Department of Marine Resources
Lobster Advisory Council Meeting Minutes
Natural Resources Service Center
6 Beech Street, Hallowell
March 25, 2009 5:00 pm
A meeting of the Department of Marine Resources’ Lobster Advisory Council was held on this date at the Natural Resources Service Center, 6 Beech Street, Hallowell, Maine. Council members attending this meeting included: Chair Bob Baines (Non-Zone Lobsterman), John Drouin (Zone A), Jon Carter (Zone B), Dan MacDonald (Zone C), Ted Hoskins (General Public Member), Gerry Cushman (Zone D), Dana Rice, (Eastern Dealer), Larry Knapp (Zone E), Jeff Putnam (Zone F), Jim Henderson (Zone G), Nick Lemieux (Non-Zone Lobsterman) and Peter McAleney (Western Dealer Member). Council members not attending this meeting included: Elliott Thomas (Non-Zone Lobsterman.) Commissioner George Lapointe, Deputy Commissioner David Etnier, Deirdre Gilbert, Sarah Cotnoir, Colonel Joe Fessenden, Carl Wilson, Melissa Smith, Kathleen Reardon and Donna Hall of the Department of Marine Resources were also present. Others present were: David Cousens, Patrice McCarron, Dana Dow, Stephen Brooks, Annie Tselikis, Darryl Grover, Gina LeDuc, John Higgins, Stephen Robbins III, Stephen Sutela, Wayne Ames, Peter Ames, Daniel Hildreth, Bill Doane, Lyman Kennedy, Senator Dennis Damon, Representative Bruce MacDonald, and Dane Somers from the Maine Lobster Promotion Council.
The meeting convened at 5:00 p.m.
1. Welcome and Review of Agenda
Chairman Bob Baines welcomed a new member to the Lobster Advisory Council – Nick Lemieux representing the Downeast Non-Zone Lobsterman seat.
2. Election of Officers
MOTION: (G. Cushman and J. Carter) To move the slate of Officers. Unanimous
3. Approval of Minutes (February 11, 2009)
MOTION: (T. Hoskins and J. Henderson) To accept the minutes of the February 11, 2009 meeting as written. Unanimous
4. New Business
a. Update on Tiered License System Sub-Committee
The Lobster Advisory Council Chairman Bob Baines reported that the Sub-Committee on developing a Tiered License System met on Thursday morning at the Fishermen’s Forum. We are looking at a couple of different things; landings and income. We had a Certified Public Accountant come to the meeting to answer questions that we had about certifying income from commercial fishing, etc. We’ve had discussions about the income coming from all commercial fishing; it would be the fishermen’s responsibility for providing information to meet the criteria; possibly in the form of an affidavit. There are still a lot of details that need to be worked out before we can present something back to the Lobster Advisory Council. Bob said developing criteria to determine who is a full-timer vs. who is a part-timer is challenging; the Sub-Committee will meet again before the next LAC.
b. Continued Discussion on Comprehensive Effort Reduction Plan
George said this is a work in progress; some of the numbers I threw out last time people have said that means a 50% reduction. People have discussed a reduction because of the whale issue and because of the economic situation. We can take as long as we want, but there is risk in that. Some folks are saying they can make money if they were below 800 traps. Bob Baines asked does it put us at risk to go to the Take Reduction Team meeting talking no trap reduction, only endlines; won’t we be right back here talking a trap reduction. George said we will be dealing with the outcome of the stock assessment and from the perspective of whales we have to talk ropes not whales; if there is a trap reduction we will take credit for the rope reduction. John Drouin said he understands there is outside pressures; I’m looking for support from State of Maine. Are we trying to set ourselves up for a trap reduction or is there going to be a trap reduction? George said that is a discussion that the State of Maine needs to have; that is why we started to have these discussions. John asked if the Tiered License Sub-Committee comes up with a plan and industry doesn’t support it, what are you going to do. George said I think it is something we should consider but if there are not enough people who support it we will not get it through the Legislature. Nick Lemieux asked from an economic standpoint - won’t it work itself out? George said there are biological risks with that, people have said it’s not the way they want to do it; people want active discussion.
Steve asked why you disregarded a freeze on lobster licenses. George said we have discussed that and it was rejected; people have said they want to allow students. Bob said the Tiered License Sub-Committee has discussed leaving the entry system intact just the way it is. George said the Sub-Committee has work to do; at some point you have to say is it worth moving on or not. Gerry asked when the Lobster Stock Assessment will be done. George said it has been finished but not released yet. Gerry said he thinks we can take the comprehensive effort reduction plan off the agenda for awhile. Bob said he would like to have sub-committee and this council work together and then come up with a comprehensive plan.
Darryl Grover asked can you explain how this would work; are you going to take those tags and give them to an apprentice. Bob said what we are talking about is if you’re fishing 800 traps then you would qualify for the top tier. The entry system would stay the same; people that came in through the entry system would be grandfathered. John Drouin said this is still a big if; the Sub-Committee still does not have a clue what we are doing. Larry Knapp asked why isn’t the in and out ratio allowed to work, that in itself should thin this down; this is very complicated and everyone I talk to hates it. Jon Carter said we all took traps out of the water before; if we are faced with a trap limit I don’t want to take traps out and the other guy not have to; this is in the best interest of the full-time fishermen. Gerry said this is why we are not flat lining; licenses are going down but tags are not - that’s what goes in the water. Jeff Putnam asked if the Atlantic Sates Marine Fisheries Council can levy a reduction in state waters on us. George said I was talking in the context of the stock assessment.
Dana Rice said I keep hearing a lot of people who are in favor of a trap reduction; Penobscot Bay east is not in favor. George said that is not what the effort reduction survey said. Carl Wilson said that one of the questions on survey was - are you concerned about the number of traps fished in your area; it was pretty much split down the middle; you can say it either way. Dana said this is a difficult conversation; everybody seems interested in a trap reduction as long as it’s the other guy. Bob said there are a number of people interested in a trap reduction, but by the will of the industry, it will be difficult.
Dana Dow said I have never understood if you have 3.6 million tags and you want to reduce to 2.4 million tags over 10 years then you just reduce the tags; reduce a set amount ever year. Bob said last time we did this I took 500 traps out of the water; a lot of people did. Dana Dow said it’s easy, just use a percentage proportional reduction even if there will be building up. Gerry said a lot of people want to stay at that top number. Dana said people that are just waiting to see the lobster industry takes a dive. Jon said there is another way; a lot of people that buy 800 tags don’t even set a trap, you’re not penalizing the full time fishermen, the only one being penalized is the guy with 800. George said people agree with you broadly.
c. Funding for Department of Marine Resources Monitoring Programs
Gerry Cushman said that Carl Wilson had asked the Lobster Research, Education & Development Board for money to help fund his monitoring programs; these are on-going programs and we need to figure out how to fund them. David Etnier said the feds did not come forward with money to support these programs and we will not be receiving any money next year; we are not sure what the State is going to do with these programs. George said that the work that Carl does with the lobster assessment is how we’ve gotten where we are today.
Larry asked how much money you are talking? Carl said that the total cost is $600,000 per year. Larry asked could you sell the benefit of what you’re doing by selling more license plates earmarked to that money. Carl said that would be a shift in what the license plate board has been doing. Carl said the RED Board cannot do it every year; we need to come up with $500K per year. Jon said I cannot imagine if we went out to industry there would be an outcry. Larry said I had a discussion with local businessman and he felt it is important to his business; possibly get business to donate money.
Bob asked historically where has the money come from? Carl said we have received funding (typically less than $100 K per year) from federal appropriations, and he has also received grant funds for the ventless trap survey.
Dana Rice said if we take this back to our last conversation how about a graduated tag fee-generate money from the top tier. Gerry said I don’t discourage that idea; or how about a penny a pound – others said they would be willing to do that. Dana said I have floated that idea before. Jon said I think that is a good idea to be assessed so much a pound. Carl said that landings program has some concerns about this. Gerry said Heidi Bray came up with some issues with enforcement. Pete McAleney said it is obvious that State of Maine is not going to help us out; we have to do it dollars per dealer. I would get that back through sales; I’m all for us putting that money in. John said we have to be careful on how we do things. Dana said we’ve had all these conversations; there is a lot of dynamics going on right now we need to have this conversation. Gerry asked should we set up a sub-committee to look into these ideas. Bob asked the LAC if there was a consensus to support our science programs. The members of the LAC responded that there was consensus to support.
MOTION: (J. Carter and P. McAleney) To form a sub-committee to explore Research and Science Program funding. The members are: Dana Rice, Gerry Cushman, Bob Baines, Pete McAleney and the Department of Marine Resources. Unanimous
d. Whale Discussion – Jon Carter
Jon Carter said I wanted to bring this discussion to the LAC because we are talking about a comprehensive plan and a few months ago at a meeting at the Eastland Hotel in Portland I talked with a guy from NMFS, Dave Gouveia and he said” whatever you do don’t let the whale people bully you into taking traps out of the water”. Vicky Cornish has said we will be going after traps and we will win; it is not a whale issue, it’s a trap issue. Everyone needs to think about it, we need to stand up and win; they are using the whales against us and bullying us. We need to fight this, I know it takes money; we’ve got to win or we are going to be gone.
Bob said the Maine Lobstermen’s Association board met and towards the end of the meeting the Maine Lobstermen’s Association’s position was to go to the table with vertical lines not traps. Jon said let the State but not the whale people take traps away. Dana said the whale issue has been around a long time and it is not going away; are we at a point where we have done all we can do for the lobster industry?
George said they tried to split endlines from groundlines, I don’t think it is something we can avoid; some people want to do away for the exemption line. Steve Robbins said Jon Carter is right, I have a different take on the groundline thing; it has taken 10 years to get here - my intent as a member on that team is not to bargain away a thing but to represent the fishermen I work for and fish around; we have some good things working in our favor. I don’t see anything coming out of this next meeting that will be drastic. John Higgins said I think you guys are on the right track, my boss was the guy sitting next to Jon; it’s not traps that we’re concerned about and they don’t want the meeting hijacked.
Larry said a lot of guys fish strings, I wondered if they are looking at vertical lines; 40 whales have been seen off shore, shouldn’t credit be given to people fishing the correct way. Sarah Cotnoir said we don’t even know what we’re shooting for, all they know is that we sell 3.2 million tags from the endline survey that Erin Summers did. George said one of the keys points to what Sarah said is that the State of Maine has the data; it’s the only data that is out there. David Cousens said we have the potential to go to 4 million tags. Steve Robbins said in the most recent CFN article they make reference to legal action brought forward by Max.
4. Reports and Updates
a. DMR Updates
o Legislative Update
Deputy Commissioner David Etnier gave the Lobster Advisory Council an update on pending DMR Legislation that was enclosed in their handouts.
LD 585 – “An Act to Protect Fishing Families by Authorizing Certain Transfers of Lobster and Crab Fishing Licenses”
This bill would have authorized the transfer of a Class I, Class II or Class III lobster and crab fishing license by the license holder to that person's child, grandchild or spouse under certain circumstances. The relative who is receiving the license by transfer must have completed a Department of Marine Resources' apprentice program for entry into the lobster fishery, and the license holder and the transferee must notify the department in writing of the transfer. It also adds a provision to limit a recipient of a license by transfer to 300 traps in the initial year and an increase of 100 traps each subsequent year up to the trap limit, and it requires the Department of Marine Resources to review the transfer of licenses in 3 years, and annually thereafter, and to make recommendations on whether or not to continue allowing transfers.
This bill has been through the Marine Resource Committee; came out with a minority report and is dead.
LD 246 –“An Act Regarding Violations of Lobster Conservation”
This bill passed with unanimous support. At the last LAC meeting folks made recommendations and were taken back to the MRC; lobster dealers are not part of the suspensions. There were concerns with the owner/operator provision – the MRC did not alter the language to grandfather anyone. Marine Patrol will develop a written policy and it will be in the lobster newsletter when it goes into effect.
LD 928 –“An Act to Permit the Landing of Dragged Crabs as Bycatch”
This bill allows a person who is issued a commercial fishing license under the Maine Revised Statutes, Title 12, section 6501 to take, possess and sell crabs that have been taken as bycatch while using an otter trawl within the exclusive economic zone as shown on the most recently published Federal Government nautical chart. There is a public hearing on this bill today, the DMR supports this bill; we will need to do rule-making for restrictions, trip limits that is only a bycatch. The work session on this bill is next week.
LD 1009 –“An Act to Allow Lobster License Exemptions to Persons with Certain Medical Criteria”
Current law requires that to be eligible for a lobster license, a person must have had a lobster license in the previous year. An appeal of a denial of a license can be made to the Commissioner of Marine Resources if the person did not have a license in the previous year due to an illness or medical condition. This bill strikes the language that requires a person to have had a license and make the appeal within one year of the onset of the illness or medical condition. There is a public hearing on April 1st on this bill. The DMR has concerns with the way this is worded; there is a loophole for people to enter the fishery. We have an appeals process now; we have not held people to 365 days, we have been reasonable.
Senator Dennis Damon said LD 1009 was brought forward because of a fellow that I know who was misdiagnosed with MS. He started coming out of his shell after he found out that he did not have MS; all he wants to do is fish again. There is not a trap limit on this bill but I would be willing to do that if needed. Jon Carter said I have a concern that you are opening a can of worms; I actually agree with you Dennis; I just don’t want to open it up. Dennis said it is not my intention to open it up to just anyone; there has to be some way to do this, I don’t think there are many of these people. Gerry said I agree with you on that issue Sen. Damon but in my area there is a lot of drug use; people have faked back problems to get drugs, I just don’t know how we separate the two. Dennis said he has tried to determine if it could be a private and special law. George said our problem is, how can we coral it. David Etnier said I have a lot of respect for Sen. Damon and I don’t like having to disagree with him on anything, but there are other situations that I can think of that would fall in to this.
Larry asked about medical & military exceptions. Dennis said the problem that is creates is what it opens up. Larry asked could you shelf a license. David said that is the way it is now, you let us know, we hold the license and we give it back to you; once you open the threshold and you start where does it stop. Patrice MaCarron said the MLA does not support this bill. Rep. Bruce MacDonald said maybe you could put a clause in about criminal activity. George said all these things show how hard it is to make these kinds of decisions. Gerry asked can you use a misdiagnosis. Bob Baines asked what the LAC recommends on LD 1009. Jeff Putnam said Zone F voted against. Jon Carter said he’s my friend, he came to a Zone Council meeting and we supported him, but I’m concerned about opening up a can of worms. John Drouin said Zone A did not support this bill.
LD 1009 –“An Act to Allow Family Members of an Island Community to Share a Lobster and Crab Fishing License”
This bill allows the holder of a current Class I, Class II or Class III lobster and crab fishing license who is a permanent resident on an island not connected to the mainland by a bridge to share that license with family members who are permanent residents of the same island or another non-bridged island within the same municipality. A family member sharing the Class I, Class II or Class III lobster and crab fishing license is subject to the same privileges and restrictions as the primary license holder. It provides that for each family member sharing a Class I, Class II or Class III lobster and crab fishing license, the number of trap tags the primary license holder is eligible to receive under that license is reduced by 20%. This bill also provides that, if the primary license holder is deceased or retires from commercially fishing for lobster and crab, a family member sharing the license must be named as the primary license holder or the license lapses back to the State.
Sen. Damon said maintaining a community on an island is difficult; this bill is designed to have a family member to share license. There are lots of regulations in this bill; the purpose is to keep people on island - on the islands. Dan MacDonald said this bill is vital in an open zone; we need guarantees for people to fish that live on islands. David said I disagree with Dan, we have not seen that occurring; we’ve talked with some island folks and they said they are doing fine. There are a lot of issues on how this would be administered; it’s tough to track permanent residency.
Jon Carter asked about the proposed consolidation bill. George said the Governor’s bill to make four agencies in to one is out there; with a savings of 1.5 million.
o Rulemaking
Sarah Cotnoir explained that Chapter 75 was put in to place removing the neutrally buoyant wording.
o Lobster Task Force Update
The Lobster Task Force met with the Mosley group and gathered industry members to 3 meetings. At the next meeting the Lobster Task Force will be presented with the Mosley group’s recommendations in late April/1st of May. Dana Dow said I am on the LTF and it is the most encouraging task force I’ve ever been on. Dana read a letter about lobster storage systems and their problems and said he is very encouraged about what is going on. Jeff Putnam commended the task force panel’s and said they were well selected; great meetings.
o MSC Update
MSC team is coming to Maine the 20th of April; we will get the schedule and mail it out to the LAC. Annie Tselikis asked what they will be doing and if there is any chance of a meeting in Ellsworth.
George said they will be looking at the health of fishery, whale issue and science used to asses the fishery; we’ve worked with NMFS and we are paying attention to what is going on.
Pete said this is dangerous; I’m worried about this and the tomalley. Bob said we will get to vote on this but not until we get the assessment in front of us. Jon said the Canadian fishermen feel the same way they are worried we will do it before them. Dana said we need to throw this out the window; the State of Maine should certify our own product.
5. Set Next Meeting Date and Agenda
The date for the next Lobster Advisory Council meeting will be scheduled after the next Lobster Task Force meeting.
