Department of Marine Resources
Lobster Advisory Council Meeting Minutes
Natural Resources Service Center
6 Beech Street, Hallowell
February 11, 2009 5:00 pm
A meeting of the Department of Marine Resources’ Lobster Advisory Council was held on this date at the Natural Resources Service Center, 6 Beech Street, Hallowell, Maine. Council members attending this meeting included: Chair Bob Baines (Non-Zone Lobsterman), John Drouin (Zone A), Jon Carter (Zone B), Dan MacDonald (Zone C), Ted Hoskins (General Public Member), Gerry Cushman (Zone D), Dana Rice, (Eastern Dealer), Larry Knapp (Zone E), Jeff Putnam (Zone F), Jim Henderson (Zone G), Elliott Thomas (Non-Zone Lobsterman) and Peter McAleney (Western Dealer Member). Council members not present included: Cappy Sargent (Non-Zone Lobsterman) and Ted Hoskins (General Public Member). Commissioner George Lapointe, Deputy Commissioner David Etnier, Deirdre Gilbert, Sarah Cotnoir, Colonel Joe Fessenden, Carl Wilson, Melissa Smith, Kathleen Reardon and Donna Hall of the Department of Marine Resources were also present. Others present were: David Cousens, Patrice McCarron, Sheila Dassatt, Erin Pellitier, Stephen Brooks, Annie Tselikis, Darryl Grover, John Coffin, John Norton, Jeff Holden, Senator Dennis Damon, Representative Lila Percy, Representative Eaton, Representative Chuck Kruger and Dane Somers from the Maine Lobster Promotion Council.
The meeting convened at 5:10 p.m.
1. Welcome and Review of Agenda
2. Approval of Minutes (November 17, 2008)
MOTION: (G. Cushman and D. MacDonald) To accept the minutes of the November 17, 2008 meeting as written. 8 in favor, 1 abstention
3. New Business
a. Maine Lobster Promotion Council Nominations
Chairman Bob Baines told the members of the Lobster Advisory Council that in their packets they would see three nomination letters from the Maine Lobster Promotion Council and asked the council to look over the recommendations of the MLPC so the LAC could make recommendations on the nominations. Bob said as the new season approaches we need all the help we can get; all harvesters are looking hard at the Maine Lobster Promotion Council.
MOTION: (E. Thomas and J. Putnam) To accept the recommendation of the Maine Lobster Promotion Council’s nomination of John Jordan, Western District Harvester from Yarmouth. 7 in favor 2 opposed
MOTION: (P. McAleney and L. Knapp) To accept the recommendation of the Maine Lobster Promotion Council’s nomination of Dick Grotton, Public Member from the Mid-Coast District. 8 in favor 1 abstention
MOTION: (G. Cushman and E. Thomas) To accept the recommendation of the Maine Lobster Promotion Council’s nomination of Emily Lane, Dealer Member Western District Representative. 8 in favor 1 abstention
b. Update on Tiered License System Sub-Committee
The Lobster Advisory Council Chairman Bob Baines reported that the Sub-Committee on developing a Tiered License System met yesterday for 3.5 hours and said we are looking at a couple of different things; one would be to determine the ratio of income derived from commercial fishing to total income, e.g. 2/3 of total income generated from commercial fishing qualifies for top tier. Another option to qualify would be a “trifecta” option (tags purchased, dealer landings and an affidavit.) We’ve had discussions about the income coming from all commercial fishing; it would be the fishermen’s responsibility for providing information to meet the criteria. There are still a lot of details that need to be worked out before we can present something back to the Lobster Advisory Council. Bob said developing criteria to determine who is a full-timer vs. who is a part-timer is challenging.
The Maine Department of Marine Resources will be putting something together for discussion and we also want to talk with a certified public account. John Drouin said it is not my belief that it has to be a CPA. Bob said you are correct. Jeff Putnam asked when the sub-committee will be meeting again. Bob said no date has been set but hopefully we will meet again before the next LAC.
c. Continued Discussion on Comprehensive Effort Reduction Plan
Commissioner George Lapointe said as we continue to move forward with a Comprehensive Effort Reduction Plan and working with the DMR staff we will be looking at a 3 tier system, lowering latent license category – keeping the license rather than lose the license; allow movement to build down over time. Jeff Putnam asked if he missed something. George said no; this is to get things started. Jeff asked is your recommendation a 45% reduction? George said it would be something to look at and get a conversation started. Carl Wilson said we are looking at numbers. Jeff said Zone F is not crowded.
Bob Baines said there is support to do something about effort reduction however if we move forward we need the support of the industry; with the pending whale rules we need to do something. J. Drouin asked why there is a need to do that. Commissioner Lapointe said economic, whale rules and the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Council stock assessment. John asked what the levels would be of 1997. Sarah Cotnoir said it would be a difference of about 200,000 tags. Bob said that is why we’re working on putting people in tiers. Jeff asked if the tiered license sub-committee has talked about a trap reduction. Bob said no. Elliott Thomas said there has to be some kind of a reduction as people get in to tiers. Bob said a million tags would go away if we accomplish that. John asked would that put people in to the fishery at 1:1; is it still going to be at tags out. I realize that with the tiers it would not take people out; is that the goal to continue down. George said it would not likely reduce effort, so I would say no; you’d have to figure out what the goal is.
Representative Leila Percy asked what qualifies people to get in to tiers. Bob explained that the Tiered License Sub-committee is discussing different tiers right now; possibility the top tier would be income generated from commercial fishing and then maybe a middle tier and then a lower tier with a smaller number of traps. Gerry Cushman asked what if you lie. Sarah said a license suspension has been discussed. Bob said we need to make sure that it is enforceable. Jeff said he would like to see the sub-committee move forward but with the full-timers getting 800 traps. Larry Knapp said what bothers me about this is; what about the guy who wants to fish for pogies and gets away from lobstering. Jim Henderson said we agreed at yesterday’s meeting that it was all commercial fishing.
d. Lobster Fishery/Herring Fishery Interaction – John Drouin
John Drouin said we as an industry with all the bait we use should be looking at the consumption and use it properly and wisely. George said John is right, the herring group needs to get together and look at what is going on with herring; use the days out method. We can only control people’s landings; there is cheating on the system and the system is broken down. There is a commitment to do a better job and you are right this is a good discussion to have. Bob Baines asked John if he had any suggestions. John said not really but I know we need to do something to help alleviate the shortage; my area is 100% reliant on herring and we don’t have a storage area for enough to get by, it concerns me that we use the most when it’s was least available. Bob said pogies saved us last year. Gerry said lets hope they show up again this year.
John said we found out last week at a meeting that Area 1A is closed. George said there has been discussion in giving the three States more control. David Cousens said I know we have a problem enforcing days in/days out. Annie Tselikis said she wanted to commend Patrice McCarron for having the MLA meeting on this issue; it was a good meeting and it may be beneficial to have another meeting. Bob said it was a very good meeting. Annie said the science piece was amazing; some of the stuff I had never heard before. George said we’ve talked about the supply end but John wants to talk about the use end. Elliott asked is there any way there can be flexibility for weather. George said it is difficult for enforcement; the key is starting the right way so you don’t get in to that same situation again.
4. Reports and Updates
a. DMR Updates
o Legislative Update
Deputy Commissioner David Etnier introduced and welcomed four members of the Marine Resource Committee; Senator Dennis Damon, Representative Lila Percy, Representative Rob Eaton and Representative Chuck Kruger.
David said there has been a discussion going on about the lack of staffing in the shellfish industry. The MRC will be looking into how we will fund this shortfall; we are looking at a surcharge on the shellfish license that may fund 2 out of 4 positions. We will also be looking at a surcharge on all licenses.
David handed out the most recent Marine Resource Committee schedule to the Lobster Advisory Council and thanked all those who came and spoke in support of LD246 “An Act Regarding Violations of Lobster Conservation”. David told the Lobster Advisory Council that the MRC would like their opinion on a grandfathering provision being added to the Owner-operator vessel operation section of LD246. Representative Lila Percy said this is very important to some folks and urged council members to call their zone council representatives.
Bob Baines said there are people abusing the system. Larry Knapp said if it’s husband and wife I don’t see anything wrong with it; it’s a social issue and people are just jealous. Elliott pointed out that there are some cases where both people in the family are using the same buoy colors. John said then perhaps the buoy color law should be changed. Bob said this is for fairness; Marine Patrol has not been able to make a case.
Colonel Fessenden said what’s happening is somebody is setting up a sternman in the lobster business; it is full time fishermen that have a lot of money. There are several dozen of these situations and sometimes they go bust; when the two people have differences. The intent of this is; if you operate the boat then you need to own the boat and have the same buoy color; it’s up to the legislature and the fishermen.
John Droiun said I agree with Larry; they have gone through the proper channel to get the license. David Cousens said what we are trying to address is owner/operator, this causes a lot of hate and discontent; all this language does is define operator. Elliott said this is a good time to tighten this up. Sarah said I don’t think fishermen want this to become a cooperate fishery. Jeff Putnam said we did vote to tighten this up. John said I don’t think we should be grandfathering.
MOTION: (E. Thomas and D. MacDonald)) Not to support grandfathering in the owner/operator section of LD246. 8 in Favor, 1 Opposed
David Etnier said the MRC also would like to have the Lobster Advisory Council weigh in on the portion of LD246 that speaks to the penalty for the number of lobsters and how they feel about this including dealers. Bob asked is the number of lobsters too many. Jim Henderson asked can you suspend for just one. Col. Fessenden said yes we can; the word mandatory boxes us in. We are not giving people passes if it is a mandatory suspension; the person has no right to a hearing, the only way you can get out of it would be a pardon from the Governor.
Pete McAleney said from a dealer’s standpoint we will put your name on our crate to protect ourselves. Patrice McCarron said I want to make sure that it is for all illegal lobsters; it used to be just three shorts. There is a lot more involved with this and if you have a new Warden you could be off a little bit; Maine Lobstermen’s Association agreed to back the five and a mandatory suspension on the 2nd offense. Bob said he is comfortable with five. David said it can be a combination of five illegal lobsters.
David asked is this same penalty and suspension fair for dealers. Elliott asked is the dealer responsible. Joe Fessenden said if the dealer cooperates we go back to the harvester. Bob said they are liable for the fine. Pete said I’ve been fined because I didn’t do my job and a mistake is our own fault. I am okay with the fines on dealers but not on the mandatory suspension. John said maybe we need more fines for dealers instead of warnings. Joe said most fishermen are good, they don’t bring in illegal lobsters; Marine Patrol Officers do not want to see someone lose their license. The problem with mandatory is; it takes the discretion away from the Commissioner. George does a great job and this way it will be out of our hands. Jim Henderson asked if you can suspend for any violation. George said yes; if it is a violation of a Marine Resource Law.
MOTION: (D. MacDonald and J. Henderson) To remove the Dealer from mandatory suspension on possession of 5 illegal lobsters in LD246. 8 in Favor, 1 Opposed
David said Senator Damon, Senate Chair of the Marine Resource Committee also wants the Lobster Advisory Council’s opinion on LD 141 “An Act To Allow a Person 65 Years of Age or Older To Obtain a Lobster License without Completing the Apprentice Program”. After very little discussion the LAC said they do not support LD141.
David explained LD378 “An Act to Prohibit Dragging for Bait Fish in Certain Territorial Waters”. He said he thinks the bill is flawed and he needs to explain the intent to the MRC. Many fishermen heard complaints from some recreational fishermen last summer that the seiners were driving the stripers away. Gerry Cushman said that the seine fishery is good and that there were very few gear conflict issues. Pete warned the lobster industry that they should be careful and ban foreign bait that does not come from the ocean. Carl Wilson said that the RED Board has funded a project to study bio-security issues with regards to bait.
MOTION: (G. Cushman and E. Thomas) Not to support LD378 as written. 8 in Favor, 1 abstention.
o Rulemaking
Joe explained the proposed rule in regards to the Special Circumstances Permit. Joe said that the Department has about 300 of these situations annually and this rule change would require that the person making the request do so in writing and comply with conditions stated in the permit; it would be a violation of the rule not to comply.
Sarah Cotnoir explained that Zone G is proposing to require that buoys be marked at the ends of trawls in such a way that the buoy marking end is distinguishable from the buoy on the opposite end of the trawl. This rule would apply only in the vicinity of Kittery and would add a distinguishable buoy marking requirement to the regulation.
o Lobster Task Force Update
The Lobster Task Force met to review the RFP and Deirdre Gilbert will be doing a press release on the results of their choice tomorrow. The first of two panel meetings will be held on February 26th in Portland and then on March 10th in Ellsworth; locations to be announced. At these meetings, the Task Force will be receiving information from a series of panels, including a Harvester Panel, Lobster Researcher Panel, and Community Representatives Panel. There will also be public comment opportunities during the meeting, where people can provide additional information to the Task Force.
o MSC Update
Commissioner Lapointe said that the process is moving forward and Moody Marine has been selected to conduct the MSC assessment.
5. Set Next Meeting Date and Agenda
The date for the next Lobster Advisory Council meeting will be the end of March.
