Lobster Advisory Council
Minutes
DRAFT DOCUMENT – NOT REVIEWED BY LOBSTER ADVISORY COUNCIL
Lobster Advisory Council
Meeting Minutes
Department of Human Services Conference Room - Augusta
May 18, 2005 –
5:00 p.m.
A meeting of the Department of Marine Resources’ Lobster Advisory Council (Council) was held on this date at the Department of Human Services on Civic Center Drive in Augusta. Council members attending this meeting included: Chair Larry Knapp (Zone E), John Drouin (Zone A), Dan MacDonald (Zone C), Dan Miller (Zone D), Frank Strout (Zone F), Peter Eaton (Zone G), Bob Baines (Non-Zone Lobsterman) and Cappy Sargent (Non-Zone Lobsterman). Council members not present included: Jon Carter (Zone B), Dana McIntire (Non-Zone Lobsterman), Dana Rice (Eastern Dealer) and Ted Hoskins (General Public Member). Commissioner George Lapointe, Deputy Commissioner David Etnier, Col. Joe Fessenden, Terry Stockwell, Carl Wilson and Sarah Cotnoir of the Department of Marine Resources were also present. Others present were Representative Leila Percy, Senator Dennis Damon, Clive Farrin, Stephen Robbins, III, John Butler, Susan Jones, Howard Gray, Elliott Thomas, Patrice McCarron and Lyman Kennedy. There were other unknown people present that did not sign the roster.
The meeting convened at 5:10 p.m.
1. Welcome and Review of Agenda
2. Approval of Minutes (March 16, 2005)
MOTION: (F. Strout and D. MacDonald) To accept the minutes of the March 16, 2005 meeting as written. Unanimous.
3. Discussion with Members of the Marine Resources Committee (MRC)
Representative Leila Percy and Senator Dennis Damon were at this meeting to get input on LD 1147, the proposed bill to allow for the transfer of a commercial lobster and crab fishing license from a current license holder to certain family members. While a majority of the Committee voted Ought Not to Pass on the bill, the Committee requested the opportunity to discuss this issue with the LAC as addressing issues of illness and military waivers have been a contentious issue.
Members thought that until we get the effort reduction where we want it, this concept should be tabled. It could be discussed again when we are at a sustainable effort. Concern was also expressed that when a title is submitted for legislation; sometimes the actual resulting language is different. Patrice commented that she has the roll call on how each legislator voted, and if you have specific concerns, please submit them to your legislator. This bill was carried over because of fishermen input - it made a huge difference.
4. Old Business
a. Legislative Update
Deputy Commissioner David Etnier reviewed the LD tracking:
LD 373 – An Act to Achieve Compliance with the Interstate Lobster Fishery Management Plan – Passed as Emergency. Keeps us in compliance with ASMFC – fishermen are bound by the most restrictive language. It requires individuals who possess both a Mane lobster license and a federal lobster permit to comply with the largest minimum lobster size for all federal lobster management areas declared on their licenses wherever they are fishing. The feds were going to give people until May 1st.
LD 434 – An Act to Clarify Maine’s Authority To Enforce Its Marine Resources Laws – This bill creates a definition for “established base of operations”, “registered vessel” and “rigged”. This is an important bill that passed. It is now law that if you fish out of a Maine Port, you are bound by all Maine laws.
LD 513 – An Act to Amend the Hours for Lobster Fishing – This bill would have changed the end date of this period from October 31st to October 1st. This bill was killed.
LD 527 – An Act to Authorize the Commissioner of Marine Resources to Regulate the Use of Alternative Bait in Marine Fisheries – An MLA initiative amended significantly by the Marine Resources Committee. Effective January 1, 2006, it is no longer legal in Maine to fish with alternative bait, wild and domestic animal offal, and hides with hair. Uncle Henry’s bait is now illegal. If there is hair on it, it will be illegal. If it’s on the vessel, you are guilty.
LD 691 – An Act To Provide Public Health Protection Authority to the Department of Marine Resources – This bill relates to the use of baits. The Commissioner now has the right to regulate for public health purposes.
LD 895 – An Act To Expand the Authority of Maine’s Lobster Management Policy Councils – This bill was passed by the legislature and gives options to all of the zones. Other zones that choose to can further limit apprenticing in their zones by adopting any one of the options or all of the options. This bill extends the same options as Zones C & E have: 1) to increase the length of time an apprentice must be enrolled in the apprentice program up to a maximum of 5 years; 2) to specify that a sponsor of an apprentice must have held a Class I, Class II or Class III lobster and crab fishing license for at least 5 years; and 3) to require that a person who completed an apprenticeship may enter a particular lobster zone only if the apprentice apprenticed in that zone. There was an amendment clarifying whether or not existing apprentices could be grandfathered under the old rules. Apprentices stay on the waiting list at the ratio they become eligible.
LD 1147 – An Act To Protect Fishing Families – This bill would have authorized the transfer of a commercial lobster license to a family member, but was defeated in both the House and the Senate.
LD 1209 – Resolve, To Create the Task Force To Study Commercial Lobster Fishing in Offshore Waters – This bill was killed.
LD 1231 – An Act To Require Recreational Lobster Fishing License Holders To Participate in Current Conservation Efforts of the Commercial Lobster Industry – This bill would have subjected the noncommercial lobster license hold to the same limited entry requirements as the commercial lobster license holder. This bill was killed.
LD 1421 – An Act To Create a Nonresident Lobster and Crab Fishing License – This bill creates four new types of lobster licenses: Nonresident Class I, nonresident Class II, nonresident Class III and a nonresident apprentice. These individuals would have to meet the same requirements of the apprenticeship program and would have to go on the waiting list. This bill was passed unanimously by the Marine Resources Committee. It has not gone before the full legislature. The license will be six times the multiplier price. This license does not apply to Maine residents.
This stems from the Privileges & Immunities Clause – Basically you should be able to pursue your livelihood in the United States and not be restricted to the states.
A question was asked whether this bill only applies to US citizens. What about Canadians?
LD 1510 – An Act To Amend the Lobster Fishing Laws of Maine – This bill had 8 components, which were all passed by the full legislature.
- Provides a definition of “full-time student” to be used to determine eligibility for a lobster license.
- It amends the trap tag program to remove the December 31, 2005 repeal on the buildup.
- It requires that all zones that a person declares on a license application be on that person’s license, and states that person may not place any traps in a zone that is not identified on that person’s license. It also states that the number of trap tags sold will be used to determine the majority of a person’s traps rather than the number of traps fished.
- When a Lobster Zone proposes to change an established exit ratio, Lobster Zone Councils may propose to the Commissioner a provision to allow certain individuals to enter the zone in accordance with the previously existing exit ratio.
- It allows reimbursement for travel expenses to the lobster research, education and development board members for board meetings.
- It allows persons registered to Monhegan to work as crew members outside Monhegan.
- Amends the wholesale seafood license with lobster permit to prevent individuals from possessing or transporting lobster they have taken unless they possess a Class I, II or III or student lobster license.
- It amends the lobster tail permit to allow the processing of only whole lobster tails and not portions.
An amendment to this bill would allow a zone council to recommend that individuals who have completed 92% of the apprenticeship requirements at the time the zone closes to be grandfathered in, so that they could enter the zone upon completion, without being subject to the ratio.
b. Continued Lobster Effort Discussion (Commissioner Lapointe)
Commissioner Lapointe referred to a handout in the packets entitled “Continued Maine Lobster Effort Discussion”. DMR staff got together and came up with some draft issues resulting from the effort report that was discussed at the March LAC meeting. We need to have an effort reduction plan initiated in the near future.
There were some basic principles expressed during many of the lobster industry meetings that DMR agrees should form the basis of effort reduction in Maine. This handout shows a draft proposal, which includes four broad controversial categories, narrowing the focus of things we’ve discussed in the past.
A question was asked on how much advice and consent will be taken from LAC? Last September, effort reduction was just for discussion purposes. One representative stated that the LAC hasn’t been the advisory board that it should be. Are the LAC reps just the first ones that get to back and tell the zones about this plan? What things should be added or removed are still be determined. Just because something is difficult doesn’t mean we throw it away.
Another member explained that ideas are still coming from the fleet too. Those ideas are still working their way up to discuss them. Hesitant to move too quickly.
As a zone, Zone E proposed something to the legislature, but it didn’t pass. Can Zone E bring it back again and see if it works? It shows the zones contributing to reduction. We can’t wait for the perfect list. Let’s flesh these things out and bring them back to the LAC. There are statewide issues, like counting the students in the exit ratio.
We need to look at the issues critically, while looking at constitutional issues too.
One member stated that this list looks like housekeeping. These little things combined might help a little bit.
Members stated other items missing from this list:
· Need to address the ability to come into the system right now
· Part time vs. full time
· Latent license
· Pigeon hole where people are right now and get a true snapshot
· If you start putting out plans to reduce effort, the big guys will take the hit and redistribute
· Need to tighten up licenses; Deemed inactive if they are not fishing it
· People that are currently in the system don’t have to go through the apprentice program because they already hold a license, but don’t fish it
One member asked if the Department would change its mind about targets of 30% reduction from 1997 license and tag numbers. We used to have 2 states of Maine, now we have 7 states of Maine. Zone F went down 17%; they only have 13% left to go. That’s not the case in Zone A.
The reduction in tags is in regulation. The Department is willing to discuss these targets, but we need to be careful. If we change to a 20% reduction, there may be other unknown consequences. The tag issue is our primary concern as licenses appear to have peaked.
How can you take any traps from a fisherman, but let another license holder in? You take away from one and give to another? There are fishermen admittedly fishing the 880 tags. Taking those away will take some out of the water.
There are currently 3.2 million tags sold with a potential of 4.8 million tags in the water. The Department estimates that 60-66% or 1.8 million are being fished. Our effort reduction goal is traps being fished, not tags purchased. The LAC reps stated that we don’t need to be talking about traps taken out of the water, but need to protect the increase in effort. The Commissioner explained that people say we need to reduce effort, not cap it. Protect the future, not just the occurring participant.
There will be many apprentices on the waiting list if we add students to the waiting list. For Zone D, if 40 people go out under the 5:1 exit ratio, 8 people would come in. Including, let’s say, 25 students into the ratio at 1:1 that would leave 15 people at the 5:1 ratio. That’s 3 new people coming in.
A rep asked how we can reduce effort if we don’t know about the redistribution of effort. If you start taking traps out of the water, how is that not redistribution? The Commissioner explained that we are proposing that people that have 800 are not touched, but new people coming in would come in at a max of 600. None of this will happen over night. This isn’t touching the people right now that have built down.
P. Eaton agrees with much of the Department’s and John Butler’s proposals. Leave those at 800 tags for now, but the new people entering the fishery come in at a maximum of 600. If you want to reduce effort, the only way to do that is to freeze licenses.
D. MacDonald stated that we’re ahead of ourselves. We need to define effort first. Once effort is defined, then we need to send back to the scientific community of DMR. Once you have numbers to work with, then you can decide.
One rep stated that he was totally against mandatory logbooks. Believes that it infringes on their rights. In the groundfishing industry, it turned into rolling closures. If 10 lobsters come out of the water, what does it matter if I have 2 and he has 8? The dealer already submits information.
Carl explained that Fisherman A and Fisherman B might each have 600 tags, but one might fish 10 tags. Because of mandatory reporting, we have the total amount. It gives us more information than what we have now. Is it 80% of lobsters coming from 20 fishermen or 20% of lobsters coming from 80 fishermen? The lack of information has been used against fishermen.
The Commissioner’s recommendation is for staff to continue working on this. What happens if you, let’s say, take students 150 traps down to 100? Elimination of 10% replacement tags can be done in house. The rest of these options would go before the legislature. They merit expansion.
What if you’re not from a fishing family? How do you get in? The students should go on list with apprentices.
Downeast doesn’t have anything else to do. Other parts of the state have access to shore jobs.
Bait is scarce. If you cut them back to 600, they’ll haul them more. Why not add Saturday closed periods and cut weekends altogether? Since Maine is looking at traps in the water, it would go a long way with the ASMFC to get a business plan lined up.
B. Baines would be in favor of logbooks if they would be a tool to prove a person is a full time fisherman. D. Miller stated that the group he has spoken with is not in favor. D. Rice explained that if we don’t do something, we’ll get black boxes. The threat of mandatory reporting is definitely out there. C. Sargent stated that the black box is simply a financial burden. You can write anything you want and guys will skew the data. Kathleen Billings already has another program in place. C. Wilson expressed that he thought it was a mistake to vote down logbooks. They would also address trip reporting.
Other ideas for effort reduction:
· Moratorium on weekend hauling - If the state initiated it, it might happen. However, it was mentioned that if the traps are in the water, they are still fishing whether you’re pulling them up or not. It was a suggestion of addressing the bait issue.
· Zone G wants the Sunday law extended May through October. They would have gone a month either way probably. Some not in favor. Wanted an open season from daylight to dark and take Sundays off. If a fisherman wants to work until 4 on Saturday, he should be able to. D. MacDonald suggested that Carl plug this into the models to see if days cut back matters.
· Two boat issue – Captain licensed on one boat and sterns on another.
· Work on a plan to remove latent licenses. It’s a huge problem. We cannot deal with any kind of reduction until it’s addressed. A tiered license would prove that.
· Have a control date for landings.
· Capping tags.
· Transferability – keep state policy and now allow.
· Latent license – people that haven’t fished and tiered license.
· Students on waiting list.
· Retraining program.
· Zone D suggested using tags and licenses to be used with exit ratio. Zone D fisherman showed an example of 611 people in the buildup program with 61,000 tags. 48 people going out and 13,000 tags going out equates to substantial tags coming in and hardly any going out. This addresses ratio and distribution. Freeze tags for each license holder from a control date. Students under 18 go on waiting list. Retire tags at 50% conservation. For example: 13,000 tags retired. 6,500 automatically retired forever and the 6,500 distributed to 10 apprentices, 300 each and remaining people in buildup program get the rest equally. If there are 611 people, that’s about 5 tags a piece. Doesn’t affect people at 800, or people happy at 500-600. It affects buildup.
· Could be a price on tags, money generated for department.
· Allow each zone to try something and then monitor success in each zone. It would be the least offensive and every zone has its own issue. Zone E has a suggestion, John Butler has a plan and Zone D has a plan.
If there is a moratorium on licenses, would there be grandfathering for the existing apprentices?
J. Butler stated that for conservation to be effective, it has to be equal among the people. If you don’t keep these two things in mind, you’ll have this discussion again. This is a further refinement of controlled entry, not limited entry. These are key no matter whose effort control plan.
1. Look to find some way of keeping the number of licenses constant; and
2. Look at some way to keep tags constant or have a mechanism to see decrease over time.A. Morley of Zone E stated I don’t want to tell a guy in another zone how to fish. Do all the proposals go to the legislature? Is it across the board? It needs to be done on a zone basis. Zones are not the same. We’re all lobstermen and commercial fishermen. Does it have to be a blanket thing that goes to legislature?
After much discussion, the LAC voted on the specific draft proposals and possible future discussions regarding changes to the current lobster licensing system. Members expressed that it was difficult to vote on these issues not knowing the amount of effort reduction would actually come of these actions and in what time frame.
Changes to the Student License:
All in Favor Maintain availability of student license to individuals from ages 8-22 who are full time students.
All in Favor Lower the number of traps that are allowed under a student license (down from 150).
All in Favor When calculating the yearly entry for a zone, first deduct the number of individuals who transitioned from a student license to a commercial license, before calculating new entrants. (For example, if 16 people did not renew their licenses, and 8 students completed the apprentice program and transitioned to a commercial license, the calculation for new entrants would be first 16-8=8, and then the zone ratio applied to the remaining 8 slots. If the ratio was 2:1, 4 apprentices would be allowed in off of the waiting list.)
All in Favor Make 18 the minimum age to be issued a Class I, II or III license, and require high school graduation or GED as eligibility criteria.
7 in favor; 1 opposed Must complete new requirements proposed under changes to Apprentice Program. (Doesn’t affect effort)
Changes to Class I, II, III Licenses:
4 in favor; 4 opposed Trap limit for existing license holders will remain at 800 tags (600 for Zone E; 600 for Monhegan; 475 for Swans Island). New entrants (those obtaining Class I, II or III licenses after some future date) will be subject to a slower buildup (something less than 100) to a maximum of 500-600 tags.
All Licenses:
All in favor Eliminate 10% replacement tag policy (DMR is currently developing a statewide policy for the local distribution of replacement tags, which could eventually take the place of the 10% regulation currently in effect.)
Apprentice Program:
No vote taken Expand current apprentice program to require safety, education and competency components.
Other Items for Further Research and Discussion:
All opposed Mandatory logbooks (To better monitor the health and value of the lobster resource and fishery.)
5 in favor; 3 opposed Tiered Licenses (Division based on full time/part time, or % of income derived from fishing, or some other distinction. Mechanism must exist to move from one license category to the other.)
Tabled Revise entry into lobster fishery so that ratio addresses tags, rather than licenses.
No vote taken Any unresolved issues from changes to the student license.
4 in favor; 4 opposed Moratorium on licenses and tags. (Comments: Perhaps have a 2-year sunset. Zones D & G in favor. Zone C – small islands could have a problem.)
No vote taken Overall cap on licenses and tags
c. Whale Regulation Update (Terry Stockwell)
Maine submitted comments on the six Alternatives outlined in the Draft Environmental Impact Statement. A number of concerns were brought forward. 1) The role of fishing gear entanglements in the overall large whale mortality estimates - ship strikes, water pollution/water quality are other mortality factors. 2) Strong concern for the proposed requirements to use sinking/neutrally buoyant groundlines in areas of rocky/tidal habitat. 3) Concern for the rate at which new gear requirements are implemented. 4) Support for the elimination of DAM, and 5) Concern for the complete lack of Canadian large whale take reduction efforts.
As a result, DMR supports Alternative 5, where there is no prohibition of floating groundline and DAM will be eliminated.
The rulemaking timetable is supposed to be quick. NMFS anticipates a proposed set of rules before summer, with the final rule expected to be in place for implementation about a year from now.
DMR is close to hiring a new gear specialist and will be working with you on gear modification ideas.
Information from the foraging workshop will be overlaid with whale sightings data to help identify where the whales are feeding.
DMR has finally received a Section 6 (of the Endangered Species Act) Cooperative Agreement with the feds. This agreement shares the responsibility of protecting whales with the feds – greatly leveraging our authorities and making us eligible to apply for additional federal funding.
5. New Business
a. Seed Lobster Fund Discussion (Carl Wilson)
Carl Wilson distributed a handout to explain simplifying the Seed Lobster Fund RFP process. For consideration: Dedicate $40,000 to ongoing non-competitive monitoring programs. Dedicate $60,000 to one or two specific topics to be investigated at a higher level of funding than previous years.
The Seed Lobster Fund Sub-Committee was defined: Dan Miller, Larry Knapp, Jon Carter and Dana Rice. Carl will be initiating a conference call next week, which will also include Linda Mercer and Terry Stockwell.
The DMR Research Priorities need to be renewed at this point.
DMR would like to keep a commitment to monitoring.
Zone E bought lobsters from their own dealers and most acclimated to that environment.
For next year’s female lobster purchase and liberation, Zone A would like DMR to work with dealers to see if they’ll submit bids for larger lobsters (1-1/2 lbs and up).
6. Reports and Updates
- DMR Updates
Rulemaking – Zone G has adopted the 5 to 1 exit ratio. The Monhegan season close time rule has been repealed. This was obsolete and out of date in regulation, pertaining to the time of open and closed seasons in the Monhegan Lobster Conservation area. The DMR Advisory Council will be voting on Zone A’s 3:1 exit ratio at their June meeting.
Patrol Update – Response to complaints may be down since Marine Patrol personnel is down 10 officers. Since our last meeting we’ve hired a new boat captain for the Guardian in Rockland. A new officer for the Friendship/Cushing patrol has also been hired.
There is a “by invitation only” meeting scheduled for next week between mobile gear fishermen/ shrimp draggers and lobstermen.
A new boat for the gray zone area (Downeast) should be in place around June 1.
St. Jon Cornish was just promoted to Lieutenant for the Division 1 office. Sgt. Paul Joyce will transfer to Section 2 covering from Portland to Bath.
Jim Henderson suggested that $5-10 be added on to the application fee. This money would be dedicated to Marine Patrol (equipment, personnel, etc.). Bring back to your zones and provide some feedback for LAC.
b. Zone/Industry Issues - Summaries
Zone A J. Drouin reported that the last Zone A meeting was on March 29. Lobster effort and rulemaking for the exit ratio were the primary discussion items.
Zone B A Zone B representative was not present at the meeting.
Zone C D. MacDonald stated that Zone C did not have a quorum at their last meeting on March 21, 2005.
Zone D D. Miller explained that Zone D signed their updated Bylaws and discussed local issues at their last Zone D meeting on April 12, 2005.
Zone E L. Knapp reported that Zone E met on March 23, 2005. Kristen Millar gave an update on the Maine Lobster Promotion Council. She said that the cost of lobsters was up, but the price back to the boat fisherman is down. Maine needs to look at new processing methods here in Maine that are less labor intensive, i.e., vacuuming meat out of the lobsters. Maybe lobstering could buy in to this concept and invest in local processors.
Zone F F. Strout stated that the next Zone F meeting is scheduled for May 31.
Zone G P. Eaton explained that Zone G has been quiet. Their next meeting is scheduled for June 7 in Saco.
Other
A question was asked about the requirement of having a non-commercial lobster license holder on this council. There are currently 3 non-zone council members. When one of the 3 non-zone lobstermen terms out, it will have to be replaced with a non-commercial lobster license holder.
Another question was asked about grandfathering apprentices at the ratio they came in at. Any zone adopting a ratio for the first time, the zone council can vote if the apprentices have the option of being exempt from the waiting list if they have completed 92% of their days and hours. There is a statewide requirement for zones changing their ratio to be allowed to enter at the prior ratio.
7. Set Next Meeting Date and Agenda
Agenda for next meeting: Science Meeting
The date of the next Lobster Advisory Council meeting was set for Wednesday, June 15, 2005 at 5:00 p.m. at the Department of Human Services on Civic Center Drive in Augusta.
MOTION: (B. Baines and C. Sargent) To adjourn. Unanimous.
The meeting adjourned at 8:40 p.m.