understand.
R. Odlin – Maybe we
should use the threat of Mandatory training on all state fisheries.
R. Baines – They are
going to come in mad.
R. Odlin – At the Sea
Urchin Zone council, we discussed on the CFSC and let them know that this is
in the pipeline and it is probably going to happen. All new and apprentices
will have to take a safety course and eventually it will be staggered and at
least one person will have to take the course------ eventually everyone on
board will have to take the course. If we stagger information – starting in
06 January for everyone to take the course, there would be a mad dash - so
we should stagger the mandatory aspect of it. Apprentices and sternmen that
get heir own boat –will be perfect for them to take a course. At the
Fishermen’s Forum – we should give 5 minutes to tell about the safety
council.
J. McMillan– Start off
with the tragedies – talk about seminars that are out there and that the
boat owner has the responsibility.
R. Baines - Class II,
Class III would be a good place to implement this. Would Rule making be the
place. If we titled the forum session “mandatory safety?” Also have the
introduction of the Fishing Safety Council – what we have been talking about
– horror stories. Discuss some of the stories we won and some of the ones we
lost, and then go forward with the cracker barrel. Nothing worse than
talking to half the room.
R. Baines – Have it so
they cannot get their license until they take the course.
K. Boehmer – In order to
get on the waiting list, you need to complete the training course – which
would be required.
R. Baines - let’s not
just look at the lobsterman
J. Fetterman – The sea
urchin program taught us, and before that program was implemented, everyone
was saying – I’m still living I don’t need a course. The legislature had
the stomach for a prerequisite for mandatory training. Overwhelmingly,
everyone who took the course, mostly complaint, but also said they learned
something from it. Target audience – that are out on the edges – and find
that hook that will bring them to the table – mandatory vs. voluntary
struggle. Are we ever going to reach this without making it mandatory? If
you launch a program that starts that program with new entrants – scallop,
sea urchin, lobster. – we are going to need to grandfather it.
J. Simonitsch – The
newcomer will point out something to the old timer that will make them take
notice.
Capt. Garrity – What
about discussing the Sinking of the Northern Edge – Mandatory Safety
Training?
R. Baines – We came
together before the Northern Edge sank and were discussing mandatory safety
training. We should have a summary about what is going to be discussed –
Mandatory training will be happening – who is affected. Where does it
start?
K. Boehmer - There will
be mandatory safety training – as required for licensing – does it affect
you??
R. Odlin - Mandatory
safety training for apprentices and Possibly ALL should be underlined.
R. Baines – We have to
be careful how we should say this. The Commissioner and David are
interested in the apprentice program.
Decided - Mandatory
Safety Training – Is it in your Future – For Forum Booklet
Y. Alexander - A very
good job was done in trying to get a lot of different ports involved when
doing the urchin safety training.
J. Fetterman– Vinalhaven
to Machias – at one point we had 12 locations. If we had 7 students
anywhere – we would take the course to them. The school sent instructors
out there. As the number of registrations dwindled – we went to 4 or 5
locations and were eventually down to Bangor Eastport Portland
K. Boehmer - What would
it take to have the Commissioner support this?
J. McMillan– There is no
one in the legislature that will not support safety training.
K. Boehmer – grab new
entries.
R. Baines – Implement
this training starting with the apprentice program. Get that up and running
this year. That will give us a lot to work on within the next year.
R. Baines – A lot of
fishermen are going to complain, but since it isn’t going to affect them
initially, you won’t have a lot of people complaining because it is
Apprentices at this time
K. Boehmer - What about
having someone be part of the panel and give his story?
R. Baines –I think it
would come better from the Coast Guard. We need to be careful, not to give
our opinion.
J. McMillan– Carey knows
Shawn Rich – he might be willing to do something –
G. Anderson - The
remarks that were made earlier are almost inconceivable. They believe it
couldn’t happen to them - Make another comment about people who have
survived. – like the one who lost his hand by winch, or another by a warp
and went under and another that got caught in his winch – pulled over the
exhaust pipe. One person spent the night in the water. He was found by the
USCG Portland while they were taking care of a dead whale.
Speaking of
instructors, sometimes we find it impossible for an instructor to have
everything we have. As long as there is one or more (no single instructor
could teach a class alone – also being sure that an instructor would show up
is another problem). Need fully certified instructors there. The offices
of risk management would allow us to have any qualified instructor we
wanted. We worked and the system back when I was the safety trainer at
IF&W.
J. McMillan - Team
teaching – We would have a back up for one on land and one on the water. –
you would have three people there – the concept was that not only one person
have everything.
G. Anderson – I worked
closely with Risk Management - we ran a lot of things by them and they were
very influential with the state. A lot of times if I wanted some
specialized piece of equipment and felt it was vital, sometimes they would
put up 70 to 80 % of the cost. Surplus property is another avenue – slide
projectors for instructors. With the annual workshop every year – I could
buy things at surplus property that would only cost $2 or $3 and give them
as surplus favors. Shooting off flares – if we use the white flares – you
will accomplish the same thing with white flares and not scare too many
people. I think that is most of the comments I wrote down. I went to a
cold water and injury survival school in Rhode Island - we did all these
things and tried to put PFD’s on.
A. Backus– Any chance
about using the pool there. Having an emersion suit demonstration with
apprentice lobstermen for the Fisherman’s Forum. If there could be a half
hour demonstration in the pool – at the Samoset.
Y. Alexander - Yes we
can do that, but we need to block time out with Chillola prior to the forum.
J. Fetterman – Jeff
Ciampa and Marine Patrol had pool demonstrations -– not good participation.
R. Baines– I think we
need to concentrate on people getting into the seminar.
J. McMillan - there
would be a section in the cracker barrel that would discuss immersion
suits.
R. Baines – need to pin
down what we are doing and who is going to be doing what. Maybe we should
Title it “Mandatory
safety training?”
J. Fetterman–
Mandatory Safety Training for all
commercial fishermen”
R. Baines – List of
Participants, and maybe could we get David to moderate it – telling who the
safety council is and what we are doing. Would David be willing to do
that???
Two different topics –
Risk and consequence of some vessels – ones that have done it right and ones
that have done it wrong and the importance of safety training. Have John
McMillan talk about the safety training program. A brief overview and what
we are talking about doing. Put together an outline and pass out and review
with them.
J. Fessenden– Give
Cathy a copy and we’ll have it printed.
Give this
Participants List to David– Kevin Plowman from the USCG
Safety Council Rep –
Bob Baines to explain to them what the council is up to.
K. Boehmer – we are
thinking of starting with the apprentice program? Have someone from the
council say where we are going. And what we are planning on doing.
R. Odlin – I don’t think
this is the time to talk to about this.
Gary Anderson – signed
off at 6:38
Capt. Garrity –At the
Forum – maybe we should introduce it and what the primary focus – and USCG
would talk about incidents – then follow with safety training – what action
we are about to take and what the state logically is doing and what we want
to put out as proposal and a timeline.
R. Baines- Who and what
the mission is, and as you said – after the USCG and John M speak - discuss
what this council is working on and where we see it going. Would be happy
to have any council member speak up.
It was decided that at
the form the following would participate:
David Etnier –
Moderator – introduce council members and discuss a little bit about the
Council.
Rob Baines - Is to
then open with what the council has planned (especially the title of the
Forum “Mandatory Training – Is it in your Future.” This may take more than
the 15 minutes allotted.
Cracker Barrel Forum
on Safety:
It was decided that
four topics would be part of this discussion – Flooding, Man Overboard,
Abandon Ship and Firefighting.
Flooding - USCG
Man Overboard – Kris
Boehmer
Abandon Ship – Cary
Gregor
Firefighting – John
McMillan
Robert Baines to then
wrap up – and draw prizes
R. Odlin – I think
immersion suits and EPIRBs are saving lives.
J. McMillan– Give
colored paper out to participants and then send them to their respective
colors. Have the stations already set up.
J. Simonitsch – This
would only allow 15 minutes for four stations.
R. Odlin – The Agenda
for March 5th would require them to kick us out because they
will need to get the room ready.
R. Baines – will try to
get people from the MLA and have them show up.
R. Baines – You need to
have the respected guys within fisheries to speak up. People will listen
more to the respected fishermen – Jon Carters, etc. Drag some people in from
out of state that you know.
Y. Alexander – I
don’t want to speak for Lendall, but if he is around he will do it.
J. Fetterman – On
waivers, if you had a level of experience or documentation – For example,
if you are an apprentice, and you have taken the drill conductor course, the
commissioner could give you a waiver.
R. Odlin – if I can take
this course – I don’t want to have to take the USCG course too.
K. Plowman – I will
forward to the Council what outlines the fishing safety course. I think it
is more than what you are looking for – bigger boats and beyond boundary
lines, etc.
R. Baines – if you take
the USCG course - it should meet the hierarchy.
K. Plowman – It will
have to meet the USCG requirements.
R. Odlin – it is not
going to be an end all.
Do drill instructors
course, and then it would be an end all.
J. Simonitsch – For the
Forum – it appears that we have 5 quarts in a 4 quart bucket – people will
need to move around the table – this will take at least 20 minutes.
R. Baines – When we get
to the cracker barrel – we will need to put a stop watch on - so that we
move to each session
J. Simonitsch – have the
people instructing move from table to table rather than have all the people
move – move instructor instead of all the people.
K. Boehmer - get
company to donate a suit.
Do a ballot vote
through mail.
Motion by R.
Baines: “Recommend to the commissioner of the Department of Marine
Resources to implement a mandatory safety training program that must be a
prerequisite for successfully completing the lobster and crab apprentice
program.
Deadline – Return in 10
days
R. Odlin, seconded
motion - unanimous
Y. Alexander – Talk to
David tomorrow, asking if he would be willing to be the Moderator of the
CFSC. .
Have Microphone and
panel discussion, podium –
Who should we send
prizes to – Send to John McMillan.
K. Boehmer suggested
trying to get survival suits as a prize. Can you get an immersion suit –
Ann?
Yvette stated she might
go in with her. Possibly getting a set of suspenders.
Would Hamilton marine
give gift certificates?
Yvette to let us know
about meeting around between 1 and 2 on Saturday afternoon.
J. Fetterman – Urchin
tending classes - The class was canceled due to lack of registration. In
the 11th hour we had 3 people sign up.
R. Odlin – We made a
motion or regulation that we, as a Sea Urchin Zone Council (SUZC) member ,
would donate the money to cover all the classes.
J. Fetterman - We did
that last year – SUZC Chipped in $2,700 for the shortfall for that program.
At the last council
meeting here – we had Rob say he would do a class, and an Emergency mailing
went out, along with MPO’s posting flyers. – a phone campaign of everyone
on the waiting list. Called each and everyone one of those people, and told
them this was their chance to sign up. In the end we had 1 diver and two
tenders.
R. Baines – where did
that leave them?
J. Fetterman – out in
the cold. – With only three participants, we couldn’t even afford to pay for
the class.
R. Odlin - I thought we
were going to cover the class (SUZC).
J. Fetterman– That was a
one time use of the money. We thought the council had the authority to
recommend to spend the money for that, but the money was committed w/o
asking anybody – in the end George did pay the bill.
R. Odlin – We said we
would be willing to cover the cost – so that we would at least have one a
year. We really weren’t supposed to do that in the beginning?
J. Fetterman - No. We
sent the spreadsheet down for Terry Stockwell and Alan Talbot to take to the
council. The account isn’t solvent . There is so much dedicated out of
that account over the next fiscal year – it was all encumbered.
R. Baines – What is the
plan for next year?
J. Fetterman – class was
cancelled and heard from the 3 people that were registered. Of the three I
have one student being tutored – taking a proctor test.
K. Boehmer – How many
people did you figure that we need to have for a class? Need to have 7
people – commit and pay upfront.
J. Fetterman– We had 32
or 33 temporary licenses issued and – I am surprised we haven’t heard from
them. Now I am up to about 9 people who want to take the class.
R. Odlin – Zone council
could require that urchin tenders have CPR/First Aid – give them the book
and that’s it.
R. Odlin –Will we be
willing to let people test out?
J. Fetterman– The
problem is that the other people on my list can’t test out.
R. Odlin – the book is
very difficult to follow.
J. Fetterman– there are
options for converting to home study. A small group from this council
should look at those options and analyze. Need a long term solution – not a
band aid.
Rob Odlin- John
Fetterman – Joe Fessenden – John McMillan - Kevin Ploughman to be on
subcommittee to discuss Tender/Diver Training
J. Fetterman – The
committee will need to have an outline, along with the current profile, and
see what the risk management stake in it is. Some of the options that I
have already identified, and we could use that as a building block. Every
time I look at it – I seem to run in to a dead end, especially from the
liability stand point and student profile stand point.
J. Fessenden – Tenders
are sliding, but divers are the ones that are really in trouble.
K.Plowman - Looking for
data/regulations on documented vessels - in a smaller format – See handout
for overview of what we discussed.
J. Fetterman - The
State could be more restrictive than the federal restriction. That was
echoed on the documented vs. state vessels - two people fishing side by
side doing the same activity and having different standard.
R. Baines – Looking at
this handout it is extremely complicated – If we came up with a safety
standard for registered vessels – we must be more restrictive.
R. Baines – Have the
subcommittee review and make recommendations.
K. Boehmer – Whey
wouldn’t it be beneficial to have a surveyor involved. It would seem that
Jim Simonitsch might want to be involved.
J. Fetterman – When
looking at the federal regulations – I feel like I need to be a lawyer.
R. Baines – I looked at
the CFR and I felt overwhelmed – come up with something practical.
R. Baines – I tried
working through this myself and I needed someone to help me out. We can
sort it out, but it is not going to be that easy.
K.Plowman - Warm water,
cold water – less than 36’ with number of POB.
R. Baines – I think we
can sit down and discuss what is required for the cost of Maine, Compare
with federal requirements and then design some state regulations and work
with the federal requirements.
J. Fetterman –Does it
make sense that that commercial fishermen shouldn’t have all the necessary
stuff. If we follow the Maine Boat Law – if you are a commercial harvester
on a boat in less than 16’ – what is the appropriate safety equipment?
Set a date this time
this month for the Matrix February 24th at 9:30 a.m. at the MSO
Office
Carey Gregor – Joe
Fessenden – Bob Baines – James Simonitsch – Ann Backus – USCG – Ken Albee –
Kevin Ploughman.
A. Backus - NIOSH/ERC –
National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health/Education and Research
Center – Funding in trouble, will know more when I speak to the Director who
is in Washington tonight as we speak.
A. Backus– I am going to
wait for our director to get back. I sent a letter to Arn – were letters
sent to the House and Senate appropriations committee?
A. Backus – I will do
that – Thank you so much. I’ll get that out for some explanation. Is
appropriate for you guys at the state agency to do anything?
A. Backus – Jennifer
Lincoln came from NIOSH to do that entanglement study. I am going to a
Conference in Malaysia. AMSE. There are some videos that they have – I am
not sure if that video would be appropriate to have, but if I can see if we
can have a tape for DMR
Joe/John – Great.
Set agenda for the next
meeting – Tuesday April 5th – 5 p.m. at the DHS building.
Motion to adjourn at
8:28 from Bob Baines – Rob Odlin seconded.
