Department of Marine Resources
Lobster Advisory Council Meeting Minutes
Department of Human Services
442 Civic Center Drive, Augusta
July 30, 2008 – 4:00 PM
Department of Marine Resources
Lobster Advisory Council Meeting Minutes
Department of Human Services
442 Civic Center Drive, Augusta
July 30, 2008 4:00 pm
A meeting of the Department of Marine Resources’ Lobster Advisory Council (Council) was held on this date at the Department of Human Services, 442 Civic Center Drive, Augusta. Council members attending this meeting included: Chair Bob Baines (Non-Zone Lobsterman), John Drouin (Zone A), Dan MacDonald (Zone C), Ted Hoskins (General Public Member), Gerry Cushman (Zone D), Jeff Putnam (Zone F), Elliott Thomas (Non-Zone Lobsterman), Jim Henderson (Zone G), and Peter McAleney (Western Dealer Member). Council members not present included: Jon Carter (Zone B), Larry Knapp (Zone E) and Cappy Sargent (Non-Zone Lobsterman). Commissioner George Lapointe, Deputy Commissioner David Etnier, Deirdre Gilbert, Sarah Cotnoir, Melissa Smith, Kathleen Reardon, Carl Wilson and Donna Hall of the Department of Marine Resources were also present. Others present were: David Cousens, Patrice McCarron, David Merryman, Claire Grindal, Annie Tselikis, Jeff Eaton, Steve Train, Mr. Larrabee, Wendy Goyert, Susan Jones, Erin Pelletier and Dane Somers from the Maine Lobster Promotion Council.
The meeting convened at 4:05 p.m.
1. Welcome and Review of Agenda
Bob Baines welcomed everyone to the meeting and introduced Jeff Putnam as a new member of the Lobster Advisory Council representing Zone F.
2. Approval of Minutes (April 16, 2008)
MOTION: (T. Hoskins and J. Henderson) To accept the minutes of the April 16, 2008 meeting as written. Unanimous.
3. New Business
a. Maine Lobster Promotion Council Nominees
The Maine Lobster Promotion Council had three members’ terms expire and presented the Lobster Advisory Council with three nominees to be considered for appointment:
Western District Harvester – John Jordan
Eastern District Public Member – Dennis DeSilvey
Midcoast District Dealer – David Sleeper
The Lobster Advisory Council voted unanimously to accept the nominees as slated.
b. Effort Reduction Questionnaire
A copy of the initial results of the Lobster Effort Questionnaire was given to members of the Lobster Advisory Council. Commissioner Lapointe pointed out that of those responding, it was typically high end fishermen; with younger people responding less. The respondents are categorized by zone, tag number, age and license type. Comm. Lapointe told the LAC that there was a great return in response to the questionnaire and of those who responded, they shared concerns about the supply of bait and the Atlantic Large Whale Take Reduction Plan. Zone F was more concerned with question 4 than other zones, for question 5 the majority of zones were split, with a fair amount of support. With question 6 the majority of people said no (those in favor supported a median of -25%), question 7 the majority was in favor. Question 8 was pretty close and with those with over 600 tags there was more support. Question 9 and question 10 the spreads are not that broad; those having more tags showed more support. Comm. Lapointe said people should feel good about the percentage of response.
Bob Baines said that the Department of Maine Resources staff did a good job working on this data; there is a lot of work here and opened up discussion to the council.
Jeff Putnam said the data seems to point out a problem with bait, the majority of people are worried about the number of traps fished in their area, that there is little support for everyone to reduce by a percentage, 51% said across the board cut and 35% would support a freeze in tags. Jeff said he thinks there are possible solutions but I really don’t know where to go from there.
Elliott Thomas said he was surprised that reducing by a percentage didn’t go overwhelmingly. George said from what he hears about reducing traps and what was done before, there were concerns that it would just be a shift in allocation. Elliott said we didn’t get a net cut. George said when we talked about a trap tag freeze, we said if you don’t want people to build up you need to freeze tags; people were concerned about the students.
Ted Hoskins asked if we can talk about zones making their own decisions based upon their zone’s needs. Bob said zones already have the ability to reduce traps we’re just trying to get an idea of what the people are thinking; we may be able to make some suggestions. George said the issue of trap limit is already within the privy of the zones, people are not comfortable with talking about a trap limit, some people think it should be across the board. Fisheries issues are like no other, they have a level of intensity that others don’t, another thing we need to look at is how much do we allow zones to do.
John Drouin said there is nothing here that really jumps out to me that says we have to do something right now, there are options here that can be done by each zone; seems like we’re getting away from zone councils, how do you go forward from here, there is no true path here that the industry wants. Elliott said if it goes back to the zones, there has to be bigger tools for them to use. John said we have actually done that with traps/licenses for entry, we can essentially do what this is asking us to do; people get up, grow up and go fishing. I don’t think we should go further, when you go forward with legislation it makes it so difficult to go back. We have two zones that are voting against what people want in their zone (A & C). If you’re going to look at things on a State level then we should look at the zone council process. Pete McAleney said don’t let the government tell you what to do, if each zone has its own authority. Gerry Cushman asked how do we correct the zones; Zone C should have closed their zone. John said Zone A did same thing with exit survey.
George said we asked those questions because people in the past have said that it’s only people with a few tags making the decisions. Gerry said if you study this, the guys with 700/800 traps had a bigger vote. Ted said this is important conversation and it’s reminded us that this is just a percentage of the statistics. George said it’s hard to get people engaged and a 35% return is huge; we are not going to see 60-70 % of people in favor. People are concerned about whale issues, the lobster assessment and bait shortages. If something is moved ahead it has to be done in public; something that moves forward to better the lobster industry in Maine. It’s a lot easier to oppose something in the Legislature than it is to support it. Sometimes twenty small changes make a bill something that it wasn’t in the beginning.
Bob said question 2 & 4 stand out to me where you add very much and somewhat; it’s a huge percentage of people who are concerned about this industry. We’re going to have a vertical line discussion and we are going to lose, how can we deal with this down the road? I think it’s our responsibility to figure out a plan to keep the full timers fishing. Gerry said we don’t know what they’re looking for, and we have the stock assessment coming. Bob said it makes no sense to me why we would allow more traps going in the water when we know what they may do to us. Elliott said reducing the number of traps may come from outside; there is a lot of valuable information here if we have to use it. David Cousens said a 50% reduction of lines is what the whale people are looking for; one plan not 3 different areas to deal with, a singles ban and the most you could have is 400 vertical lines.
A fisherman from the audience said we have to figure who is not using tags before we start reducing the full time fishermen. George said that’s why you need a package deal, latent licenses is not the only thing, we can’t just take one part that you don’t like and go with that, if you do something it needs to be a combination. Bob said guys who don’t want to participate get what they deserve. Sarah Cotnoir said the only way to get to that is harvester reporting; we could take the results and pull in the data, but what does that give you?
Steve Train said what I see in general is people think that there are too many traps in the water and someone should take them out, that started back in 1991. I think the zones need more power; the Legislature is lost sometimes because of how people speak. We need to find other tools for the zones; I can’t afford to go to 400, I can’t make it. John said I understand where Steve is coming from, but if you look at students there will be nothing for them to do. Mr. Larrabee asked if the State is ready for the people that will be unemployed; I just won’t take a sternman.
George said that is a fair comment, we can wait to see what happens with the whale people, ASMFC or whoever. If we’re not paying attention and make no changes and wait and see what happens it could have an impact; every decision has an impact, doing nothing also has impacts, people have asked us to talk about this, so we are. Mr. Larrabee said the Federal Government is ruling us; it’s about time the State stood up and said it’s the 3-mile. George said the State of Maine did stand behind the industry. Patrice McCarron said they will shut your fishery down. David Cousens said these people are not just sitting around doing nothing; this is endangered species you’re talking about and the conservation people are not cutting us any slack. Sarah said David has sat in on some of these meetings; they have a focus and that’s all they care about.
Bob asked what can we do to protect the fishermen, where do we go from here. Gerry said I’m in favor of freezing everything until the stock assessment comes out so we can see what number we have to go to.
John said it’s all perspective; the number of tags you fish doesn’t say anything about full time/part time. I think freezing everything is not the right thing to do; our numbers are coming down and we should give them time to work, Zone A says reduce. Gerry asked how do you stop more traps. John said people are so scared of everything, just let it take the time to work with the things that we are already doing. Gerry said I only said a temporary freeze. Jeff said I agree with John we need to allow the exit of tags some time to work, in Zone F now it’s 4000 tags out. Bob said in my opinion the limited entry plan is working well now but it doesn’t account for the students coming in; we’re not making a big enough change. With this whale plan coming I see a reduction, I don’t know what the answers are.
Carl Wilson said we look at a different track here with question 1 and 4; we are coming in to some tough times. If it is biological it could be some medicine; these results are very interesting. Elliott said when you go to the forum and hear the number of pounds landed and it seems to be going down; people focus on what they’ve heard. Carl said independent of the survey things are changing and they are not going a positive direction.
David said people need to look at it as - is this going in the right direction; need to look at the big picture, we are going to have a reduction, we should be working together on this to come up with something that everyone can live with. There are ways to get rid of latent effort; if you didn’t have landings then you should be out.
Steve Train said whether it’s for the resource or the whales, whatever the cuts are we still need to keep people working, I think we need to start looking at transferability; this would kill the community I live in. Gerry asked if someone could tell him what number we need to get to. Sarah said they are different conversations.
George said if you think about timing we might get to a number in 3 years if we’re lucky. The assessment will come out in February, how long do we freeze for? In July of next year we’ll have the same kind of dilemma.
Patrice said nobody wants to make a move until the goal post is set; we’ve really been trying hard and George is right, no one knows. Whatever we do we need to make sure that we get full credit for the whale conservation of whatever we do, what we’ve been working with is telling them to set the goal post, we could have this decision forever; the DMR is working toward this. Gerry said even we go to 600 or 400, do we need to talk about reducing lines as well. Patrice said I would not move forward with a trap reduction that puts rope in the water; keep the greatest flexibility in your hands, the issues are clear, the goal post is not. Carl said you have a dilemma and not a clear way out of it; I would prefer to do things proactively. Bob said whatever we do will be difficult.
A fisherman from the audience asked what ideas people have to do something about latent effort. Bob said it is difficult to kick someone out of the fishery. Jim Henderson asked didn’t we agree to see what we thought about the results of this survey; I recommend that we take this back to our individual zones and find out what your zones want to do. I was surprised at Zone F, if people don’t come to a meeting then it’s their tough luck; if they don’t come up with a plan then maybe the whale people will come up with one for us. Bob said no decisions will be made today; we need to have each of you take it back to the zone councils.
David Merryman asked did I understand that a 600 trap limit would not be enough? George said I said 600 would not be enough to achieve a significant reduction in fishing mortality if that is what the assessment says is needed, am I right Carl? Carl said yes if the assessment shows fishing mortality the mandate would mean the fishery would have to catch less lobsters and you would have to make the fit to get to the right number; as far as a biological tool, traps are difficult. Bob said what I see this council and zones doing is trying to find some solutions to some of these problems.
Jeff asked why there were no questions on the survey about closures, vents and gauges. George said it’s an effort survey. Jeff asked what the price of herring has to do with effort. George said you’re right, someone wanted that question on there; people wanted an honest discussion about effort reduction. Patrice asked how significant differences in the response are. Carl said we haven’t run formal statistics on the results, but a good rule is a 10% difference is a significant difference; 35%-definitive answers are a very robust return. Patrice said this could be argued that these results are what the fishery wants. Ted asked shouldn’t we give the zone councils some choices of what they can do. George said this is the third major go with effort in 10 years, these all involve tough choices, and the perfect grail is not in here, at some point there is going to have to be a decision made. Elliott said I agree with Ted, but I think we are going to have to cut the number of traps. John said when we take it back the zones will say no, and we’ll come back here in September. Until we refer this to the State we won’t get anywhere; it has to be tailored to where we want to get. Sarah said people are stuck on question number 7. Carl said they see the only solutions as numbers 8, 9, and 10.
Annie Tselikis said recently the Scallop Advisory Council sat down and looked at options of what they could do for limited entry and then made some changes to their fishery. Patrice said Ted and Annie have some good ideas; what if we just made up our own goals so maybe zone councils could look at it and see where they can go. George said people in the community and this room have done a huge amount of work and if not we would be in a lot worse shape. Bob asked how do move forward. George said I think we have to go out to the zones and tell them the LAC asked us to send out this questionnaire because people are concerned. Jim said when I bring this back to my zone I’m going to tell them why we did it; certifying the fishery, whales, etc.,this is what is going on around the world, we want to find out what these guys want to do. Sarah said to Jim’s point this is framework for what’s coming down the road; with some zones there will be new people with new ideas. We are still compiling comments from the questionnaires; there are many pages of them. Gerry asked what is the last date to get a bill in. George said the DMR has until September and the Legislature has until December. Bob said the zone council representatives can go back to zones and discuss the questionnaire and see what they want brought back for discussion; we’ll meet again in September.
c. Update on Lobster Tomalley
Commissioner Lapointe told the LAC that he had just been told this morning that Japan was not accepting Maine lobster. A week and half ago test results on tomalley showed high levels of red-tide, we re-issued the advisory and New Hampshire did the same, the FDA re-did theirs and stated don’t eat American Lobster with quotes “Maine Lobster Tomalley”. The same thing happened a few years ago with lead in lobster; I’ve been working with the Congressional delegation and other groups to make clarification. Pete said Japan doesn’t buy much but what we may have is a domino effect, the Italians may go this way next; FDA read it wrong. Where we ship our shedders to the European Union, hopefully the Europeans don’t jump on this; we’re having a great season. Dane Somers said the FDA advisory was for all North American lobster, the press release was not clear, they told me they do not do follow up advisories and now I can’t get them to answer the phone. People remember that there is a problem with Maine Lobster not what the advisory is really about. The Maine State Heath Department and the DMR has been very aggressive, if you get calls on this please refer them to the DMR. Pete said this is serious because this makes great press.
4. Old Business
5. Reports and Updates
a. DMR Updates
Jeff Putnam briefed the LAC on a few meetings that guys from Zone F & G had recently in regards to discussion on a 12 mile line to relieve pressure to the westward.
6. Set next Meeting Date and Agenda
The date for the next Lobster Advisory Council is August 27th.
MOTION: (E. Thomas and T. Hoskins) To adjourn. Unanimous.
The meeting adjourned at 7:30 pm.
