Maine Commercial Fishing Safety Council
November 29, 2004 Meeting Minutes
The second meeting of the Department of Marine Resources (DMR), Commercial Fishing Safety Council (CFSC) was held on November 29, 2004 at the Department of Human Services Central Offices Conference Room, 442 Civic Center Drive, Augusta. CFSC members attending this meeting included: L. Blair Pyne, Chairman, Robert Baines, Vice Chairman, Robert Odlin, Secretary, Kris Boehmer, Carey Gregor, John McMillan, Jim Whitten, James Simonitsch, Yvette Alexander, Philip Rosen, and Ann Backus via conference call. DMR staff attending were Deputy Commissioner David Etnier, Colonel Joseph Fessenden, Major John Fetterman, and Cathy Fetterman and representing the United States Coast Guard (USCG) Capt. Stephen Garrity and LCDR Ken Albee. Other attendees included Linda Tremble.
Welcome
Chairman L. Blair Pyne called the meeting to order around 5:15 p.m. Thomas Pottle was unable to attend the meeting and Ann Backus would be joining the meeting via conference call.
1. Approval of minutes (Handout)
Motion: (L. Pyne, K. Boehmer) Unanimous. Motion to approve the minutes of the meeting held on September 29, 2004 as written.
2. Legislation – David Etnier
Deputy Commissioner David Etnier spoke on the submission of legislation for this session, and with regard to the reporting requirements of the council and commissioner. At this time, the report that is due on January 15th will show the council being recently formed and with a small outline of the goals of the council.
Dep. Commissioner Etnier also spoke on the timeframe and process for getting legislation in. At this time all bills by the Department are to be submitted to the Governor by the end of the day on Wednesday, December 1, 2004. The Department has 13 or 14 bills already in. He went on to say that the timeline for submitting bills through the department for this year does not look good. There are, however, a couple of options:
There can be what is called a “governor’s bill” early next year if there is some pressing or emergency issue that must be decided before next summer, and could possibly prevail upon the governor to accept the bill.
He also stated that he has respect for the council and wants to have something worthwhile come out of it. It was his recommendation that things be worked on, and if there were to be changes in Maine law, it should be submitted to the lobster advisory council, DMR advisory council and elsewhere in the commercial and recreational fishing industry. This will help expedite the process by having all on board and speed the process up of when sending to the legislature. Given the time frame – it seems prudent that this council needs a reasonable amount of time to work on recommendations and to make changes to Maine law.
Kris Boehmer– If we propose changes – does it go out to public hearing?
Dep. Commissioner Etnier– Any change made to Maine law must go out to the marine resources committee, then a public hearing. work sessions of the legislature some time in the spring of the year.
3. Fisherman’s Forum
Deputy Commissioner Etnier discussed the opportunity to have a slot at the Fisherman’s Forum. He and Yvette Alexander are on the board of the Fisherman’s Forum. A slot has been reserved for some time during the weekend of the Fisherman’s Forum, which will be held on March 3, 4, and 5. Friday morning or Saturday afternoon is available for an hour and one-half. He felt this would be a good time to introduce the council and gather ideas from industry members. We would need to know tonight what slot and whether this is something this council would like to do.
K. Boehmer: How many more meetings prior to the March Forum will this council have?
L. Pyne: – We should probably meet at least bimonthly and get our feet under us. I think the Fishermen’s Forum is a great idea and possibly have some sort of panel discussion.
Ann Backus via phone conference joined the meeting.
R. Baines: Maybe we could come back to this at the end of the meeting to see where we are.
Dep. Commissioner Etnier: I believe this is a great opportunity to inform the fishing industry, and to let them know we exist and what our statutory authority is and reach out to them for information, or if we have other info to give out. Will need to give Chilola Young of the Fishermen’s Forum the date and times this council chooses. Friday Morning slot – 9 to 10:15 or Saturday afternoon at 2:45 slot
K. Boehmer: The date and time would depend on what we are up against during those same dates and time slots.
Y. Alexander: You can always go out on line to see tentative schedules of the Fishermen’s Forum. The website address is: http://mainefishermensforum.org/
A. Backus: She had the 2:45 slot last year and it worked very well for her. It also allows people to arrive that day to attend.
L. Pyne: Any other brief discussions on the Fishermen’s Forum? Hearing none – let’s move on to the next agenda item.
4. Commercial Diving Safety Class – Major Fetterman
Major Fetterman: We have a situation where individual’s who hold temporary licenses, and have no courses available for them to take. At the present, we have 26 people who have not taken the class that need the class. I have call back numbers for six (6) people who need the dive class in order to go scallop diving on December 1st. None are eligible for a waiver. Do not have enough experience as divers or in the fishery.
It was then opened up for discussion on how to handle these folks. By definition of the law we have many opportunities on how we administer a class.
Maj. Fetterman: There were a couple of suggestions from the last meeting, i.e., converting the course to more of a home study course and allowing people to come in and take the test. Another option is that the college has offered to sponsor a class. The position is that there should only be one class – and can we get all 30 people to attend.
L. Pyne: Is there any institution in the eastern part of the state that can do this? Zone 1 is closed. Zone 2 is still open. It doesn’t make sense to go to SMTC if they are all downeast.
Maj. Fetterman: Location of the class could be any location we pick. Question is what if one or two individuals can’t make that class date.
Col. Fessenden: Criminal Justice Planning offers on line training – pay a fee and go through course and course content – and it is fee based. This may be an option. The ex-deputy commissioner of public safety is now the head of it.
A. Backus: What about Video taped spots – and have pictures as a collection to begin to put on the web.
Maj. Fetterman: A lot of the instructional graphics are contained in the test. I can’t think of any practical component that would offer anything to the course other than enhancing it. If this is a company that could take our text book and scan it in and create a test, it might work. There would be an instruction guide along with a class syllabus. Pretty all inclusive.
A. Backus: Why not schedule a class and then put it on line for any one who cannot take the class and then have it on line for the future.
Col. Fessenden: The question was posed to Deputy Commissioner Etnier about having the department front load the money in order to get this up and running, and once income was produced it could be reimbursed back to the department.
Dept. Commissioner Etnier: Yes, this could essentially happen. We could get all costs back, based on the fee. With that, we might be able to use some up front costs associated to it.
Maj. Fetterman: If it is for profit the companies we choose may want to do it. Is there a potential for a student base in the future? There may not be enough of a profit for this company, if the student base goes down. As the pool of students shrink – we may not get the numbers needed. The SUZC guaranteed the minimum for classes.
L. Pyne: If those tenders are not allowed to tend, we cannot allow divers to go by themselves. That is not acceptable.
Maj. Fetterman: We lost the primary instructors - who are willing to step up to the plate to teach the course. The college is willing to hold the course at one of their community campuses.
R. Odlin: Bangor sounds pretty centrally located.
R. Baines: I would think they would make themselves available if they knew a few months in advance, and then for those who couldn’t make it go with the on-line classes.
Col. Fessenden: The course has been developed and the study material is already there.
L. Pyne: We need to get information on this guy and whether he can put something together and get all the quirks ironed out in 30 days. Have the class by the end of December and the online be the standard after that.
J. McMillan: The two options we discussed were 25 students need classes to be a tender and 6 dive students need a class. Divers go three days and tenders go two days. One of those days is a CPR day. The feasibility of holding a one class date in Bangor some time in December is good, and the other option is looking at some private institution developing a web based program.
J. Whitten: If we can get an instructor we can do it in December – First Aid, CPR and diving safety. Two instructors are out of state now. It is just a matter of finding a qualified instructor.
P. Rosen: Not qualified for what the state offers – they require master instructors.
J. Whitten: You could go under the umbrella of the community college and instruct as a faculty member. We would hire the person as an adjunct instructor.
Maj. Fetterman: Whoever does instructing, must follow the syllabus.
P. Rosen: As a recreational instructor you can teach them recreational - separation between recreational and commercial.
J. McMillan: Integrity of the course is based on the people who have taught it, and have had dive experience and commercial experience. It is more important that they feel comfortable in the class room and content of material and having enough of a personal background to back it up.
J. Whitten: Still have workbooks that follow the curriculum.
L. Pyne: Any sense to contact the Naval Air station – would some one be willing to instruct from their.
Maj. Fetterman: Don’t have a good connection with the industry – great for technical diving – oil rigs, very difficult to relate to the fishery.
Y. Alexander – Maine Maritime Academy with military background might be a place to look. Not sure how much they deal with the community.
Yvette to check on getting a name and seeing if they have someone who could teach the class.
J. Whitten: Having a class by the end of December and having the space available is easy. Possibly having the class run Wednesday - Thursday - Friday.
J. McMillan: Would be wiling to teach CPR, but wouldn’t feel comfortable doing the program.
R. Odlin: Having the class would be the end all, and then having the on line after that.
J. Whitten: The cost was $300 for three day and $200 for two day classes – If we have a group of 20 to 30, we would only need to charge enough to break even. It could be a matter of charging $99 to pay for the instructor.
R. Odlin: Would we only need one day?
K. Boehmer: If we are going to try to entice someone to do an online course, maybe we want to charge a full fee to seed the online course.
J. Whitten: All of the people that we are dealing with are not at the same level, and may be unsure with technology and find it a little cumbersome.
A. Backus: Pretty easy to make a CD and send to people and pretty inexpensive, especially if it were in a PowerPoint format.
L. Pyne: It seems like we have the class and location covered – need instructor. All the parties get together and figure out where we stand and if we can do it within our group – Rob Odlin may be willing to do it.
R. Odlin: You have 26 guys who are working, and if they could work Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and take the class Thursday
Maj. Fetterman: I would caution you that we know how many temp licenses we have, but we don’t know how many will show up. Couldn’t guarantee the class until they actually pay.
J. McMillan: If it is stated that this will be your only opportunity to take this class – it might be more of an incentive to take the class.
R. Odlin: What happens if they can’t take the class? It is brutal to force someone to go dive alone. Urchining doesn’t allow it. Offer the course for mid-December. Historically best time to take the class is mid December.
J. Whitten. December 15, 16, & 17 would work and we could get it advertised and go from there.
Maj. Fetterman: We need to confirm and get location. – confirm with John and get location
A. Backus: We can get something in to the Fisherman’s Voice relatively soon.
L. Pyne: We still don’t know the exact time and location and dates.
R. Odlin: With the list we have we can send information out to those individuals.
Maj. Fetterman: We could request that anyone please notify us of anyone who might need to take this class – send flyers out to the officers to give to the buyers.
R. Odlin: At the same time – put out to bid for an on-line class. Get that going as soon as we can for January. Even if we don’t have it ready – maybe if they sign up and pay and register for the online class as long as they have proof they are registered.
Maj. Fetterman: As long as you register to take that class you can do that.
R. Odlin: The thirty day thing is a waiver until a class is available?
L. Pyne: – Once they take this class it is done. If you license 20 people in December and the chances of doing 20 people next year is slim.
R. Odlin: What would it cost to develop an online course – two days?
J. Whitten: It depends.
R. Odlin: It would seem that they would only need to scan every sheet of the book and develop it.
J. Whitten: It is almost the same as any other course and transferring it from one format to the other.
L. Pyne: Is this an avenue that we are all here for? Getting people together in separate communities – having a web based program, either an information packet or training format? Is it much better hands on than in a group of people rather than clicking on line?
R. Odlin: It is hard enough to teach all they need to know in a class room, than to try and teach it online, especially when it comes to dive tables, etc.
J. McMillan: I believe the initial program was intended for hands on. We need to decide what the value of the training should be.
J. Whitten: What about a blended approach – two days on line and then have one day in the classroom. Learning levels and education levels are all different. They are not all at the same level. Develop for lowest common denominator. They could have the online to prep for it, and then have a one day part that is instructor led to certify. Definitely worth investigating.
Maj. Fetterman: The Task Force laid the ground work to create this council – outreach and community based education was what was intended with volunteer instructors and trained instructors to provide modular type safety training for the industry – diverse industry across the board.
R. Odlin: Scallop dive season is the longest season. Those are the guys that should be taking the course. The guys that are doing scallop diving that need to know this stuff the most.
Col. Fessenden: We developed a non-commercial lobster training course with industry and over 2,000 people took the course – which is required by law. Lobster advisory council made the recommendation. $25 upfront – open study book at home and send in answer sheet to be graded. It was good for the industry and the recreational fishing. Didn’t get in to the safety aspect, however. Even non-commercial diver safety and recreational safety would be useful. This non-commercial lobster program basically dealt with the laws. I believe it was a success. Over 2,000 people took the test and it was pulled off in a couple months. You could only get 4 or 5 wrong.
R. Baines: Agreed it was pretty informative.
R. Odlin: If they don’t have a computer, can we mail it to them? If they don’t have access to the net – is there an option to send it to them. Some people like to work with people, however
J. Whitten: The assessment of online or paper – how are we assuming that the person is authentic? When you have an instructor lead course, you feel that person is really learning. If safety is the important issue here, as opposed to making it convenient – there is a safety issue – assuming someone is legitimate.
J. McMillan: Plan on scheduling class December 15, 16, & 17.
L. Pyne: Important to get this going and concentrate on a class – middle or end of December get a class room.
R. Odlin: That covers 2004, but the guys in 2005 won’t be legal.
Maj. Fetterman: There will be a couple that won’t show up and won’t be legal for 2005.
R. Odlin: Send the money to sign up for a class and let them go w/o having taken the class. Either goes online, two days at home and one day at class.
Col. Fessenden: This is about safety and we have stretched this as far as we can. Let’s try to get this class done.
R. Odlin: Tenders may be able to have online rather than Divers.
J. Simonitsch: Can we let everything go in to January and catch 2004 and 2005 together and take the money in 2004 and hit them altogether once. Regardless of the people who don’t show up. Maybe this would bail out a rush program and also avoid the 2004 carryover.
Maj. Fetterman: it would certainly help the tender situation. It would hold up the divers (6).
A. Backus: – We can get this into Commercial Fisheries News in January - not a problem.
J. McMillan: Give more time to advertise.
Maj. Fetterman: Need to certify six guys for diver course.
Kris – The 6 might have to take it on the chin.
Col. Fessenden – The department will honor a 2005 license beginning December 15, 2004 – which would get them through the 2004 license year and then be good for 2005.
Maj. Fetterman: Keep in mind – just because we have six names, doesn’t mean we actually have six people.
L. Pyne: Do we stay with the December dates of 15, 16 & 17. Plan on getting that done the middle of December for the remaining part 04 and 05.
R. Odlin: You are planning on getting the 6 divers and the remaining tenders taken care of for life.
L. Pyne: Impress upon them that this is a one shot deal.
Col. Fessenden: There may be other hand harvesting fisheries.
5. Community Based Instructor Certification/Qualification
J. McMillan: AMSEA group also has proposals like this. (See hand out) Basic Safety Training for Commercial Fishermen Program (Proposed). Most could do very well on the test. STCW – 5 year refresher – date of expiration would be 5 years. (Discussion and Review of handout). These would be basic guidelines to teach basic safety program. Any questions or additions to be added to this?
R. Odlin: This course has all three Basics – and in-water all in one day. Thinking about requiring this?
L. Pyne: Is the in the water training in Saltwater?
J. McMillan: Normally done in a pool
R. Odlin: This may be difficult for some older individuals.
J. McMillan: This is not mandatory – and maybe just put them in the suit and have them become familiar with the water and not force them to do anything more. This would not be a pass or fail. The first training outline – the mental aspect is important and the reduction of panic comes into play. Leave with knowledge they need.
L. Pyne: Any further discussions on this?
R. Baines – 15 or 20 guys signed up for this test, and all thought this was worthwhile. I think this council should embrace something like this. The tricky part is how and who should take this…..The guy right out of high school or the 70 year old guy. Not going to be an easy thing to accomplish however.
L. Pyne: One of the things we can do, and require, is for new incoming license holders to take this test.
Col. Fessenden: – The apprentice law has an Educational course component already there. We have been unable to come up with an agreement for new apprentices. We don’t have a safety component to go along with the 2 years and 1,000 hours. An educational and safety component for that program would be worthwhile. The law allows for it. Whether this is too complicated for an 8 year old, I don’t know.
R. Baines: Maybe this course could be done upon completion of the apprentice program rather than at the beginning.
Col. Fessenden: This may be something to bounce off the fishermen at the Fishermen’s Forum
5. Community Based Instructor Certification/Qualification (#6 also included within this discussion)
L. Pyne: The first recommendation we should put out is that anyone in the apprentice program should do something along the lines of what was presented here tonight, and then all new licensees into the industry should be required to as well. We could then get going on the volunteer program.
R. Baines: Limited success on the volunteer program. On a volunteer basis will have a very limited percentage?
L. Pyne: Start with a volunteer basis and then go to mandatory upon license renewal.
R. Baines: With everything that goes on on deck, maybe there should be a seaman’s license required too.
K. Boehmer: If you are going to take a sternman, you should have to take this course.
R. Baines: Great idea to require apprentices.
R. Baines: It is important to recognize the importance of this.
Y. Alexander –Lendall took John’s course last summer – a lot of the people were not necessarily young people. It is nice to have the crew know as well – not just the license holder. Ultimately you want to see everyone home.
Col. Fessenden: If you are going to take someone with you (crew) you should have to have some sort of safety requirement.
R. Baines: If you have Class II or III license you should need to take the course. If you go outside three miles you have to take many other classes.
K. Boehmer: Everyone knows these are requirements, but they are just signing logs and not wanting to do the training. I would guess 1/3 of the people are not doing the training that is required.
C. Gregor: How are you going to address different fishermen---- like the draggers?
Col. Fessenden: David suggested earlier –Bob Baines is on the lobster advisory council and he could take back what has been discussed to the Lobster Advisory Council to see if that is something they are interested in. Have lobster advisory council and scallop advisory council get back to us.
R. Baines: Needs to be incremental.
R. Odlin: How far is this council going to go – because of the lobstermen – are we going to try and work on the 80 foot draggers?
R. Baines: Some of this is already in the federal requirements – need to focus on the inshore boats and see where that takes us.
It was suggested that this be put on the Agenda for the various councils:
DMR Advisory Council - L. Blair Payne.
Sea Urchin Zone Council - Rob Odlin –
Lobster Advisory Council - Bob Baines
Philip Rosen – Scallop Advisory Council
J. Simonitsch: Two national groups in Maine – they can be made aware of this and should be encouraged to participate with this. The deal with the people in the industry. Perhaps through one of the groups we can encourage participation. Will try to promote this.
7. Review of number of licenses held vs. number of boats
Col. Fessenden: DMR has around 20,000 commercial licenses – The number of boats in the state is a manageable number. We have the breakdown of the different vessels. Most common size vessel is 26 to 40 feet. We may affect 6,000 or 7,000 fishermen that may have multiple licenses. Number of them have gone through some training. If we get in to apprentice licenses, could be a manageable situation.
R. Odlin: It is a manageable number and we could go to people within the community and recruit to be instructors. We can go back to instructor qualifications. Your peers are going to be teaching you stuff that they learn. We could put through 6,000 people a couple years down the road.
A. Backus: Are there a couple of peninsulas that are concerned about safety already?
R. Odlin: Possibly in Stonington.
J. McMillan: Phippsburg – Five Islands.
C. Gregor: Jonesport Beals area.
R. Odlin: How many guys have you taught?
J. McMillan: Taught 800 of them so far.
K. Boehmer: Some may have been crewmen not all boat owners.
Y. Alexander: Cundy’s Harbor would be a good place to have a good turn out. There are a couple of wharves and beaches down there. All the different size boats and fisheries down there.
J. Simonitsch: As we talk about Cundy’s Harbor - let’s not forget to the westard and Portland. Let’s consider one of them down there.
Col. Fessenden: We have a very strong lobster advisory council. Everyone shows up from every zone. Very well represented and very interested in safety from Zone A all the way down to Zone G.
R. Baines: Lobster industry is probably 85% of this.
A. Backus: One option would be to have a train the trainer session so that we would be training individuals from different areas. Is that your objective?
J. McMillan: There would have to be more people involved than just one or two people. AMSEA came in and did an instructor program, and did about 15 people.
R. Odlin: Were they trained to teach this course?
J. McMillan: Yes. This is the AMSEA course.
A. Backus: Would have to follow guidelines.
J. Simonitsch: What would be the commitment – to take your course and be an instructor?
J. McMillan: USCG coast guard instructor with resume, outline, and a manual and get approval in that district. It would need to have an instructor training program, and be approved by the State not me.
J. Simonitsch: Are you talking about a two day course?
C. Gregor: I think the 5 day course is too long.
L. Pyne: What would you conceive having – would you break down by area or Zone. Each lobster zone could have an instructor?
R. Odlin: Must need at least two per zone.
J. McMillan: Get people who understand the course and have a passion for safety. Have an auditing process and monitor if they are following the guidelines. They will need to be approved by the State.
Col. Fessenden: Does Alaska require a safety course to get a commercial fishing license?
A. Backus: Stated she would find out what they require.
Col. Fessenden: Is there a state that requires some sort of safety requirement before getting a commercial fishing license?
J. McMillan: They were looking at our safety requirements in 96 and 97, and the only safety requirement was the drill instructors course.
Col. Fessenden: Voluntary vs. mandatory.
J. McMillan: AMSEA is really focusing on the schools and carrying it on.
Col. Fessenden: I think it is a great approach. Target communities that have a fishing community.
R. Odlin: Is it possible to add this to the course – make sure the federal requirement is also a component of the course.
L. Pyne: If we are going to do an apprentice course – it is licensed based not registered or documented vessel based.
K. Boehmer: Have the course cover the drill instructors portion too – it will cover all.
Col. Fessenden: Is it too complicated for a young person to do it? Any 16 or 17 year olds to take it?
P. Rosen: There were a few that were in their teens, and they did okay.
L. Pyne: We will need 15 to 20 instructors.
Col. Fessenden: Ask for Volunteers from the councils.
R. Baines: – I support this wholeheartedly, but would not feel comfortable teaching the class. Don’t necessarily have to have a fishing background. Have a more professional approach as opposed to the average fisherman.
L. Pyne: The next step is to take this to the councils. Each segment of the industry is going to fine tune this and then come back at the next meeting and may have some recommendations from the councils. Brainstorm with council members – you may find individuals to do this. Once we get this squared away, we may want to make it mandatory that the apprentice program have some course they are going to take – certainly along these lines. Then have something to present.
A. Backus: Could have an immersion suit drill at the Forum that would be interesting.
L. Pyne: Shooting off flairs, etc. I don’t know if the Samoset would like that.
A. Backus: I have done the immersion suit tests in the local swimming pool. Just to teach them a few basics.
J. McMillan: Arn spoke about having 8 different subjects and have a panel – flares, drills, and hypothermia – get together to do a panel discussion that would have been of interest. Discuss the importance of training and analyze what the group had to say.
L. Pyne: At the forum get the individuals interested in safety.
J. McMillan: Vessel entrapment and rushing water and how to pull themselves hand over hand, etc. Sit people in a little chair and have something like this. Is this something we could do at the forum?
8. Safety gear requirements for state registered fishing vessels compared to fed. Documented vessels
R. Baines – Went through the Federal Requirements booklet and felt they were very complicated to understand. On Page 2 – is it saying that all state registered boats have to abide by the areas they fish?
Col. Fessenden: The way I understand this, any boat used for commercial fishing in state waters, that boat has to comply with the requirements of this book. Different for state waters only, federal waters and boundary line.
Col. Fessenden: MPO’s have no jurisdiction or authority to enforce these requirements.
R. Baines: There is no real reason to rewrite anything if we are already compliant with this.
K. Boehmer: Aren’t there certain things that you have to do within the classification and size.
R. Baines: I think it would be very important to make a recommendation of this council that the state should have basic requirements and mirror what is in this book and should be a state requirement and give MPO’s the authority to enforce this.
Motion by R. Baines – The State of Maine should have basic requirements that either will mirror the Code of Federal Safety Regulations – and should be a state requirement – also giving Marine Patrol Officer’s the authority to enforce the new safety regulations imposed on Commercially Licensed Fishing vessels.
Seconded by: L. Blair Pyne, Unanimous
Col. Fessenden: Have this group identify half dozen of real critical pieces of equipment and give to the legislature in order to give us the authority to enforce.
R. Baines: Have a small subcommittee to identify this. And work on what is important for Maine State waters and come up with a fairly simplistic guideline.
Capt. Garrity – If all the requirements apply, and then you make only half of them apply under state authority, it could be a real problem. It should be all or nothing. If the state comes out with one way of doing things and USCG says you have to have all of these – it could be a problem.
K. Albee: Applicability of all commercial vessels, size, locations and the list goes on and on. Might be useful to build matrix on state vs. federal vessels and use that tool that would require state requirements. Start with something.
Col. Fessenden: Identify requirements for state waters only
Maj. Fetterman: The big problem is outside three miles, you still have state registered vessels beside documented vessels and they have very different requirements. We don’t have authority to inspect. The big debate in the task force was they wanted some parity. If it is a documented vessel vs. state registered vessel they wanted the same standard. It was almost unanimously across the board that they wanted to apply standards across the board.
Adopt matrix of what we should pull out of those CFR's and adopt as state law.
A. Backus: Should look at the safety index system – only required by documented vessels fishing beyond boundary line – 36’.
Y. Alexander: Even if you are fishing outside of three miles you don’t have to go along with federal law?
K. Albee: It is all based on size, area, documented, undocumented, state registered, etc. whether certain regulations apply. If we were to build a matrix first going with life saving-- PFD’s primary and secondary ------- bilge alarms might get complicated. Look at life saving equipment. Difference in life rings, sizes, fixed systems or buoyant apparatus, life rafts. Take a look at the different applicability and make a decision of types of fishing and distance.
Col. Fessenden – Our safety laws are recreational only. I don’t think it is prudent to apply recreational fishing safety laws to commercial fishing.
L. Pyne: Why can’t we adopt the most stringent laws?
Capt. Garrity – There are already a lot of restrictions on the fishing community as whole. I don’t think commercial fishing industry smiles on more restriction.
L. Pyne: We are promoting safety as a council – whether it is a pain or not.
Capt. Garrity – I think the state can go to a higher restriction and comply with the federal requirements.
Maj. Fetterman: As you see the safety requirements – it is possible to capture the essence of these CFR’s and cut through the complicated language - safety requirements are pretty straightforward. This makes sense. Is there a way you can roll that in to Maine law to simply identify those requirement.
Capt. Garrity – I bet you could – This was probably written by bureaucrats and lawyers. If fishermen were to just apply common sense, and maybe that’s the avenue to continue on. This is an area that might be more fruitful. A more comprehensive and thoughtful review of these things and could possibly spread from state to state. Make less complicated these set of regulations.
K. Boehmer: There is a cost involved with safety equipment – like an EPIRB and a lift raft.
R. Baines: There are many things in the CFR that a lot of boats aren’t carrying and there are a lot of things that should be in the state law. Bilge alarms are missing and should be a state law. Certain things should be part of state law
R. Baines: What is missing from the state boats that are not covered by the CFR. How far they fish offshore and size and range, etc..
Subcommittee to review Federal Laws vs. State Laws: Ann Backus, Bob Baines, Joe Fessenden and Carey Gregor, along with USCG Ken Albee – to meet at Marine Safety Office in Portland – some time in January 2005.
Maj. Fetterman: sell it to the fisheries – if they had a USCG vessel inspection stickers, which would set them up for not being boarded over and over. Use it as a sales pitch – if you, as a fishermen, and you are safety conscious, then invite the Marine Safety Office to come and do an inspection and then you will know that you are not going to be inspected over and over and it would stop the intrusion on their fishing time and constantly being boarded.
L. Pyne: It is better to be done at the dock then in the middle of the day.
J. McMillan: What does the vessel need - what does the person need. If you follow a guideline, and look at specifications that they are going to need.
J. Simonitsch: Have four of five surveyors participate in Maine. It might be an effort to bring them in and seek their participation, but they might see more boats in a year’s time than most individuals.
9. Discussion of Current Issues
K. Boehmer: Have something after each meeting to discuss current issues – The story about the individual that caught their primary hand and lost most of his hand. I’d like to have a discussion each meeting with regard to what has gone on.
A. Backus: Has a fairly large poster with regard to that story, and have written on that topic at least once a year.
K. Boehmer: This situation alone is enough that people need to tell their helpers what not to do.
A. Backus: If people have incidents that they want to research and write about, I would be happy to do that and get into Commercial Fisheries News.
Col. Fessenden: Lost a couple boats coming from Maine to Massachusetts. People are starting to ask questions. After those issues get resolved, if the USCG could bring to this council the results of these accidents – we could review as a council.
K. Albee: Any investigation that is closed we can discuss.
Col. Fessenden: Anything that has happened during the investigation and lessons learned – would be beneficial to pass on to the council.
L. Pyne: Those sort of procedures that come down to what they should do at night.
L. Pyne: The crab fishery in Alaska had similar problems.
Y. Alexander: The higher the regulatory restrictions, the higher the burden goes on to the fishermen - and therefore they won’t spend the money on the safety equipment due to the regulatory burdens.
J. Simonitsch: Used to be on mailing list for USCG – We haven’t gotten safety bulletins for many years.
Capt. Garrity – After 911 we are so involved with homeland security and are unable to do that any longer. We must have people on homeland security enforcement. All across the country that word is out. My presence here speaks to the desire to ensure that Maine is looked out for in this particular area. Arn has shifted from fishing vessel safety to homeland security. Gary Moores is still working on that. I understand it is important. If we can get bulletins back out, we certainly will try.
Col. Fessenden: We certainly appreciate the support the Coast Guard has given us, and are very glad you can come and attend and participate in these meetings.
R. Odlin: Usually there is an update in the National Update.
L. Pyne: Do we want to discuss the Fishermen’s Forum? As far as getting a crowd – Saturday is a better day. Saturday at 2:45 p.m.
R. Baines: What would be the format we would want to do?
L. Pyne: We have at least another meeting before the forum.
PUT ON AGENDA - Discuss what type of format for Forum – feed back of councils on training program.
Question was asked what were the top four casualties. Capt Garrity and Ken Albee stated: Flooding, sinking and capsizing, and man overboard are the top 4 federal casualties.
The next meeting of the Council is scheduled for February 3rd at 5 pm at the DHS Conference Room (same location)
Cary Gregor, Bob Baines, Joe Fessenden, Ken Albee and Ann Backus to meet the middle of January for the Matrix Meeting.
The meeting adjourned at 8:15 p.m.
Items bolded (not italicized) are items that need to be done before or to be discussed at the next
